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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is

Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 909 Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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"I can't say I'm pessimistic, we have just started ... I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic even though I get frustrated too sometimes, it's natural.",
said President Christofias. |
http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2008/10/06/europe/OUKWD-UK-CYPRUS-TALKS.php[/quote]
On optimism and pessimism a Turkish Cypriot friend wrote me an email the other day and among other thing he said:
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according to me, there is not any hope again!
this is because of the fact that the negotiations are not between turkishcypriots and greekcypriots, it is indeed between turkey and greekcypriots..
therefore talat, who is the leader of t/c, is just representing turkey at that table and he is just behaving according to the orders coming from turkey.
hence according to me, there will be no solution at the end.
i do believe this also because i know that occupiers never goes back willingly.. they might go back under two conditions.. either like the way they came or by strong and effective international pressure on them.
i didn't see any pressure upto now, so i don't believe that i will see any solution soon. |
He continued saying that settlers outnumber Turkish Cypriots therefore any referendum will not be reflective to Turkish Cypriot wants. |
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city
Site Admin

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3369 Location: Larnaca area
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If Talat and Christofias do not stop making strange statements in public and accuse each other of whatever, they will get nowhere! They should stick to the news blackout that has been agreed and stop trying to please their respective parties/communities/politicians.
If they really want to reach a settlement they will have to live with the fact that they can not please everybody. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: Canada
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CYPRUS LEADERS AGREE TO MEET ON A WEEKLY BASIS
President Mehmet Ali Talat and the Leader of the Greek Cypriot Administration Demetris Christofias have agreed on a change in the procedure of full-fledged peace talks.
From now on, the two leaders will meet on a weekly basis to keep the momentum of the peace process going.
Next meeting between Talat and Christofias will come on Monday.
The agreement came during today’s meeting between the two leaders which took place at the UN protected area in Lefkosa.
The meeting lasted for nearly three and a half hours where the two leaders had a private meeting for an hour.
Upon the request by Talat and Christofias, the UN Special Advisor for Cyprus Alexander Downer, who was also present at the meeting, made a short statement about today’s progress.
Downer said the leaders have achieved progress on the issue of federal governance and they also began discussions on the structure of the federal executive.
The two sides will continue their discussions on Monday with their proposals prepared on relevant issues, he said.
The next issue awaiting the negotiations agenda is the property issue- one of the most critical core issues of a comprehensive settlement- once the current issues of governance and power-sharing are closed.
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bayrak |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is

Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 909 Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| city wrote: |
If Talat and Christofias do not stop making strange statements in public and accuse each other of whatever, they will get nowhere! They should stick to the news blackout that has been agreed and stop trying to please their respective parties/communities/politicians.
If they really want to reach a settlement they will have to live with the fact that they can not please everybody. |
Can you please give me an example of a strange comment made by Christofias? |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: Canada
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http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/newsroom/latest-news/?view=PressR&id=7455125
Cancellation of military exercises in Cyprus (13/10/2008)
Minister for Europe, Caroline Flint, commented on the decision by leaders in Cyprus to cancel military exercises and parades. She commented that this was a 'very positive development'.
She said:
'I applaud the decision of the two leaders in Cyprus to cancel the military exercises and parades that were due to take place later this month, and in November. This a very positive development which shows what can be achieved through trust and co-operation. I encourage the leaders to continue to conduct negotiations in the same constructive manner'.
Notes for Editors
UKinCyprus.fco.gov.uk |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: Canada
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13 October 2008 – The Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot leaders made progress today in talks focusing on the issue of the presidency and vice-presidency in a new power-sharing government, the top United Nations envoy to Cyprus told journalists.
Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias and Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat resumed discussions in Nicosia on the subject of the executive branch of the joint government as part of their full-fledged negotiations aimed at reaching a comprehensive settlement to the long-running problem on the Mediterranean island.
On Thursday, the representatives of the two parties will meet with experts under the sponsorship of the UN for further discussions on the issue before the leaders meet again a week on Wednesday to continue negotiations on the presidency and vice-presidency.
“There is a growing understanding between the tow sides of their positions, and as time goes on, of course, the gaps are going to narrow,” Alexander Downer, the Secretary-General’s Special Adviser on Cyprus, told the press in the UN-protected area of Nicosia.
“It’s going to take a long time and it’s going to be a difficult negotiation. But what you have here is a political will, and the political will is very good,” he added.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=28547&Cr=cyprus&Cr1= |
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city
Site Admin

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3369 Location: Larnaca area
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
| city wrote: |
If Talat and Christofias do not stop making strange statements in public and accuse each other of whatever, they will get nowhere! They should stick to the news blackout that has been agreed and stop trying to please their respective parties/communities/politicians.
If they really want to reach a settlement they will have to live with the fact that they can not please everybody. |
Can you please give me an example of a strange comment made by Christofias? |
Just now out of memory (and of course I don't know the original Greek wording) he said that Talat was saying one thing in the talks and saying something else in public. This is not very helpful in building trust and understanding.
What I generally meant was that they should refrain from any comments, cause this is fueling the opposition and the not always friendly media on both sides that will twist every word in their mouth. And this very media has a huge influence on the public opinion as we so well know.
The process is difficult enough as it is. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is

Joined: 20 Feb 2006 Posts: 909 Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| city wrote: |
| stavrizatz wrote: |
| city wrote: |
If Talat and Christofias do not stop making strange statements in public and accuse each other of whatever, they will get nowhere! They should stick to the news blackout that has been agreed and stop trying to please their respective parties/communities/politicians.
If they really want to reach a settlement they will have to live with the fact that they can not please everybody. |
Can you please give me an example of a strange comment made by Christofias? |
Just now out of memory (and of course I don't know the original Greek wording) he said that Talat was saying one thing in the talks and saying something else in public. This is not very helpful in building trust and understanding.
What I generally meant was that they should refrain from any comments, cause this is fueling the opposition and the not always friendly media on both sides that will twist every word in their mouth. And this very media has a huge influence on the public opinion as we so well know.
The process is difficult enough as it is. |
When someone dares to say the truth as it is, I do not blame him. Even pro-unification Turkish Cypriots are frustrated with Talat's attitude. He tells one thing to Turkish Cypriots, another to Greek Cypriots and another to his boss in Ankara! With Greek Cypriots he will say we want peace, with Turkish Cypriots he will say we want peace and he will blame Greek Cypriots for the current situation and with Turkey he will say we have two countries in Cyprus!
Christofias tells Turkish Cypriots, Greek Cypriots and everyone else in the world the same things with exception when he addresses the Greek Cypriot idealists, he is scared to reject his national identity, and is scared to deny that Cyprus is Greek. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: Canada
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TALAT SAYS SECURITY AND POLITICAL EQUALITY A ‘MUST’
President Mehmet Ali Talat has said that the Turkish Cypriot Side is pursuing a solution that will ensure the safety of Turkish Cypriots.
The President returned to the Republic last night following a two day visit to Istanbul, Turkey.
Within the framework of his contacts in Istanbul, the President gave a conference on the Cyprus Problem as the Galatasaray University.
Addressing the conference, President Mehmet Ali Talat said that secessionist policies pursued in North Cyprus until 2003 were wrong and unsustainable.
He said this was only understood after 2003.
The President also said that the roles of the sides and the balances on the island had changed following the Greek Cypriot Administration’s admission into the European Union on the 16th of April 2004 on behalf of the whole island.
Drawing attention to the fact that preparations and work towards restarting negotiations had started just one month after Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias was elected into office, Talat said that 22 decisions had been taken by the technical committees and the working groups had established the two sides’ positions in that short period of time.
Explaining that he had started negotiating the issue of governance and power sharing with the Greek Cypriot leader, the President said that they had reached agreement on several areas regarding the competencies of the federal government but added that the process will continue.
Pointing out that the fundamental principle that must be secured at the negotiations is political equality, President Talat said that the Turkish Cypriot Side was seeking to find a solution that will guarantee and protect the Turkish Cypriots.
Responding to questions as to whether the presence of Turkish troops on the island had been discussed with the Greek Cypriot leader, Talat replied “We haven’t discussed this issue in any way. The issue is a matter that will be taken up within the framework of the treaties of guarantee and alliance and is at bottom of our agenda.”
Replying to another question on migrants from Turkey, Talat said that everyone who settled in Cyprus from Turkey were citizens of Cyprus and subject to the same treatment.
“This issue is not even subject to discussion” he added.
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bayrak
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repulsewarrior
Deputy

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: Canada
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Aides lay ground for talks
TOP AIDES to the leaders of both sides will come together tomorrow to prepare the ground for the next round of Cyprus talks.
Presidential Commissioner George Iacovou said his meeting with Ozdil Nami, senior aide to Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat, would revolve around the powers of the federal government and of the executive.
President Christofias’ top advisor declined to comment on the progress of negotiations so far. It was too early to offer an assessment of the process, he said, although a clearer picture might emerge after the two sides closed the chapter on governance.
Governance and power-sharing in the new state is the first item on the talks’ agenda; it will be followed by the even thornier issue of properties.
“We must be cautiously optimistic,” remarked Iacovou.
He said attention should be paid not so much on public statements on the talks by Turkish Cypriots, but rather on what the Turkish Cypriot side is saying at the negotiating table.
“As for us, we shall continue our struggle for a solution, and I hope our goodwill is contagious and spreads to our Turkish Cypriot interlocutors,” he said.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008 |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: Canada
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repulsewarrior
Deputy

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: Canada
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The silver lining behind the mistrust
(archive article - Saturday, November 1, 2008)
RESEARCH conducted by the Centre for European Policy Studies has found that Greek and Turkish Cypriots are remarkably similar in their attitudes, values and aspirations.
“Cypriots share, as citizens, many important similarities in terms of their political values and aspirations, with differences between them appearing to be rooted more in their different contexts and historical trajectories than in fundamental divergences in values and ideologies,” the report concluded.
On the surface, this would seem to be encouraging for a common future: from the moment we share the same basic values and priorities in life, it should not be that difficult to function in a common society.
The problem is that within the context of a major political/ethnic division, those shared values are more likely to drive us apart than bring us together.
The vast majority of both Greek and Turkish Cypriots attach prime importance to security and tradition, most view themselves as religious, they shun adventure, and place little store on imagination, creativity and altruism. In other words, both are deeply conservative, risk-averse societies.
In many ways, this stands us in good stead, ensuring both social and economic stability (indeed our financial conservatism may well protect us from the worst effects of the current recession). But in terms of resolving the Cyprus problem, it is a recipe for continuation of the status quo. Imagination and risk are precisely what we need if we are to reunite the island after so many years of separation and mistrust. At some stage, we will have to take a leap of faith, grit our teeth and sign a blank cheque for the future. Indeed, if we want our lives to come clad in cast-iron guarantees, then we should forget about striving for a solution that will invariably bring considerable change and uncertainty.
This pessimistic scenario is further reinforced by another shared trait: our lack of trust. Over 95 per cent on both sides trust only their most immediate family and a similar proportion are constantly on their guard for people out to cheat them. If this is true within our own communities, then what hope do we he have in terms of trusting people for so long (and in many cases still) portrayed as our enemies?
Indeed, the same survey reported widespread gloom over the prospects for reunification, with only 18 per cent of Greek Cypriots and 13 per cent of Turkish Cypriots hopeful for a solution through the current peace process.
But while our shared fear of the risky unknown is unlikely to deliver us a solution, it does have one very big advantage: nearly 90 per cent on each side are “absolutely opposed to the idea of ‘solving’ the conflict through armed struggle”, and for that we should be grateful.
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008 |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: Canada
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Small steps will make a big difference
By Erol Kaymak, Alexandros Lordos and Nathalie Tocci
(archive article - Sunday, November 9, 2008)
IN THE editorial (‘The silver lining behind the mistrust’, Cyprus Mail, November 1) on Building Confidence in Peace, the first public opinion survey in Cyprus carried out by the Centre for European Policy Studies (CEPS), the Cyprus Mail chose to reflect on the book’s results through a physical metaphor, the proverbial ‘silver lining’.
That bad news exists is the less newsworthy part of our story. If the glass were entirely full, there wouldn’t be a “Cyprus problem” to talk about. The newsworthy part of our survey is precisely that ominous storm clouds may be followed by more clement conditions.
The silver lining in our results not only lies in the fact that in Cyprus there is little appetite for violence or there is readiness to accept past mistakes and revise historical narratives. The silver lining lies also in the fact that Cypriots appear willing to act and embark on concrete measures in order to fill the glass further and enhance prospects for a comprehensive settlement.
It is in this context that CEPS launched this project investigating, through successive polls, what Cypriots think of each other, of the peace process and of possible solutions to the conflict.
The results of the first survey conducted simultaneously in the northern and southern parts of the island in April-May 2008 are presented in Building Confidence in Peace. The book begins by exploring who the Cypriots are and what their political values and attitudes are.
The picture that emerges – as the Cyprus Mail editorial highlights – is a mixed one, with a readiness to compromise, a rejection of violence or a convergence on a bizonal and bicomunal federal solution being counterbalanced by attitudes of mistrust, risk aversion or divergence on other elements of a comprehensive settlement.
Yet our study also shows that while mistrustful, risk averse and only several issues divergent, people in Cyprus advocate action to overcome inertia and blockage. This is critical for a negotiation process that is meant to be ‘Cypriot’ and so less reliant on third party mediation than previous attempts to cut the Gordian Knot that is the Cyprus problem.
Hence, the point of our book was to advocate concrete measures, which meet the consent of the two communities, in order to build confidence in the future.
On the grounds of these results a double need emerges starkly. First, it is essential to act, in parallel to the negotiating process, to raise public confidence in the peace process and in each side, in order to ensure that as and when an agreement is reached, the people will go along with it and make its ratification and implementation a success.
Second, precisely because of persistent areas of divergence, a set of confidence-building measures (CBMs) could be envisaged to help narrow the gaps separating the two communities.
This does not entail attention being shifted from comprehensive settlement negotiations to CBMs, a strategy that has often either intended to or has had the effect of sinking negotiations over a comprehensive settlement.
In contrast, unilateral CBMs or non-controversial CBMs oriented towards inter-societal reconciliation may have a very positive impact and may add momentum to the peace process within a strategic context of renewed negotiations.
Our survey revealed a first set of CBMs that could be easily agreed and implemented in so far as they meet wide support and little resistance from both communities. These include:
l Jointly fighting organised crime on the island
l Joint participation in international sporting events, drawing upon the formulas devised by other countries bedevilled by problems of contested sovereignty and recognition
l Joint protection of each community’s cultural heritage
l Establishing a social reconciliation committee
l Supporting Turkish Cypriot-EU harmonisation
l Renovating and making joint use of buildings in the Buffer Zone near the Ledra Street/Lokmaci crossing.
Alongside this, we note strong convergence on the theme that the negotiations should be supplemented by fact-finding activities, many of which could be encouraged, supported by or organised by the EU. These include:
l Conduct an analysis of threats and threat perceptions to serve as a foundation for further negotiations around the security issue.
l Produce an economic development plan for post-settlement Cyprus
l Conduct an internationally monitored Cyprus-wide census of all properties – Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot – affected by the conflict in order to assess their current use and condition
l Engage in consultations with individuals affected by the property issue, to identify their preferences and priorities regarding the resolution of their property claims
l Conduct an internationally monitored population census, on both sides of the Green Line, as a foundation for further negotiations around the issues of citizenship and immigration
A second category of CBMs, which we define as more challenging, would be those which enjoy narrow majority support in both communities, while also meeting resistance from sizeable minorities in either one or both, and which would thus require careful packaging and negotiation between the leaderships.
Yet as in the case of the first set of CBMs, these measures could also be pursued alongside the peace process aimed at reaching a comprehensive agreement. These include:
l Including the Turkish Cypriots in the EU customs union, hence contributing to inter-communal trade and common enterprises
l Including Turkish Cypriot higher education institutions into the European higher education system, while creating joint academic institutions where Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriots can work together
l Exploring forms of transitional justice.
Finally, there are other important yet far more contested CBMs to be considered and worked on, including questions such as direct trade, direct flights and Varosha.
Given the divisive nature of these issues, we suggest that these measures be discussed within both communities in order to prepare the ground for future agreement. However, in the current political context, these measures should probably not be the subject of negotiations between the leaderships in so far as within a comprehensive agreement, all these questions would automatically be resolved.
The story we’d like to tell is therefore an action-oriented one. Cyprus like any other conflict is inevitably ridden by divergences, contestation and mistrust. Yet Cypriots appear keen to reverse these realities by engaging in a series of concrete measures that if pursued alongside the ongoing negotiation process would greatly enhance its chances of success.
n Erol Kaymak, Alexandros Lordos and Nathalie Tocci are the authors of Building Confidence in Peace, which is available for free download from the Centre for European Policy Studies website: http://shop.ceps.eu
Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008 |
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city
Site Admin

Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3369 Location: Larnaca area
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repulsewarrior
Deputy

Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1734 Location: Canada
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| i know city, but i have posted these articles here as a matter of record. i hope this thread will be interesting, and valuable in a year, (or two) as a chronological description of the present negociation process. also, it would not surprise me if some of the readers enjoy the thread much like they enjoy a newspaper. |
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