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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| erolz wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
What a pile of garbage!!!!!! |
lol
Your usual 'quality arguments' then Kifeas ? 
It is a fact that you can not bring a prosecution for libel against TP by Bananiot , only TP himself can do so. So it is a fact that your threats are so much 'pissing in the wind' unless you KNOW you can get TP to pursue such an action, which would clearly be madness even if Bananiots claims were provable as untrue, which itself is far from clear. You yap yap like a fearsome dog but you have no ability to do anything but yap yap.
That you yap yap with so much patent impotence just to try and bully Bananiot, not because of any genuine outrage at his action in terms of right and wrong, but merely as a futile attempt to try and silence his criticism of TP shows yet again the type of person you are , at least to me and I suspect others like mete.
The clear reality Kifeas, is that EVEN IF Bananiots claims are libelous against TP, which is far from proved or certain, you have about as much ability to get him into 'trouble' as the all Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus has of militarily forcing Turkey from Cyprus by force of arms. Just impotent yapping of those that think they can scare people into doing what they want with empty threats based on absurd assumptions. Be it Republic of Cyprus ability to force Turkey from Cyprus militarily made by others or your ability to get TP to take out libel action against Bananiot, its the same empty yap yaping with the same total lack of credibility.
If you are determined to try and use threats to silence and attack those you do not like, at least try and find a threat that has a semblance of credibility next time |
Erol, you most likely may think the same about me, but let me make it clear to you that I have close to zero regard about your (with only a few exceptions) nonsensical and distorted views, neither do I care to waste my time answering back to your verbalisms! I am confident anyone of the (anyway few) people reading this forum, that is lucky enough to posses the minimum of intellect, will realise what I am talking about by simply reading the above few posts of yours!
Take care! |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
Erol, you most likely may think the same about me, but let me make it clear to you that I have close to zero regard about your (with only a few exceptions) nonsensical and distorted views, neither do I care to waste my time answering back to your verbalisms! I am confident anyone of the (anyway few) people reading this forum, that is lucky enough to posses the minimum of intellect, will realise what I am talking about by simply reading the above few posts of yours!
Take care! |
Can you as a private individual take a libel action against Bananiot for a libel not made against yourself but aginst TP, or can ONLY TP take such action. Yes or No Kifeas?
Let me give you a hand here. The answer is only TP can do such. So your 'threats' of 'getting Bananiot in trouble' are empty if they rely on legal libel action, unless TP would launch such himself on your say so, which somehow I doubt. Of course you may really mean you can cause all sorts of 'trouble' for Bananiot for having said bad things about TP 'outside' of any legal framework, but this is not what you have said. So either yout threats are hollow and empty attempts at intimidation, or they are not hollow but involve 'non legal trouble' for bananiot which you do not want to admit to being able to bring down. So which is it Kifeas ? Impotent or 'bully' outside of any legal frame work ? |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| erolz wrote: |
Can you as a private individual take a libel action against Bananiot for a libel not made against yourself but aginst TP, or can ONLY TP take such action. Yes or No Kifeas?
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I simply cannot comprehend how someone can be so stupid and stubborn as to argue endlessly for nothing!
Where did I say that I will personally take a libel action against the person behind Bananiot’s codename? Where, really? Yet, Erol is splitting hairs with himself in trying to prove that I cannot do something I did not say I intent to do in the first place.
Erol, it is your right to imagine I am stupid and to feel you are capable of exposing my stupidity! As a matter of fact, I may have the same impression about you! However, that doesn't mean I am indeed stupid, just because you do not realise you have comprehension difficulties!
Let me explain to you what I intent to do tomorrow morning, if by then the person I know for a fact is hiding behind Bananiot, does not substantiate his claims. I will simply forward to Papadopoulos’ political and legal advisors all the information I have in my possession, and I will ask them to take the appropriate legal measures against the individual, so that there is no doubt that his public claims in this and other forums are nothing short of malicious lies. I will make it clear to them that their possible inaction will be regarded by me as an indication that Bananiot's claims are indeed real, and in such a case I will publicise with letters in the press all my actions and suggested findings.
In the likelihood that they will choose to take the necessary legal action against Bananiot, it will definitely also require the summoning and involvement of the service providers of this forum, whoever and wherever they are! Papadopoulos and his associate law firm(s) have plenty of money to summon anyone and "extract" his cooperation, perhaps with the exception of those "hiding" in the illegally occupied north of Cyprus and will choose not to cooperate! As you realise, I am not expecting your cooperation as the administrator of this forum, eventhough it seems it will not be needed!
Whether you believe it or not (is irrelevant anyway,) I am determined to go all the way, and this will surely put into legal troubles the person I know to be hiding behind Bananiot's forum name and making all the known allegations. In fact, if he is man enough he should have the guts to alone publicly disclose his real identity, after all that is being said so far. Alternatively, he has until tomorrow to post his evidence, even if this is a mere reference to a published book or article that makes such claims, in which case the potential libel charges should be directed to the person(s) behind such publications! |
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Get Real!
Warnings : 3
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Nicosia
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| erolz wrote: |
| So your 'threats' of 'getting Bananiot in trouble' are empty if they rely on legal libel action, |
And if they DO NOT you’ve just wasted a lot of breath! |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| I will make it clear to them that their possible inaction will be regarded by me as an indication that Bananiot's claims are indeed real, and in such a case I will publicise with letters in the press all my actions and suggested findings. |
Lol. Well it is good to see you are prepared to use the same bullying threats against TP that you use against Bananiot, in the pursuit of your personal vendetta against him, for this is surely what it is given that you care nothing for succrilous lies made BY TP against the Turkish Cypriot community AND that Bananiot is not the first or only person to have made such accusations re TP. You know and I know that he did not make these claims up out of thin air, yet it is him and only him that you seek to 'cause trouble for' aparently.
| Kifeas wrote: |
In the likelihood that they will choose to take the necessary legal action against Bananiot, |
Lol. In my humble opinion I think you are living in pure cloud cuckoo land if you think this is the 'likely' response to your demands and threats to TP's office. I think the most likely response, if you get one at all, will be for them to deny the charges and explain the realities of why bringing such a prosecution by the President of the Republic of Cyprus over allegations that have already been made by much higher profile people in much more visible places than this forum against a private citizen of the Republic of Cyprus who is not even a journalist would be nothing short of madness. I can find several examples where Presidents of states have taken such action against JOURNALISTS to silence them in such bastions of democracy as Azerbijan ans Shuharto's Indonesia, but I am struggling to find an example where a president of a state has taken such action against a private citizen for an alleged libel committed not in a mainstream publication but on a website such as this with with a viewership in the hundreds. Even in the cases of states like Zimbabwe with action against journalists there is a universal reaction of condemnation against such actions.
The only result of such an action would be to extend the 'viewership' of the alleged libel from a few hundred people to 100,000's of thousands or more as it gets reported over and over again both here and abroad that TP is taking such action and what the alleged libel is, and this assumes that TP has a solid 100% case, which again is far from clear.
So like I say the chances that TP's office will decide to expose themselves to the criticism such a prosecution or threat of it would bring and the countless news stories such action would generate , the dragging up of TP's less than wholesome past in general, all to satisfy your personal vendetta against Bananiot, or for fear of your threats to publicise his refusal to take such action is to me madness and self delusion on a grand scale. To be honest I am still trying to decide if it is madness self delusion on a scale greater than that of the idea of the Republic of Cyprus forcing Turkey from Cyprus via force of arms or not but if it is not, it is pretty dam close in my humble opinion.
| Kifeas wrote: |
it will definitely also require the summoning and involvement of the service providers of this forum, whoever and wherever they are! |
Now here you are on slightly less realistic ground (but only slightly imo). Let me help you out a bit. The site is hosted in the UK and if you want the details, name and address of the company that hosts it just PM me and Ill provide them. Now in the UK there have been test cases for such where the hosters have been deemed to be liable for content they did not create but host. The classic test case is summarised here to help you out Kifeas
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/695596.stm
The point you need to notice here, in case you missed it is that such hosters can be held liable IF they are notified of such by the complaintant and they chose to take no action.
So TP's office could send a threatening letter to the sites hosters inthe hope they will give in to such threats and decide to remove the potential libel to protect themselves from any risk. Of course such action would itself be a news story both here and in the UK and generate massive amounts of column inches and be a great boost to the site. And for why ? To protect TP's reputation from an alleged attack made by a relatively inconsequential private citizen (no offense meant bananiot btw) on a relatively inconsequential website against allegations already made by much higher profile indivduals in much higher profile publications.
Well I look forward to hearing of this threatening letter from TP's office to my web hosters and seeing if my hosters decide to 'crumble' in the face of such threats or not, and I suspect they would not in the first instance but it would be interesting to see one way or the other. I also look forward to the headlines 'Republic of Cyprus President seeks to silence free speach in threatend action against UK web hoster'
| Kifeas wrote: |
Papadopoulos and his associate law firm(s) have plenty of money to summon anyone and "extract" his cooperation, |
No one doubts they have the money or means to pursue such threats or action itself. What I doubt is that they are stupid enough to do so to indulge YOUR ego and personal vendetta against Bananiot.
| Kifeas wrote: |
perhaps with the exception of those "hiding" in the illegally occupied north of Cyprus and will choose not to cooperate! As you realise, I am not expecting your cooperation as the administrator of this forum, eventhough it seems it will not be needed! |
I give you a personal promise Kifeas that should TP's office be stupid enough to try and threaten to pursue me in order to indulge your ego either in the Republic of Cyprus or the UK courts, I will not 'hide' in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. If you want an address where a demand that I remove the material can be sent to , or face prosecution, then again just PM and I will happily provide it. Once more I look forward to receiving such a letter and the press interest it would generate.
| Kifeas wrote: |
Whether you believe it or not (is irrelevant anyway,) I am determined to go all the way, and this will surely put into legal troubles the person I know to be hiding behind Bananiot's forum name and making all the known allegations. |
Oh I believe that you are determined to try and create trouble for Bananiot. What I doubt is your ability to force TP / his office to do it for you when such offers them such massive downsides and that is even if they can prove libel with no difficulty what so ever, which as I keep saying is far from proven yet in my view.
| Kifeas wrote: |
In fact, if he is man enough he should have the guts to alone publicly disclose his real identity, after all that is being said so far. |
Bananiot has never hidden his identity. Certainly not from you nor for that matter me or countless other members of the forum that he has willingly chosen to meet in person.
| Kifeas wrote: |
Alternatively, he has until tomorrow to post his evidence, even if this is a mere reference to a published book or article that makes such claims, in which case the potential libel charges should be directed to the person(s) behind such publications! |
Hmm do you remeber making this post Kifeas ?
http://www.talkcyprus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=71502
| Kifeas wrote: |
| Your understanding is wrong, because a subsequent letter was immediately prepared upon the matter and was conveyed to Turkey via the US embassy in Nicosia, in the form of telegram, in which Turkey was warned that if they do not stop the massacring of civilians with Napalm bombs and if they enter the Cyprus waters inside the 12 miles, an act that would be regarded as the commencing of a sea landing invasion, the Greek Cypriots will start the assaults on Turkish Cypriot villages. Papadopoulos was the one asked to prepare and sign the letter on behalf of the government, but there is no credible information that he was the one that suggested it, unlike what Bananiot (based on Droushiotis) claim, without providing their sorces. |
My emphasis. I suggest you read the thread and your reply. Back then you seemed perfectly aware of the 'source' of Bananiots claim (the same ones made here).
So how did the ecouragement by you for TP to sue Droushiotis for these alledged libels go back then Kifeas? Or could it be that you made no such efforts against the much higher profile Droushiotis back then ? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Get Real! wrote: |
| erolz wrote: |
| So your 'threats' of 'getting Bananiot in trouble' are empty if they rely on legal libel action, |
And if they DO NOT you’ve just wasted a lot of breath! |
What are you suggesting here Get Real? (I hope it is not libelous against Kifeas? )
Are you suggesting that if Bananiot does not do as Kifeas demands of him Kifeas may 'beat Bananiot up' or 'have him investigated for tax fraud' or some other form of illegal action against him, as Kifeas 'knows who he is' ?
Is this what you are suggesting Get Real ? |
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Dream_Merchant
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Limassol
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| brother wrote: |
I know that man is not Tpap, i also think Christofias is not that man as in the last 4 years he backed Tpaps policies and showed no balls to be his own man or stand up to Tpap, which only leaves Kasoulides whom i heard is probably the best man to lead all cypriots due to his exstensive years and experience gained in the halls of brussels and EU and has a very pragmatic approach to all situations. |
Hm. A very interesting statement there. We are talking about a guy that leads a right-wing nationalist party that has some of its slogans as:
"Our borders are in Kyrenia"
"Grivas lives"
"Cyprus is Greek"
"Our capital is Constantinople"
"A good Turk is a dead Turk"
which shows that all this nationalistic mumbo jumbo is but a veneer on country selling no refund taking moneymongers, when Turks (or Turkish Cypriots where it applies) prefer this guy over a "Turks are our brothers, One land - One people" slogan shouting commie. |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus
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| Dream_Merchant wrote: |
| brother wrote: |
I know that man is not Tpap, i also think Christofias is not that man as in the last 4 years he backed Tpaps policies and showed no balls to be his own man or stand up to Tpap, which only leaves Kasoulides whom i heard is probably the best man to lead all cypriots due to his exstensive years and experience gained in the halls of brussels and EU and has a very pragmatic approach to all situations. |
Hm. A very interesting statement there. We are talking about a guy that leads a right-wing nationalist party that has some of its slogans as:
"Our borders are in Kyrenia"
"Grivas lives"
"Cyprus is Greek"
"Our capital is Constantinople"
"A good Turk is a dead Turk"
which shows that all this nationalistic mumbo jumbo is but a veneer on country selling no refund taking moneymongers, when Turks (or Turkish Cypriots where it applies) prefer this guy over a "Turks are our brothers, One land - One people" slogan shouting commie. |
Got to say i never knew that he was a die hard extremist as you suggest, i read a few positive articles on him and a few people made some positive remarks and as you all know i have zero faith in Tpap and Christofias due to the reasons i gace above hence that means their is NO good candidate to lead the Republic of Cyprus just extremists with racist views according to what you said DM. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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| Dream_Merchant wrote: |
| brother wrote: |
I know that man is not Tpap, i also think Christofias is not that man as in the last 4 years he backed Tpaps policies and showed no balls to be his own man or stand up to Tpap, which only leaves Kasoulides whom i heard is probably the best man to lead all cypriots due to his exstensive years and experience gained in the halls of brussels and EU and has a very pragmatic approach to all situations. |
Hm. A very interesting statement there. We are talking about a guy that leads a right-wing nationalist party that has some of its slogans as:
"Our borders are in Kyrenia"
"Grivas lives"
"Cyprus is Greek"
"Our capital is Constantinople"
"A good Turk is a dead Turk"
which shows that all this nationalistic mumbo jumbo is but a veneer on country selling no refund taking moneymongers, when Turks (or Turkish Cypriots where it applies) prefer this guy over a "Turks are our brothers, One land - One people" slogan shouting commie. |
this is not the whole truth about dysi.
dysi has been throughout its history a weird coalition of liberals and nationalists.
you only presented half of them 
since we have a presidential system in cyprus, it is extremely significant who the person which governs is, and it is less significant from where he gets his support (the tpap-akel coalition showed this, just like all presidents before).
and in this respect kasoulides has never been a nationalist.... in comparison actually tpap is way worse.
concequently, it is not weird for Turkish Cypriots to view actions instead of slogans. (even though most Turkish Cypriots as far as i know , do prefer christofias) |
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Dream_Merchant
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Limassol
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| brother wrote: |
Got to say i never knew that he was a die hard extremist as you suggest, i read a few positive articles on him and a few people made some positive remarks and as you all know i have zero faith in Tpap and Christofias due to the reasons i gace above hence that means their is NO good candidate to lead the Republic of Cyprus just extremists with racist views according to what you said DM. |
You are apparently not familiar with DISY. It's a conservative nationalist party, many of its members are tied to EOKA and EOKA B organisations, and/or have supported, and/or glorify, they feel the role of the Orthodox
Church should play a bigger role, conservative in their social views etc. On paper at least.
In reality, they can be separated into two piles. The brainwashed nationalist masses that support them, that don't really know what they are doing, whipped to frenzy by the second pile. Being the types like Casoulides, well educated, smart and shrewd diplomats that are only interested in the accumulation of power within a tight elitistic circle, and that don't give a damn about the country and would probably sell their own neighbor's grandmother if it will get them profit, and use a pretense of nationalism to accrue power in order to realise their plans.
EDIT: Actual AKEL is not that much different, but instead they use socialism instead of nationalism as the rallying cry. Of course they are fundamentally not much different from the DISY politicans. Still, they seem more honest in their approach as a side benefit to socialism is that it prefers pluralism over elitism and that the 'common' people seem to benefit more. In reality though the AKEL elite are simply driving down another road to the same goal as the DISY elite. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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| Dream_Merchant wrote: |
| brother wrote: |
Got to say i never knew that he was a die hard extremist as you suggest, i read a few positive articles on him and a few people made some positive remarks and as you all know i have zero faith in Tpap and Christofias due to the reasons i gace above hence that means their is NO good candidate to lead the Republic of Cyprus just extremists with racist views according to what you said DM. |
You are apparently not familiar with DISY. It's a conservative nationalist party, many of its members are tied to EOKA and EOKA B organisations, and/or have supported, and/or glorify, they feel the role of the Orthodox
Church should play a bigger role, conservative in their social views etc. On paper at least.
In reality, they can be separated into two piles. The brainwashed nationalist masses that support them, that don't really know what they are doing, whipped to frenzy by the second pile. Being the types like Casoulides, well educated, smart and shrewd diplomats that are only interested in the accumulation of power within a tight elitistic circle, and that don't give a damn about the country and would probably sell their own neighbor's grandmother if it will get them profit, and use a pretense of nationalism to accrue power in order to realise their plans.
EDIT: Actual AKEL is not that much different, but instead they use socialism instead of nationalism as the rallying cry. Of course they are fundamentally not much different from the DISY politicans. Still, they seem more honest in their approach as a side benefit to socialism is that it prefers pluralism over elitism and that the 'common' people seem to benefit more. In reality though the AKEL elite are simply driving down another road to the same goal as the DISY elite. |
again, partially true.
it has not yet been the case that casoulides is using nationalist rhetoric.
the nationalist mumbojambo comes now from tpap, diko, edek and evroko...... you dont seem to mention that..... wouldnt diko or evroko sell their mothers for power ? you really think so ?
in short : ALL politicians are corrupt, and all care primarily about power. i personally dont vote based on who the most "ethical" candidate is , because none of them is..... so i need to search for other criteria |
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Dream_Merchant
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Limassol
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Dear cypezokyli,
you are right. I wouldn't be so fast as to say all, but in their vast majority politicans are corrupt. Its the nature of the occupation. And a failing of democracy.
The way I see it, this issue is unavoidable, so one is forced to choose the lesser of two evils. To be frank with you, I am not interested in the day to day management of a country and if politicans make bucks out of government contracts and gain power through dishing out 'favors'.
At the end of the day, everyone eats from everyone, to a lesser or greater extent. What I expect from a government, particularly a head of state, is for it to be 'make the 'right choice' in turning moments in internal and foreign affairs. This is the reasoning behind my support of a politican, not that I think they are ethical, but that their interests seem to be more aligned with my interests, both personal as well as intracommunal.
So we agree.
Why I did not place the other parties? To be frank with you, they don't matter as much. Both AKEL and DISY (including their forebears) have together shared the overwhelming majority of the electoral vote in almost the entire history of the Republic. Hence, with their example I outline the general trend which you say.
It is interesting that for once there is a third option. At no other time have the centre parties had a viable candidate. But I doubt that they will manage.
And people, I do not simply want ANY solution (a wrong solution that is), so enough with the lets vote for someone that may provide a solution to the Cyprus problem. Instead, lets vote for someone that won't provide a WRONG solution to the Cyprus problem. I prefer the status quo over a WRONG solution. Because the status quo implies that in the future a CORRECT solution may be found, whereas a WRONG solution would solidify the problem and bring forth new problems. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| Dream_Merchant wrote: |
I prefer the status quo over a WRONG solution. Because the status quo implies that in the future a CORRECT solution may be found, whereas a WRONG solution would solidify the problem and bring forth new problems.
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I don't agree. Assuming that the current situation is "wrong", the status quo only serves to make the wrong more permanent, people get used to it, so it doesn't seem so wrong anyone. We've already seen this happening in a number of ways. I also agree that a wrong solution is not good either but for me the wrongness formula is as follows: status quo >= a wrong solution. |
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Dream_Merchant
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Limassol
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Then you get a F for maths.
Moving along. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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Dear dream merchant is good that we agree.
| Dream_Merchant wrote: |
Why I did not place the other parties? To be frank with you, they don't matter as much. Both AKEL and DISY (including their forebears) have together shared the overwhelming majority of the electoral vote in almost the entire history of the Republic. Hence, with their example I outline the general trend which you say.
It is interesting that for once there is a third option. At no other time have the centre parties had a viable candidate. But I doubt that they will manage.
. |
this is again not the whole truth .
akel and dysi indeed control most of the electorate. but who had the most presidents ?
let me remind you :
3 times diko , 2 times dysi, 1 time akel.
so the "centre" parties, not only had a viable candidate, but they elected him half of the times, despite their low percentage.
| Quote: |
| And people, I do not simply want ANY solution (a wrong solution that is), so enough with the lets vote for someone that may provide a solution to the Cyprus problem. Instead, lets vote for someone that won't provide a WRONG solution to the Cyprus problem. I prefer the status quo over a WRONG solution. Because the status quo implies that in the future a CORRECT solution may be found, whereas a WRONG solution would solidify the problem and bring forth new problems |
this is a very clear opinion.
and i respect that.
even though you didnot really define what is a "wrong" solution, i can more or less assume. if thats what you believe than you should vote for tpap. |
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