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Bananiot
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: AVRATININ Reply with quote

In the space of a week, it was revealed just now that Papadopoulos has sent two letters to Talat begging for a face to face meeting! Two weeks ago he was scornful of anybody calling for such a meeting that would "serve only communication purposes".
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-mikkie2-

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bananiot,

It serves no purpose for you to react in this way. Rather analyse the situation and accept that this is a good move.

This step can only be seen as positive because Papadopoulos has gradually realised that he has to take the initiative. We have been on the defensive for so long now, this comes as a breath of fresh air.

Remember a while back when we met, that we talked about the bridge and that Talat was told to take the bridge away and see if Papadopoulos would do the same with the wall? Well, he did. And it actually showed that we are not the reason why Ledra street isn't open. It showed that the problem in this instance is the Turkish army.

It is clear that the international community supports the July 8th process and so Papadopoulos needs to take the opportunity and show that we mean business and to force the Turks to make decisions. He has finally thrown the ball back to them. Lets see what the Turks will come back with.
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cypezokyli

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ofcource it is a positive step.

but as i said in the other thread, tpap is not in a position to realise the factor timing.

instead of an immidiate demolition of the bridge, it took him months to do that, and he did it in the middle of the night!! he only appeared as realising something too late, and even worse, it didnt seem as his own initiative but as a result of pressure.

the same thing now. all the time before, he repeatetly called such meeting as useless (koffee meetings). now, even if his motives are honest, he only appears to have election motives.

and even worse, he implicitly accepts, that all the others were right.
kasoulides said for example only last week, that he is not afraid to talk to talat. do you remember what the goverment gang responded to that ?
"the key lies in turkey"

if the key lies in turkey, why the hell does he now want to meet with talat ?
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-mikkie2-

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
kasoulides said for example only last week, that he is not afraid to talk to talat. do you remember what the goverment gang responded to that ?
"the key lies in turkey"


Their response was not to meet for the sake of meeting but to meet with a clear agenda in mind. To me, this is fair enough.

Also, to a large extent, the key does lie with Ankara. But we can only prise the key away by engaging the Turkish Cypriot's so that we can build trust between us.

I think with the bridge, Talat really had to take it down irrespective of what Turkey thought. He had to show that he could make decisions independently from Turkey. As it happens, he was reprimanded by the Turks!

Papadopoulos took down the wall in response to this to show good will, and to also show that it is the Turkish army that controls the situation and not Talat. I don't think the Turks expected the wall to come down. They were taken by surprise just as much as everyone else. However, it clearly showed that irrespective of the wall and bridge not being there, Ledra street cannot open if the Turkish army is in the area. To this day the Turkish army hasn't moved an inch from the area.

You will also remember that this initiative was mooted a while back but in reverse - start two technical commitees on day to day issues and issues of substance then meet Talat 10 days later. The Turks rubbished the idea. This time he's reversed the order! Meet first and discuss then set up the two comittees 10 days later! Simple but clever I think. The Turks can't wiggle out of this one.
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DM

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T I M I N G ! ! !

In almost all cases where political decisions need to be taken, there are two crucial factors that will decide the outcome of the decision. These are the decision itself (content) nad the timing!

I am afraid to say that Tassos has proved once again that he is just capable of taking decisions only when shit hits the fan and only when he panics. Christofias has confessed that he has been trying to convince Tassos to meet Talat and bring down the wall for ages and the response has always been a stubborn No. Only when he started panicking he would decide to make a move and only once it was too late. The guy is a stubborn 1960's politician who has always tried to portrait itself as the "know-it-all" ethnarch. No surprise that the offer to meet Talat comes at a time that Akel split from the tri-partite coalition. The move is clearly a move that seeks to remove arguments from Akel in the light of the forthcoming elections. In my opinion it is clearly another act of panic that makes him look even more ridiculous in the eyes of the public opinion.
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-mikkie2-

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Christofias has confessed that he has been trying to convince Tassos to meet Talat and bring down the wall for ages and the response has always been a stubborn No.


Then why let things drag on then? Why didn't Christofias open his mouth sooner rather than wait for election time to air his views? Why have a foreign minister of AKEL pushing Papadopoulos agenda? Its Christofias that is making himself look stupid. He can't absolve himself of responsibility. He can't wash his hands of the situation because he has been part of the problem too.
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pg

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It more reminds me of Dec 2003...

Papadopoulos is trying to lay blame on the other side, and dimplomatic circles puts pressure on him that he at least needs to send a letter asking to proceed with negotiations. He does so - since he assumes the other side will reject.
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-mikkie2-

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pg, what relevance does this have on AKEL and Christofias? I am saying if AKEL saw that things were not going right, even from the very beginning, why did they chose to sit on their arses and not say or do anything?

Instead we head into Europe thinking that we can just rely on the law to make headway with the Cyprus Problem and ignoring the political aspects of the problem inside Europe.

To me, this is where things have gone badly wrong because we have the advantage of circulating the corridorrs of power in Brussells and not taking advatnage that power can bring.
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pg

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you. My point was just that I do not think Papadopoulos with the letter is trying a smart move - I think he is just chased by events.
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-mikkie2-

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I agree with you. My point was just that I do not think Papadopoulos with the letter is trying a smart move - I think he is just chased by events.


I'm not sure I agree with you here. What events are we chasing?

To me, if you read between the lines, its the Turkish side that is stalling. You have Talat now accusing Michael Moller of being biased towards the Greek Cypriot side and you have pressure from the Security Council for the July 8th processs to move on. In diplomatic circles it seems that annoyance is turning towards the Turkish side because it does seem that the Greek Cypriot side has made many initiatives for the July 8th process to move on but without success. As the saying goes, it takes two to tango.

Basically, irrespective of electoral considerations in the south, Papadopoulos is finally putting pressure on the Turkish side and taking advantage of a fairly positive impression of the Greek Cypriot side in its attempts to start the process going. I think finally the penny may have dropped in Papadopoulos' mind that he has to create openings himself rather than just rely on events. Well, I hope that is the case!
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Kifeas
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: AVRATININ Reply with quote

Bananiot wrote:
In the space of a week, it was revealed just now that Papadopoulos has sent two letters to Talat begging for a face to face meeting! Two weeks ago he was scornful of anybody calling for such a meeting that would "serve only communication purposes".


BEGGING!!!

and I say that the only that is begging for something, it's you from your psychiatrist to lock you in!

Xenerote!!!
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erolz

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

-mikkie2- wrote:
Quote:
I agree with you. My point was just that I do not think Papadopoulos with the letter is trying a smart move - I think he is just chased by events.


I'm not sure I agree with you here. What events are we chasing?

To me, if you read between the lines, its the Turkish side that is stalling. You have Talat now accusing Michael Moller of being biased towards the Greek Cypriot side and you have pressure from the Security Council for the July 8th processs to move on. In diplomatic circles it seems that annoyance is turning towards the Turkish side because it does seem that the Greek Cypriot side has made many initiatives for the July 8th process to move on but without success. As the saying goes, it takes two to tango.

Basically, irrespective of electoral considerations in the south, Papadopoulos is finally putting pressure on the Turkish side and taking advantage of a fairly positive impression of the Greek Cypriot side in its attempts to start the process going. I think finally the penny may have dropped in Papadopoulos' mind that he has to create openings himself rather than just rely on events. Well, I hope that is the case!


Talat has agreed to such a meeting and even suggest regular such meetings.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=33521&cat_id=1

Some sections of the Greek Cypriot community clearly remain skeptical about TP's 'u-turn' re face to face meetings with Talat

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=33526&cat_id=1
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Mete
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kifeas wrote:

BEGGING!!!

and I say that the only that is begging for something, it's you from your psychiatrist to lock you in!

I know according to you, the Turkish side the root of all the problems in Cyprus, but whether you acknowledge or not, Talat has been asking for direct talks for a while now. It's your president and his blind supporters like yourself that thought it was waste of time to talk to Talat all this time and instead wanted to negotiate with Turkey directly.

Now, since the elections are getting closer, all of a sudden your president realizes the value of communication. This is really a radical problem solving skill on your president's part! Instead of questioning this, you go ahead and harass Bananiot with your idiotic remarks and you try to convince us that you want democracy in Cyprus. Sometimes I wonder if you even know what democracy is!
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Bananiot
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Mete, I am very proud to have you as a brother and a friend.
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boulio
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
know according to you, the Turkish side the root of all the problems in Cyprus, but whether you acknowledge or not, Talat has been asking for direct talks for a while now


You mean Direct Flights right? Wink
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