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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus
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After the Turkish Cypriots declared the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (KKTC) -- an independent state in the northern territories of Cyprus -- on Nov. 15, 1983, UN Secretary-General Javier Pérez de Cuéllar without delay called the Security Council for an urgent and special meeting.
Having heard the statement of the foreign minister of the Greek Cypriot administration, at its 2,500th meeting the Security Council adopted the infamous resolution filed as UN Resolution 541 (1983) on Nov. 18, 1983.
Since then the KKTC has been considered legally invalid by the UN member states, and the Turkish Cypriots have suffered under unjust political, economic, cultural, social, sporting and trade embargoes.
Although the Turkish Cypriots are now considered legal citizens of the EU, they experience a life similar to one in an open prison. The Greek Cypriots are trying their best, by pushing EU rules and regulations along with the notorious UN resolution, to block the efforts of the UK government to secure permission for direct flights from the KKTC’s Ercan Airport to the UK.
The obstructive attitude and political pressure of the Greek Cypriots can be seen everywhere. All the political, economic, cultural, social, sporting and trade operations of Turkish Cypriots are blocked.
Even the universities in the KKTC, numbering seven, are left out of the EU’s Bologna process -- for education and training -- because of this resolution and the efforts of the Greek Cypriot administration.
Are this resolution and the others related to Turkish Cypriots still valid? I may ask the same question in another form: Is this resolution valid for the KKTC and invalid for the Greek Cypriot administration?
When this notorious resolution is read very carefully, it can be clearly understood that
a -- In the third paragraph of the introduction it states that the declaration of independence is incompatible with the 1960 treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee;
b -- Item 6 calls upon all states to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus.
In addition to this UN Security Council resolution the UN General Assembly Resolution 37/253 (1983) also reiterates the UN member states full support for the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity, unity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus.
The Greek Cypriot administration, after entering the EU on May 1, 2004, lost the non-alignment stated in the 1960 treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus.
And on top of this while joining the EU the Greek Cypriot administration did not get the approval of the Turkish Cypriots, as mentioned in Resolution 541, referring to the 1960 Constituency of the Republic of Cyprus.
Due to these two solid reasons both resolutions 541 (1983) and 37/253 are no longer valid; they should be declared null and void or dead letters.
Actually it is quite absurd that while Item 6 of Resolution 541 calls upon all states to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus and that the declaration of independence of KKTC is incompatible with the 1960 treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee, it called on nobody to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus when the Greek Cypriot administration joined the EU on May 1, 2004, contravening the non-alignment feature stated in the 1960 treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee.
Both resolutions 541 (1983) and 37/253 should be declared dead letters by UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon as soon as possible.
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=111583 |
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100%cypriot
Warnings : 4
Ministerial
Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 2181
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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This is nonsense and purely for internal consumption . It can be attacked from various angles such as:
1- Establishment of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus was and still is against the 1960 agreements regardless of what the situation is today.
2- Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus does not become legal just because Republic of Cyprus joined to the EU. The two are totally irrelevant.
3- By "non-alignment" in 1960 agreements, it was meant that Cyprus would not align only with Greece or only with Turkey. Joining to the EU doesn't make Cyprus aligned with only Greece but rather whole Europe. Besides, previous Turkish governments (Tansu Ciller and Ecevit) did agree with Greek Cypriot entry into the EU. That's how Turkey became a member state, otherwise Greece would have never allowed Turkey to be a member.
4- Majority of Turkish Cypriots do support Cyprus in the EU and many currently enjoy traveling, working and studying in Europe due to Cyprus EU membership. So Cyprus's EU membership cannot be used in any shape or form in legalizing Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.
And I'm sure there are more obvious ways to refute this author's claims.
There is one way however to challenge the validity of the "Republic of Cyprus" in the south. That is by demanding our rights in the Republic of Cyprus and see if Greek Cypriots are ready to share the power with us. I know there are some Turkish Cypriots doing this already and I'm very curious to know what kind of a response they'll get from the EHRC. If EHRC agrees with them that it's unconstitutional for Greek Cypriots to deny Turkish Cypriots from exercising their rights within the Republic of Cyprus, and if Greek Cypriots still deny our rights in the Republic of Cyprus (which is unlikely), then we have a solid case for a seperate entity in the north. Other than this, I don't see how Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus can ever be legal unless the US goes crazy and recognizes Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus one day (which is very unlikely unless we give half of the north to the US as military bases or something  ) |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| Since then the KKTC has been considered legally invalid by the UN member states, and the Turkish Cypriots have suffered under unjust political, economic, cultural, social, sporting and trade embargoes. |
What is so unfair? Turkish Cypriots have the choice to trade through the legal ports of Cyprus or Turkey. But no, they (by they I don't mean ordinary people, but whoever is in power) want to trade under the name of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and participate in sporting events as Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus etc. My point is that Turkish Cypriots don't suffer from the embargoes but from the stubborn leaders who refuce to accept the other options available because they want to prove the point that Cyprus is two countries.
Also what the hell does he mean by cultural and social restriction. How can he blame the Greek Cypriots for that, really am I so damn that I miss the point? Isn't Turkey who is occupying the North, YES... so!
Non-aligned means not being part of any international coalitions such as NATO, EU etc. I don't think the non-aligned policy was part of the constitution but policy followed by Makarios. Even if it was, the author ignores that countries and people change and progress with time.
Mete wrote:
| Quote: |
| There is one way however to challenge the validity of the "Republic of Cyprus" in the south. That is by demanding our rights in the Republic of Cyprus and see if Greek Cypriots are ready to share the power with us. I know there are some Turkish Cypriots doing this already and I'm very curious to know what kind of a response they'll get from the EHRC. If EHRC agrees with them that it's unconstitutional for Greek Cypriots to deny Turkish Cypriots from exercising their rights within the Republic of Cyprus, and if Greek Cypriots still deny our rights in the Republic of Cyprus (which is unlikely), then we have a solid case for a seperate entity in the north. |
Republic of Cyprus has rights to demand the end of the occupation but at the same time Republic of Cyprus has obligations towards Turkish Cypriots. Turkish Cypriots have my full support in demanding their rights. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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SC resolutions do not die.
only the permanent members can kill them. it is as simple as that |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
Republic of Cyprus has rights to demand the end of the occupation but at the same time Republic of Cyprus has obligations towards Turkish Cypriots. Turkish Cypriots have my full support in demanding their rights.
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Yeah, Republic of Cyprus has that right but why should I punished because Republic of Cyprus cannot end the "occupation"? As long as I am loyal to the Republic of Cyprus, as long as I don't violate somebody else's human rights, there's no reason for my rights to be violated in the Republic of Cyprus just because I happened to be born on the north side of the border, as you also agree. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| Yeah, Republic of Cyprus has that right but why should I punished because Republic of Cyprus cannot end the "occupation"? |
Hey Mete, calm down. In what way are you punished and can you explain to us how is Cyprus "occupying" Cyprus! |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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Hey Mete, calm down. In what way are you punished and can you explain to us how is Cyprus "occupying" Cyprus!
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It's very irritating when you keep saying calm down when I'm pretty calm in our discussions! Now I really need to calm down Anyhow, I'm punished by not being able to exercise my rights within the Republic of Cyprus, i.e. I cannot elect the Turkish Cypriot vice-president and the Turkish Cypriot senate members in the Republic of Cyprus. Neither can I get elected in the Republic of Cyprus for the Turkish Cypriot seats in the Republic of Cyprus. On top of that, I cannot be representated internationally since Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is not internationally recognized and I'm not allowed to reflect my will through the Republic of Cyprus internationally. And the list goes on...
As for the second question, I didn't say Cyprus occupies Cyprus. I said, assuming that we have "occupation" in the north by a foreign country, I shouldn't get punished just because I happen to live under the "occupied" area as long as I don't directly support "occupation", don't you agree? |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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Mete, you have the same rights and possibilities to vote and become elected in the Republic of Cyprus as all other Cypriots have.
The extended community rights, in the Republic of Cyprus, is something that can be claimed by the Turkish Cypriot community, not by Turkish Cypriot individuals. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| It's very irritating when you keep saying calm down when I'm pretty calm in our discussions! Now I really need to calm down |
Sorry mate, sometimes it is hard to judge the emotions of others in writen conversations and last night when I replied was pretty late!
I though you was trying to say that Republic of Cyprus occupied Cyprus and for that you are punished
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| I cannot elect the Turkish Cypriot vice-president and the Turkish Cypriot senate members in the Republic of Cyprus. Neither can I get elected in the Republic of Cyprus for the Turkish Cypriot seats in the Republic of Cyprus. On top of that, I cannot be representated internationally since Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is not internationally recognized and I'm not allowed to reflect my will through the Republic of Cyprus internationally. And the list goes on... |
As pg said, you can vote and be elected if you like ... but I think the conditions that allow Turkish Cypriots to do so should be such to encourage their involvement in the governing bodies. |
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repulsewarrior
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2152
Location: a cypriot in canada
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This is why I believe that every citizen in Cyprus should be represented by two people, one turcophone and one grecophone. I would like to see the leader, our President, whether of one origin or the other, having won on issues, where he sustains a majority of seats in a legislature which has as many seats for one culture as it has for the other.
In a bi-cameral legislature the countervailing power to this Government would be a Lower House voting by consesus, sitting on its comittees, elected by population, it members sitting as independants. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| pg wrote: |
The extended community rights, in the Republic of Cyprus, is something that can be claimed by the Turkish Cypriot community, not by Turkish Cypriot individuals.
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First, I'd like to point out that the entity in the south today is considered by the whole world as the Republic of Cyprus due to its bicommunal constitution and laws. If any of these laws were changed to eliminate the bicommunal nature of the Republic of Cyprus, I'm sure the UN and the world will reconsider if the entity in the south indeed represents all Cypriots. Along the same lines, it doesn't really matter to me that I can get elected and vote among the Greek Cypriot majority today. If Turkish Cypriots simply accepted the majority rule, there wouldn't be a Cyprus problem today (and Cyprus would be like Crete probably). So please let's not use this argument because it really lacks all the essence of the Cyprus problem.
Now, back to your post. I have a few questions:
1- How do you define community vs. individual claim? If 20% of Turkish Cypriots claim their rights in the Republic of Cyprus, would that be a community or an individual claim? How about 40%, 60% or 80% or does it have to be 100% in order to be a considered a community claim?
2- Where does it say in the Republic of Cyprus constitution that a certain percentage of Turkish Cypriots should claim their rights within the Republic of Cyprus in order for some Turkish Cypriots to exercise their rights within the Republic of Cyprus?
3- What does it take for a Turkish Cypriot to claim his/her rights in the Republic of Cyprus? I'm asking this because I feel like my right as a Turkish Cypriot should not depend in any shape or form on somebody else's actions. |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| Mete wrote: |
| pg wrote: |
The extended community rights, in the Republic of Cyprus, is something that can be claimed by the Turkish Cypriot community, not by Turkish Cypriot individuals.
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First, I'd like to point out that the entity in the south today is considered by the whole world as the Republic of Cyprus due to its bicommunal constitution and laws. If any of these laws were changed to eliminate the bicommunal nature of the Republic of Cyprus, I'm sure the UN and the world will reconsider if the entity in the south indeed represents all Cypriots. Along the same lines, it doesn't really matter to me that I can get elected and vote among the Greek Cypriot majority today. If Turkish Cypriots simply accepted the majority rule, there wouldn't be a Cyprus problem today (and Cyprus would be like Crete probably). So please let's not use this argument because it really lacks all the essence of the Cyprus problem.
Now, back to your post. I have a few questions:
1- How do you define community vs. individual claim? If 20% of Turkish Cypriots claim their rights in the Republic of Cyprus, would that be a community or an individual claim? How about 40%, 60% or 80% or does it have to be 100% in order to be a considered a community claim?
2- Where does it say in the Republic of Cyprus constitution that a certain percentage of Turkish Cypriots should claim their rights within the Republic of Cyprus in order for some Turkish Cypriots to exercise their rights within the Republic of Cyprus?
3- What does it take for a Turkish Cypriot to claim his/her rights in the Republic of Cyprus? I'm asking this because I feel like my right as a Turkish Cypriot should not depend in any shape or form on somebody else's actions. |
We all know there is no bland and white here, no exact percentage can be defined. In the same way I think you agree that if there are only 10 Turkish Cypriot voting it is not reasonable that they elect 24 MPs - more than a 1/4 of the parliament.
However, as you say the Republic of Cyprus has a "bi-communal" design. If you consider running for parliament, then what do you run as? Do you run as 'Mete', or as someone able to master the Turkish language, or as a Muslim, or... I do not think so. I think you run as a representative of the Turkish Cypriot community (about 100,000 in 1974), however that community belonging is defined.
In round numbers, 1 Greek Cypriot MP represents about 10,000 Greek Cypriots; and 1 Turkish Cypriot MP represents about 4,000 Turkish Cypriots. If you want to see how many Turkish Cypriot you will represent in parliament then perhaps we should look at these numbers... |
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repulsewarrior
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2152
Location: a cypriot in canada
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| A single party ( thereby having several candidates) running in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus elections, with the platform that it expects to send winning candidates to the Republic of Cyprus to take their place in this legislature, will have significant credibility if enough people choose to vote for these representatives, even if they do not win a majority in any riding, or of the population as a whole. |
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osman85
Villager
Joined: 27 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
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Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Forever ! |
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