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Germany questions our entry into the Eurozone
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turkcyp

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mete wrote:

First, why is GBP economically a better option for the north? .


Turkish Cypriot economies business cycles are more in tandem with UK economies business cycles than the Euro area. That is why. Majority of tourists come from UK, either in the form of Turkish Cypriots living there or Brits. In the last 3 to 4 years whether many people like it or not property and construction market also became very in attached to UK economy as well. If there is direct trade or direct flights happen one day again the first market that will happen will be UK again not Euro. Etc. etc. Reasons are endless.

So you want to use the currency of the country that most affects your economy. For Turkish Cypriots this has been and still is Turkey, but Turkish lire as everybody knows does not have a very good track record of stability. And nobody can guarantee that the recent stability will be long lasting as well. So the next option becomes GBP. So that when there is expansion in UK the probability that there will be expansion in the north is high and vice versa. So Bank of England decisions relating to GBP will be more in favor of Turkish Cypriot economy than the ECB decisions relting to Euro in regards to Cyprus.

As I have said these are merely economical reasons. If one day due to free direct trade and direct flights we will have more in line with Euro area then may be.

Mete wrote:

Second, even if we agree with your point, assuming that north Cyprus will officially be part of the EU in the coming years, wouldn't it make more sense to start using Euro now so we don't have to change currencies one more time later? Unless using GBP is far more superior to Euro, I don't see why we have to go through the currency change twice.


Let aside the fact that I do not see the future of Euro so bright, your suggestion is more political in nature. Just as the Greek Cypriots entry to Euro. Economically they were better of with CBP but it was a political decision. And even then statment of yours rests on the assumtion that in near future there will be a solution in Cyprus and we all will use Euro.

You see I used to think that this could happen after 2008 if somebody else gets ellected as the presidnet of Republic of Cyprus. But as the chances of T.Pap. being president again is increasing I really do not see that solution to Cyprus problem coming in near future.

Take care,
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Kifeas
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people here seem to be with the illusion that there is an option for the Turkish Cypriots in the north to shift away from the Turkish Lira to any other currency.

If you believe that Turkey, on top of what it is already costing them to occupy Cyprus plus subsidizing the Turkish Cypriot “government” and economy, they will also accept to have to do this in a foreign currency, with all the additional costs that this entails, then you really do no not know what you talking about. You can have the luxury to shift currencies, if you are economically self sufficient and independed!
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Mete
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turkcyp wrote:

Turkish Cypriot economies business cycles are more in tandem with UK economies business cycles than the Euro area.

I kind of disagree. It's true that there's a lot of British money in the north nowadays but majority of the European tourists and European property buyers are British in the south and they don't consider going with GBP just because of that. Similarly, other European countries like Germany, France, Spain have much more economic relations with Britain and they use Euro. Besides, if we follow this logic, the whole world should use American dollars or pretty soon Chinese money (whatever it is), it doesn't make sense (to me at least).
turkcyp wrote:

You see I used to think that this could happen after 2008 if somebody else gets ellected as the presidnet of Republic of Cyprus. But as the chances of T.Pap. being president again is increasing I really do not see that solution to Cyprus problem coming in near future.

That's a fair assessment but then again, it's true that we like to attract more Europeans to the north as tourists or economic partners with or without a solution or EU membership...Euro can only make that easier in my opinion.
Kifeas wrote:

You can have the luxury to shift currencies, if you are economically self sufficient and independed!

You know you have some nerve. Your government tries everything humanly possible to keep Turkish Cypriots under economic and political isolation and as a result, Turkish Cypriots get dependent on the single country they can depend on and then you turn around and blame Turkish Cypriots for it! I'd rather not have the "luxury" to shift currencies and live in my country without the fear of a hostile majority. That's a fair price I'm willing to pay, alright?
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Kifeas
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mete wrote:

Kifeas wrote:

You can have the luxury to shift currencies, if you are economically self sufficient and independed!

You know you have some nerve. Your government tries everything humanly possible to keep Turkish Cypriots under economic and political isolation and as a result, Turkish Cypriots get dependent on the single country they can depend on and then you turn around and blame Turkish Cypriots for it! I'd rather not have the "luxury" to shift currencies and live in my country without the fear of a hostile majority. That's a fair price I'm willing to pay, alright?


No, I have no nerve! I made a totally nutral and impartial obeservation, stating the mere facts only! It was not meant to be read in a judgmental way whatsoever, but only to be read in a discriptive way! Have I lied or even exagerated in what I have said? Have I blaimed anyone, set aside the Turkish Cypriots?
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pg

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="turkcyp"]
Mete wrote:

Let aside the fact that I do not see the future of Euro so bright, your suggestion is more political in nature. Just as the Greek Cypriots entry to Euro. Economically they were better of with CBP but it was a political decision. And even then statment of yours rests on the assumtion that in near future there will be a solution in Cyprus and we all will use Euro.


The CYP has had a rock solid exchange rate against the Euro (and ECU) for more than 15 years - so the fact that the British economy might be out of sync with the Euroland will not affect Cyprus more when using the Euro than when using the CYP. The main change will be that we will have much lower interest rates.
And of course that we will loose some independence - but who is really independent nowadays anyway...
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Mete
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kifeas wrote:

No, I have no nerve! I made a totally nutral and impartial obeservation, stating the mere facts only! It was not meant to be read in a judgmental way whatsoever, but only to be read in a discriptive way! Have I lied or even exagerated in what I have said? Have I blaimed anyone, set aside the Turkish Cypriots?

You know it's hard to judge someone's tone in an online forum like this so I apologize for misreading the tone of your post.
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Leon

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, for one, am dreading Cyprus's entry into the eurozone. Everybody I have spoken too here in Cyprus (I came here on the 22nd June) is worried about the adoption of the euro. It has been a very popular subject amongst the media too, and banks are predicted to lose 30,000,000CY as well as small businesses going down the pan or suffering majorly. Since Cyprus's accession to the European Union, which is typically super capitalist, the rich have got richer and the poor have got poorer. Traditional lifestyles have been destroyed and farms which have been in Cypriot families for generations have had to dispose of colossal amounts of fruit and other produce (my aunt has seen such elderly couples dumping them while sobbing inconsolably). Shifting the monetary system to some cash-grabbing pricks won't help. The euro is far from stable: it often fluctuates wildly and once lost 30% of its original value. Having the same interest rate across EUrope made Germany and Italy in recession when they needed lower interest rates and Ireland is suffering from high inflation because it needs a higher rate. Romania has also seen the bad effects of the EU which were inevitable really; due to the EU's authoritarian enforcing upon countries to allow an infinite number of migrants, educated Romanians have gone to Italy, Spain, and the UK where they can earn up to 10 times more than in their homeland. So these countries are getting full up with even more immigrants while poor Romania is losing an abundance of the skilled workers they crave.

Curse me all you like but I often feel like I'm part of a looked-down-on minority who is trying to preach the true prospective of what the EU and its uncalled for anti-agriculture anti-everything-that's-part-of-its-member-states'-indigenous-culture policies mean for small countries like Cyprus and Malta. I wish people paid more attention to the euroskeptics, who are making a lot of sense. . .
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repulsewarrior

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon, food for thought.

Cyprus was a prime example of a cooperative society. We still remain one of the most socialised countries in the world. Joining Europe, the European Union, is a natural extension of our desire for social-exchange with contemporary political states.

However, the change will marginalise our closeness to our Patrimony, as stewards to the history, and its heritage, that is attached to this island's land, already brought to the brink of extinction by Turkey's illegal occupation for now over thirty years.

Joining in the Euro will add more pressure on Turkish Cypriots to break with the subsistence that the Turkish lira offers. Greek Cypriots will have to reciprocate, (for Turkey's recognition), by providing the self-representation both societies desire, while reforming the Constitution of the Republic of Cyprus in a manner where it has no cultural bias, truly a representative of one State, equals, and as individuals.
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pg

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leon wrote:
It has been a very popular subject amongst the media too, and banks are predicted to lose 30,000,000CY as well as small businesses going down the pan or suffering majorly.


It is the small businesses that will pay 30,000,000 CYP less in fees to the banks...
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cypezokyli

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i beg to dissagree leon

Quote:
Since Cyprus's accession to the European Union, which is typically super capitalist, the rich have got richer and the poor have got poorer


it is not the accession of cyprus in EU that has brought such process. it happens everywhere, and throughout time. and the biggest gap between rich and poor in cyprus came after the stock exchange bubble which was before our entry in the EU.

the EU is ofcource capitalistic. but if there is a place in the world with some social benefits, it is the EU. Wink


Quote:
Traditional lifestyles have been destroyed and farms which have been in Cypriot families for generations have had to dispose of colossal amounts of fruit and other produce

this is happening for years in cyprus and it is not the fault of the EU
Quote:


Shifting the monetary system to some cash-grabbing pricks won't help.

its an independent central bank, just like the bank of cyprus - following more or less the same practises.
besides our aim was more political than economic


Quote:
The euro is far from stable: it often fluctuates wildly and once lost 30% of its original value.


ofcource it is stable, and it is stronger than the dollar

Quote:

Having the same interest rate across EUrope made Germany and Italy in recession when they needed lower interest rates and Ireland is suffering from high inflation because it needs a higher rate.

since different countries were at different points in the business cycle this was ofcource inevitable for the first stage.
nevertheless, they were willing to pay the price, and wait for a while till the eurozone becomes more homogenous.



Quote:
Curse me all you like but I often feel like I'm part of a looked-down-on minority who is trying to preach the true prospective of what the EU and its uncalled for anti-agriculture anti-everything-that's-part-of-its-member-states'-indigenous-culture policies mean for small countries like Cyprus and Malta. I wish people paid more attention to the euroskeptics, who are making a lot of sense. .
.

the EU is not anti-agriculture.
the exact opposite actually. it heavily subsidizes its farmers at the expense of the thrid world. so i really dont see where you got that.

the EU is also not against cultures. on the contrary actually



there is constructive criticism to make against the EU, but i dont think this is one of them
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Dhavlos
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks cypez....sorry leon, but you should really look at some 'pro eu' stuff....or even just books on how the eu works etc...ukip(any political party) are NOT a credible source.

Infact leon, the euro is quite a stable currency (it was in the first couple of years of its introduction that it dropped, but it has risen back since then...and is now stronger than the dollar i think. Infact, the euro is arguably becoming more influencial, in terms of thing being quoted in euros, not dollars....but in years to come, who knows)

and the freedom of movement thing.....it is this article, enshrined since the treaties of rome, that enables people to work anywhere in the eu, as sort of the forefront of the schnegen agreement (no checks between borders etc...no visas to travel round europe) and cheap holidays! and it is also the treaties of rome that have enabled people to buy holiday houses in spain or anywhere else in hte eu.
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