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| Will the USA stand back and let Turkey attack Northern Iraq? |
| Yes! |
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50% |
[ 3 ] |
| NO! |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| The USA will support the Kurds! |
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16% |
[ 1 ] |
| The time has come for Turkey to be divided up! |
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33% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 6 |
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| Author |
Message |
Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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| Dream_Merchant wrote: |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7049348.stm
| Quote: |
Turkey's parliament has given permission for the government to launch military operations into Iraq in pursuit of Kurdish rebels.
...
Turkish MPs backed him [Erdogan] overwhelmingly, by 507 votes to 19. |
Anyone want some cold Efes from the fridge? The show is about to begin.
I wonder if they also gave the Generals permission to go to the toilet. They probably need it as much as this (if not more - especially after that round of Efes). |
Don't complain like a backstreet hag. I will enjoy a cold Efes while your political attempt to sabotage the US/Turkish alliance fails miserably. 11 democrats who supported your "genocide bill" have bailed out. Nancy Pelosi, your bought pawn, is getting ready to have her ass wiped all over the senate and congress over the subject. Let's see....Do we support a country that has been an ally for 5 decades? A country that is a hub for 70% of the shipments of war supplies into Iraq and Afghanistan? Or do we recognise a small, bitter group of armenians that have an axe to grind with Turks? You lose, loser. Have fun on your banana republic. |
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Dream_Merchant
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Limassol
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| Xenos 2Fan wrote: |
Let's see....Do we support a country that has been an ally for 5 decades? A country that is a hub for 70% of the shipments of war supplies into Iraq and Afghanistan? Or do we recognise a small, bitter group of armenians that have an axe to grind with Turks? |
Hm yes tough choice really. And thats no sarcasm. Do we continue denying the truth for ephemeral political gain or do we accept historical facts and end up pissing off some grey wolves. Turkey has a lot lot more to lose then the USA if it severs relations. The USA has been covering your muck for the last 50 years because you where their allies. Try not being and we shall see how the dung precipitates. So you guys are either smart and bluffing or stupid and losing. According to Chapfallen, the second. |
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Chapfallen
Warnings : 7
Senior Villager
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 464
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| Quote: |
| So you guys are either smart and bluffing or stupid and losing. According to Chapfallen, the second. |
No their elite are not stupid (like the elite in Greece are not stupid) as culture both we are subhumans but of course this disgusting existing by mistake culture of the fraud Armenians (and also the Jews) are much worst. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1742
Location: Canada
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Don't forget that it was the events in Cyprus, back in 1974, that led toTurkey's preemminance, in the region. The Junta, not unlike the deepstate in Turkey today, seemed to think that the military gesture is a panacea for a vast array of social and political problems. So deluded these Greek Generals that they failed, and brought their country down to shame as well. Their supporters, and the naval bases these entailed were handed on a silver platter to the regional contender, by the social-democracy which followed, making Turkey the little USA it is today.
For it to maintain the dynamisim of Ataturks dream Turkey must have more than just western allies, it must be seen to be Western in its thinking. Turkey is the gateway from which the west can learn from the east, and with this valuable key, Turkey will continue to sustain itself as a center for this social-economic exchange, if it can reform itself to become more inclusive, and transparent, having a government which has the capacity to recognise and respect the needs of minorities to sustain themselves with self representation.
Turkey fears stagnation. The diversion of war is a sentiment which reveals weakness. |
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Chapfallen
Warnings : 7
Senior Villager
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 464
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| Quote: |
Don't forget that it was the events in Cyprus, back in 1974, that led toTurkey's preemminance, in the region. The Junta, not unlike the deepstate in Turkey today, seemed to think that the military gesture is a panacea for a vast array of social and political problems. So deluded these Greek Generals that they failed, and brought their country down to shame as well. Their supporters, and the naval bases these entailed were handed on a silver platter to the regional contender, by the social-democracy which followed, making Turkey the little USA it is today.
For it to maintain the dynamisim of Ataturks dream Turkey must have more than just western allies, it must be seen to be Western in its thinking. Turkey is the gateway from which the west can learn from the east, and with this valuable key, Turkey will continue to sustain itself as a center for this social-economic exchange, if it can reform itself to become more inclusive, and transparent, having a government which has the capacity to recognise and respect the needs of minorities to sustain themselves with self representation.
Turkey fears stagnation. The diversion of war is a sentiment which reveals weakness. |
Junta leaders was stupid but not as much stupid was Makarios that had lead Greece to Junta by his bullshits when Greece could be the little USA of the area if Makarios and some other lunatics didn’t follow Russia in her plans (in the Atchenson plan and not only). The biggest difference of Junta and the deep state in Turkey is what the second didn’t have a group of Donkeys with a Donkey leader in their heads and if someone would dare to make what Makarios did to a whole nation they would shoot him in the right time and not make a bullshit coup at a late time when it was difficult to correct the troubles he made.
As about the second part, I agree what there is much to change for Turkey to be a western country but war is not something new to western culture (or any culture) and for sure is not something new to the war mongers Kurds (like the Turks of course but it will be even worst if they (the Kurds) will be unleashed and no one is able to predict the consequences). A war is discussable to protect their borders and their nation and it must be something different from the minority’s rights that must be respected in any way in a western society.
Turkey geographical position it’s some time beneficial but it’s also very difficult between ancient problems that starting before thousands of years that is better to be controlled than to be unleashed and dangerous.
About the coming war I do not see Turkey have many options and I blame USA(and god) that didn’t predict the problems they could cause by their invasion. The problem is too complex and no one can say for sure what it will be better to happen.
A Kurd state its scares me either if I would like Turkey to limit their powers in the area. But a Turkey that will turn to east is more dangerous than a Kurd state. Like I see it the only factor of stability of the worst area in the planet it will be a European controlled by western Euros and Dollars Turkey that will be able to produce European Kurds and not Muslim (and they are not only Muslim lunatics, they claim what they are also communists… bliah... they are infected with the worst human diseases) extremists. |
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Dream_Merchant
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Limassol
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| Chapfallen wrote: |
| Quote: |
| So you guys are either smart and bluffing or stupid and losing. According to Chapfallen, the second. |
No their elite are not stupid (like the elite in Greece are not stupid) as culture ... |
Actually I agree with you. The turkish administration is not stupid, thats why its hesitating as much as it can in acting on the people's impulse and bluffing all it can. However, there is a huge pressure from the masses for the politicians to act, and I am afraid that at the end of the day, those politicians depend on the masses, so they might bulk and decide to act despite their own personal reservations, in order to satisfy the masses. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| Today I was in Kerynia and some people on the street were giving brochures to people to support the Turkish invasion of Northern Iraq and the fight against the Kurdish fighters (PKK). Also they offered students incentives to miss classes for this cause...amazing!!! |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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ntokos (a greek professor) yesterday gave a pretty interesting view for the current situation.
he claimed that there are two battles going on simultaneously.
one is between the kurds. they , (just like us) are split between moderates and hardliners. as moderates, decided to use the parliament - either independently or through AKP - to improve their situation, PKK has found itself loosing support. so what is the best way to secure support ?
polarise the climate, force turkey into tactical mistakes (oppression, killing civilians, attacking iraq etc), and proove that the moderates cant to shit for the kurds.
not only that, they are putting the relative stability, and possible extensive autonomy or partition of kurdistan (of iraq) in danger.
........
more or less the same takes place in the turkish administration. erdogan has clearly won in the kurdish regions, so he has no incentive to loose those votes. he is rather keen on solving the problem politically.
but with the climate polarising, he is forced to consider that he may well loose the votes from the turks (and they are more). i think he also recognizes that an attack maybe possible, but an occupation will be disastrous.
for the army this is a golden opportunity. great time to show "how they are the only ones that they can protect the nation" , and at the same time show to the turkish public that erdogan is not patriot enough.
in such a climate, the kurdish moderates have no chance. it is not clear if the USA will save erdogans ass by forcing PKK to declare a ceasefire. if not, most probably in such a climate erdogan has no option but to allow limited attacks in north iraq... enough to show his determination.
......
its not something new. its happening all the time, also in our case. the extremes, by polarising the climate reinforce each other. and they do that only for power. |
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