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cypezokyli

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Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:38 am Post subject:

on the tpap-talat meeting : it will take place, but after the elections in turkey. as for the sport event. it is an example of our rediculous cyprus politics. in cyprus we manage to give secondary things too much attention... it is a standard procedure... the Turkish Cypriot leadership will not get recognised with a football game. yet they organise it in all secrecy, and if it works, they will present it as a great achievement of their goverment.... imo, ( just like tpap is doing on our side) this is more a vote-fishing, than any serious diplomatic moove. but it leaked in the press....soyer didnt want to loose the publicity that he was the one who "managed to brake the Greek Cypriot embargo".... for our side it is a standard procedure and it will happen so long we dont find a solution. we ll just send a letter to FIFA or UEFA, and they will forbid the game. then we will say : "you could just send one fax and inform the cypriot sport organisation, and then there would have been no problem" then you would say "why should we send you a fax? " then we would say "see, there is no embargo, all you want is to achieve recognition" then you will say : "....." question : does anyone remembers the cyppro anymore ? ....... they will meet soon. dont worry. the thing to worry about is if something will come out of this meeting....and for that, i am not that optimistic

Evagoras

Senior Villager

Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 118

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:20 pm Post subject:

mete papadopoulos serves the interests of the people that elected him when tou will return back to Republic of Cyprus you will have the right to choose the man you want to serve your interests.

Mete
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject:

cypezokyli wrote:

as for the sport event. it is an example of our rediculous cyprus politics. in cyprus we manage to give secondary things too much attention... it is a standard procedure...

Very true. You know this sports embargo can be solved very easily by keeping politics out of sports. What we can do is that we can transform Cyprus Football Federation into a bicommunal body where a certain number of Turkish Cypriot representation is guaranteed and then let Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot teams participate in a bicommunal league. Keep politics out of sports, Turkish Cypriots will get to play their international sports, Greek Cypriots will not worry about a stupid football game turning into recognition and everybody is happy. Is it that hard to do this today? I don't think so. If we had politicians who were willing to solve problems rather than create them, this wouldn't be too hard to achieve and it would further server as an example where bicommunal cooperation is possible.

Evagoras wrote:

mete papadopoulos serves the interests of the people that elected him when tou will return back to Republic of Cyprus you will have the right to choose the man you want to serve your interests.

See, we recently tried that with 78 Turkish Cypriots who demanded their rights in the Republic of Cyprus but it was denied by the "legal" coutry in the south. I guess we'll see what happens in the EHRC.

Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial

Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject:

Bananiot wrote:

...............

This loyal person, GR, that you claim Papadopoulos is to the Republic of Cyprus, singled out two Turkish villages that were to disappear from the map of Cyprus in 1964, "had the Turkish fleet moved to within 10 miles of Cyprus water". The sooner he goes the better!

Bananiot wrote:

Mikkie, do you think the inhabitats of these villages will believe that he has honest intentions? By the way, do you know how he proposed going about annihilating the villages (and the people living in them)? By filling fire engines with petrol and spraying their houses! If you think he had second thought on this and this is what saved the day, you do not know the man.

.............

Bananiot, I will kindly ask you to substantiate your above claims with solid evidence, otherwise to withdraw them and apologise in this forum and anywhere else you have made such claims. Alternatively, I have all the necessary information regarding your true identity, and I am determined to get you into trouble!

erolz

Site Admin

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:36 pm Post subject:

Kifeas wrote:

How does that work then? Can I ask TP to substantiate his claim that

Quote:

From 1963 to 1974, how many Turkish Cypriots were killed? The answer is, none.

which can be found here

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?section=exclusiveinterview&xfile=data/exclusiveinterview/2004/september/exclusiveinterview_september2.xml

and if he does not publicly withdraw this statement can you let me know how I can 'get him into trouble' - I do know his true identity and name by the way as well as pseudonyms he has written under in the past (cough - akritas - cough).

Or are you going to suggest TP lauch, another, libel action against a voter like Bannaniot with the elections comming up. You could also threaten me and my service providers as well, I mean if threating bullying is good for one why not all ? If you need any info on me or my service providers please do just ask.

Mete
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Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject:

Although it's not a bad thing if Bananiot provides some evidence, threatening him with getting him in trouble is just plain ridiculous. Kifeas, you've shown time after time that you have little tolerance for alternate views so stop acting like you love democracy and that's what you want in Cyprus. When you grow up and learn that the key ingredient of democracy is to defend the right of people to say what they believe even if it's 100% against your beliefs, then we can have a sensible discussion! It's also pathetic that you keep avoiding my replies to your posts and single out Bananiot's posts and find a way to harass him every time.

Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial

Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject:

erolz wrote:

Kifeas wrote:

How does that work then? Can I ask TP to substantiate his claim that

Quote:

From 1963 to 1974, how many Turkish Cypriots were killed? The answer is, none.

Unfortunately Erol, unlike the existence of laws prohibiting and penalising malicious slander in the Republic of Cyprus (and in nearly all countries I know,) there is no law prohibiting the denial of Turkish Cypriot deaths from 1963 -1974, in the same way that unfortunately there are no laws in many countries prohibiting the denial of the Armenian genocide. I would like here to remind you that you are one of the people against the introduction of such laws, as they would be limiting the "freedom of speech!" Consequently, Bananiot (or M.N.,) by doing what he does without substantiated evidence, he commits an illegality under the laws of the country in which he lives, but Papadopoulos unfortunately does not! Therefore, unfortunately you cannot get him into trouble with legal means (like I will get Bananiot into,) but only through political ones. You are free for example to write an article on the issue you are raising, with all the backup information, suggest that Papadopoulos is a liar on the basis of the above interview, and ask the Greek Cypriot newspapers to publish it. I am sure many Greek Cypriot newspapers will happily do so, and this may potentially cause Papadopoulos some trouble, especially now that there is a pre-election campaign.

On the essence, and this is something that was already discussed in the past, in my opinion it seems that either Papadopoulos had committed a verbal mistake in that interview, or the reporter made a hearing or an input mistake! This is proved by the fact that Papadopoulos has never repeated the above claim in any other case of interview or public speech that I am aware of!

Kifeas
Warnings : 6
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Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:03 pm Post subject:

Mete wrote:

Although it's not a bad thing if Bananiot provides some evidence, threatening him with getting him in trouble is just plain ridiculous.

Kifeas, you've shown time after time that you have little tolerance for alternate views so stop acting like you love democracy and that's what you want in Cyprus. When you grow up and learn that the key ingredient of democracy is to defend the right of people to say what they believe even if it's 100% against your beliefs, then we can have a sensible discussion!

It's also pathetic that you keep avoiding my replies to your posts and single out Bananiot's posts and find a way to harass him every time.

Mete, when I am convinced that you became old enough to distinguish the difference between illegal malicious slanders and mere "alternative views," then I will be bothered to spend time to deal with and reply to your posts!

erolz

Site Admin

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject:

Kifeas wrote:

Kifeas Kifeas Kifeas - where to begin ?

So your professed outraged at Bananiot is merely a 'legalistic' convenience devoid of any judgment of 'wrongness', expressed merely as means of 'attacking' your enemy. Oh how proud of you TP must be. For if it is wrong for bananiot, a mere citizen' to allegedly tell lies about TP without providing concrete proof of their truth, then how much more wrong is of TP, as a president of an allegedly bi communal state to tell what are without a shadow of a doubt lies about a whole community he claims to represent.

Kifeas wrote:

Consequently, Bananiot (or M.N.,) by doing what he does without substantiated evidence, he commits an illegality under the laws of the country in which he lives, but Papadopoulos unfortunately does not!

It is not illegal to make claims about an individual unless you provide your substantiated evidence when making the claim. It is only an offense if what you claim is untrue. Despite your 'squeals' it is not for you to be judge and jury on such a matter but in fact for a judge and jury to be so after hearing the evidence in a court of law. How do you know what evidence Bananiot may have or not for this claim?

Kifeas wrote:

Therefore, unfortunately you cannot get him into trouble with legal means (like I will get Bananiot into,)

You can not pursue a case of slander against someone other than yourself. So to get Bananiot in 'trouble' as you so absolutely claim you will, first what Bananiot says must be untrue (which itself is not yet proven) AND more importantly and unlikely you would have to personally convince TP himself to decide to , as president of the Republic of Cyprus with a crucial election coming up, to pursue a libel action against a private citizen of the Republic of Cyprus for something said on a forum read by a few hundred people. So just how close are you to TP that you can be so certain that you could convince him to pursue such a monumentally stupid course of action to satisfy your personal feud against Bananiot and stop you looking like an impotent foll, threatening that which you have no power to bring about ?

Kifeas wrote:

On the essence, and this is something that was already discussed in the past, in my opinion it seems that either Papadopoulos had committed a verbal mistake in that interview, or the reporter made a hearing or an input mistake! This is proved by the fact that Papadopoulos has never repeated the above claim in any other case of interview or public speech that I am aware of!

You would have us believe that what he said was a mistake or error on part of the journalist despite the fact that the error (as you allege) is one of huge and blatant inaccuracy on a matter of extreme sensitivity , that just happens to echo much classic Greek Cypriot propaganda on the matter (though to an extreme degree even for such propaganda) and he has NEVER once thought to correct this error that remains till this day in black and white on the link provided. There is no politician in the world that would let either a verbal mistake or error on part of journalist stand without (swift and vociferous) correction when the degree of error is so vast and the subject of such sensitivity, but this is what you expect us to believe is the case with TP in your apologist attempts to absolve the man. If he said something he did not mean or if the journalist quoted him as saying something that he did not say, then he would issue a statement saying so and do so quickly and decisively. He has not done this, ever. Why ?

Kifeas
Warnings : 6
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Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject:

erolz wrote:

Kifeas wrote:

Therefore, unfortunately you cannot get him into trouble with legal means (like I will get Bananiot into,)

Kifeas wrote:

What a pile of garbage!!!!!!

100%cypriot
Warnings : 4
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 2181

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Just who do they think they’re kidding?
By Loucas Charalambous

IS THERE anyone with half a brain who has not realised what is behind the President’s surprising decision to call for a meeting with Mehmet Ali Talat, which he had been staunchly opposing for years now? Even a five-year-old could see through the President’s puerile antics.

There is no doubt that Papadopoulos’ action was a publicity stunt aimed at confusing a significant number of people, mainly on the left, who oppose his presidency because of his ultra-hard line on the Cyprus problem. That the news about his call for a meeting with Talat broke on the eve of last Sunday’s AKEL congress which was to decide whether Demetris Christofias would be a presidential candidate, was certainly no coincidence.

Neither was it a coincidence that the Washington-based journalist Michalis Ignatiou was used to report the story; he has often been used in this way by the government.

I will not go into the glaring contradictions and inconsistency of the behaviour of the President who, until a few days ago, dismissed as na?ve anyone that proposed a meeting with Talat – the ‘puppet of Ankara’ as he liked to call him – and urged them to “study the Cyprus problem properly”. Has Talat suddenly stopped being Ankara’s puppet, or was it the President who did not know the Cyprus problem and had failed to study it properly only a few days ago?

And how will he welcome the Turkish Cypriot leader at their meeting? Will he say: “Welcome Mr Talat. I have now decided that you are no long the puppet of Ankara and that it is you that holds the key to a solution and therefore I have to talk to you?” Even absurdities of this type should have limits.

Just who does Papadopoulos think he would convince that he is sincere, when he has remembered the need for a settlement just a few months before the elections? Even his ally until a few days ago, Demetris Christofias, told us that the whole world regards him as politically untrustworthy. Papadopoulos will have trouble convincing anyone about his sincerity after sitting with his sidekick Tasos Tzionis and drafting that appalling document of 93 chapters, which he submitted for discussion between the two sides as part of the July 8 procedure.

This document had only one purpose – to prevent the procedure, supposedly for the preparation of settlement talks, from going anywhere. A quick read of this badly-written and slapdash document is enough to persuade even the most open-minded person that the last thing he is interested in is working for a settlement.

Only the other day, I heard of Tzionis’ outrageous reaction to the use of the word ‘co-operation’ in the document of the Turkish Cypriot side’s positions submitted by Talat’s representative at the talks, Rasit Pertev. Tzionis, presumably on Papadopoulos’ instructions, reacted angrily and refused to accept the submission of the document with the Turkish Cypriot proposals because in some of the chapters the word ‘co-operation’ was used. His argument for opposing the use of the word was that ‘co-operation between non-equals’ was inconceivable. To get an idea of how absurdly paranoid Tzionis’ objection really was, just consider that there has been no resolution or document by the UN on Cyprus, in the last 40 years that did not refer to the need for co-operation between the two communities.

Leaving aside the president’s communications games, how could anyone expect anything under these circumstances to come of the alleged mobility? Is it realistic to expect the Cyprus problem to be solved by people whose only serious concern is idiotic word-games? Is it possible for the Cyprus problem to be solved and the island reunited as a bi-communal state by people who go berserk when they hear of co-operation with the other side?

Nice Piece on the cyprus mail today , worth reading

100%cypriot
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 2181

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Some reason to hope for better days
By Nick Pittas

ON a Mediterranean island where even the stones sing of its history, it is not surprising that Cypriots carry cruel memories and stories in their hearts like a leaden weight. More than anything else, it is these stories, well rehearsed and repeated ad nauseam, that prevent people on both sides of the dividing line from imagining and implementing a cohesive social and political union among all the island’s lawful inhabitants, be they Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Maronite, Latin or of other ethnic origin or religion.

This is not to look at the Cyprus problem through rose tinted glasses. There are more than a few objective obstacles that would make reaching a fair settlement difficult even if the Cypriots were able to reconcile and put their inter-communal difference behind them. In a world ruled by powerful interests and forces, whether on a global or regional scale, the interests of small states, especially strategically important ones like Cyprus, rarely matter much. Such states are only nominally sovereign as a kind of fiction of international law. It may not be just or fair, but politics on an international scale has to be played with rules of engagement that favour the powerful.

In the Cypriot context, this has always meant that our local differences cannot be played out in a vacuum. We are in a region where our problem impacts and is impacted by larger Greek-Turkish relations, the problems of the Middle East, the war against terror, oil and gas politics and relations among the great powers, particularly the Americans, the larger EU states and the Russians, to mention only a few.
Nevertheless, if we are ever going to make peace and re-unite some day, the people and leaders of our two largest communities have to find it within themselves to break free of the shackles of our modern history and envision a political, economic and social union in Cyprus that transcends our separate identities as Greeks or Turks, Christians or Muslims. It would be far more difficult for powerful interests outside Cyprus to play the game of divide and rule, if the island’s communities were not willing to play along.
This is why recent events on the Greek side give us some reason to hope for better days. In the coming presidential elections, the basic choice for Greek Cypriots will be whether to continue with the leadership of Tassos Papadopoulos, or to pass on the baton of leadership to Ioannis Kasoulides or Demetris Christofias.

With Papadopoulos at the helm, the prospects for resumption of meaningful talks between the two sides on the island are dim. Unless some unforeseen external event happens that motivates the international community to pressure the sides back to the table, we can safely predict that nothing will happen quickly to break the impasse resulting from the rejection in 2004 of the UN Secretary-general’s plan by the Greek Cypriot community. Until it became clear that the collective leadership of AKEL had decided to contest next year’s presidential election, Papadopoulos had avoided studiously making any opening directly to the Turkish Cypriot leader, Mehmet Ali Talat, and has made no secret of the fact that he sees Mr Talat as a pawn of the Turkish state.

On the Turkish side, Papadopoulos is seen as the heir of Greek Cypriot nationalist forces that in their view attempted to usurp the constitutional rights of the Turkish Cypriot community by force and expelled their representatives from positions in the government, compelling most of them to withdraw into enclaves for their self-defence and survival.

This is baggage that neither Christofias nor Kasoulides has to bear. Christofias has the advantage of being cut from the same ideological cloth as Mr Talat, whereas Kasoulides comes from the party that more than any other in recent times has attempted to make openings and friendly gestures to bridge the chasm separating the two communities. Christofias and Kasoulides seem to understand that one of the prerequisites for a lasting reconciliation between our two main communities is the need to foster a climate of mutual trust and respect as an antidote to the merciless grip on our collective psyches of those deep seated fears and suspicions that have poisoned our relations for generations, especially among those under the age of 50 who have never known a time of relative inter-communal friendship.

In addition, Papadopoulos is understandably perceived by many in the international community as someone not to be trusted. There are many notable figures in the international community who believe sincerely that Papadopoulos played a duplicitous game in the failed negotiations of 2002-2004. In their view, he used the more honest intransigence of Rauf Denktash to disguise his own, and pretended to be open to negotiation on the UN plan until Turkey and the Turkish Cypriots exposed his true intentions by accepting the arbitration of the UN Secretary-general. Both Christofias and Kasoulides enjoy a significantly better reputation than Papadopoulos for playing the diplomatic game with integrity.

We must never forget that our greatest asset in the diplomatic arena is our legitimacy as a recognised state, notwithstanding more than 40 years of constitutional anomaly and breakdown of the agreements that brought Cyprus into existence. The most damaging aspect of the way in which Papadopoulos has handled the Cyprus file since he took over as president has been the widespread perception internationally that it is the Greek Cypriot community and not the Turkish Cypriots or Turkey who are primarily responsible for the lack of a settlement. If this perception does not change, the most likely outcome will be the slow but inexorable de facto recognition of the administration in the north. This will further cement the division on Cyprus, and over time will make a settlement less and less palatable on both sides of our divided island.
More fundamentally, Kasoulides and Christofias represent mainstream Cypriot political life more so than Papadopoulos. It is these broad social forces that must be united on the “national question” to deliver the votes to ratify any settlement by referendum. What many may have lost sight of is that one effect of our rejection of the UN plan in 2004 is that the Turkish Cypriot community may not be quite so anxious to vote for a reunited Cyprus the next time. Many on the other side see polls and hear political statements from this side that lead them to think that a majority of Greek Cypriots do not want to be reunited with them in a partnership state. For all their isolation, the economic situation in the north has improved since the referenda and going forward it will take a strong and united leadership, whether under Christofias or Kasoulides, to convince ordinary Turkish Cypriots that we sincerely share their desire for a federal, bi-zonal and bi-communal solution.

Precious time has been lost since the referenda in establishing a climate favourable to the resumption of negotiations when all the stakeholders are ready. Meetings between the communities’ leaders may not be sufficient to bridge the differences that need to be overcome before comprehensive negotiations can resume, but they can serve the useful purpose of signalling mutual good will and sincere desire to move closer to the desired outcome.

We need to encourage contact between the communities at all levels. Meetings between the leaders serve the useful symbolic purpose of signalling to the people on both sides, especially those trapped in the past, that progress is not made by those who shun each other. By meeting and talking to each other respectfully and with a willingness to see each others point of view we can at least improve the climate for comprehensive negotiations when the time is ripe.

While it is undoubtedly true that Cyprus cannot afford another failed attempt to settle the problem, we have to be prepared to take measured risks if we are to start building a better tomorrow for all our people.

some more from the cyprus mail

100%cypriot
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Ministerial

Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 2181

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:58 pm Post subject:

I wonder if these journalists are on Tpap's christmas card list

erolz

Site Admin

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject:

Kifeas wrote:

What a pile of garbage!!!!!!

lol

Your usual 'quality arguments' then Kifeas ? Smile

It is a fact that you can not bring a prosecution for libel against TP by Bananiot , only TP himself can do so. So it is a fact that your threats are so much 'pissing in the wind' unless you KNOW you can get TP to pursue such an action, which would clearly be madness even if Bananiots claims were provable as untrue, which itself is far from clear. You yap yap like a fearsome dog but you have no ability to do anything but yap yap.

That you yap yap with so much patent impotence just to try and bully Bananiot, not because of any genuine outrage at his action in terms of right and wrong, but merely as a futile attempt to try and silence his criticism of TP shows yet again the type of person you are , at least to me and I suspect others like mete.

The clear reality Kifeas, is that EVEN IF Bananiots claims are libelous against TP, which is far from proved or certain, you have about as much ability to get him into 'trouble' as the all Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus has of militarily forcing Turkey from Cyprus by force of arms. Just impotent yapping of those that think they can scare people into doing what they want with empty threats based on absurd assumptions. Be it Republic of Cyprus ability to force Turkey from Cyprus militarily made by others or your ability to get TP to take out libel action against Bananiot, its the same empty yap yaping with the same total lack of credibility.

If you are determined to try and use threats to silence and attack those you do not like, at least try and find a threat that has a semblance of credibility next time Smile

Mete
Warnings : 3
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject:

Kifeas wrote:

Oh ok. So the views that you don't agree with are "illegal" and other obviously wrong and in my opinion immoral statements like Papadopoulos saying that no Turkish Cypriots were killed between 1963 and 1974 are simply wrong or misreported. How convenient indeed.

Kifeas wrote:

What a pile of garbage!!!!!!

That's all you can do. Pick and choose the "easy" posts you can attack and whenever you cannot reply back or say something sensible, you get out of it by merely ignoring it or writing something stupid as you've been doing recently. And ironically enough you tell me to grow up.

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