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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
| You see how your too proud to accept some parts of Cyprus history. As if it is your worst nightmare to acknowledge that Cyprus was Greek. |
? Its nothing about my pride. I am trying to understand you and your assertions.
| stavrizatz wrote: |
You compare the byzantine empire as the same type of ruler Lusignan and the British. 2230 years Cyprus was part of Greece, is that not thousands?! Then you could argue Greece only achieved independence in 1830, to sort that out... I am not trying to say that Cyprus has been part of the Greek state but part of the Greek civilisation. Cypriots acuired the Greek identity and that is the difference with the other occupiers that you mention. |
To me saying cyprus has been and is a part of the greek civilisation for thousands of years is not the same as saying cyprus has been and is a part of Greece for thousands of years. That is why I said I understand the assertion that Cyprus was / is predominantly culturally Greek for thousands of years but not that is was a part of Greece for thousands of years. You say the later but apparently mean the former - which is where my confusion comes from.
| stavrizatz wrote: |
If Cyprus was lived by Araps then I am fairly sure that Cyprus will be shown on maps as part of Asia. The association of Cyprus with Greece makes Cyprus European for similar reasons why Malta is European and not African.
As why Sarkozy said Lebanon and Islael are more European than Turkey, I guess he was talking about EU european. I suppose his criteria is how western one country is, unfortunately.
I see Turkey far more European than those countries. |
So is NZ european? Australia ? America ? Are they 'a part of UK or Europe and have been for hundreds of years' ? |
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Alexios
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 976
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To be European, is to my opinion a state of mind, a cultural heritage associated with the geographical area we call Europe which itself evolved through and from Greek and Roman principles and ideas. An "antropocentric" way of life really, which inevidably however intermingled and interchanged together with Christian tradition.
Democracy, Individual human rights and freedoms, welfare, tolerance etc are the main characteristics of European culture. Whether they are fully operational is a matter that can be discussed but nontheless they are institutionally in place in most EU countries .How deep they reach the mentality and behaviour of each European is a matter of the individual citizen but also varies greatly from country to country depending on history, democratic tradition, social characteristics etc. Consider Sweden and Cyprus for example. Both European and yet so different......
Regarding Turkey, my personal deepest concern is not the usual grumbling about religion, the economy of the country etc but what appears to be the willingness of the majority of Turkish people to accept, acknowledge and some times encourage the role of the army in the country. It may be justified and justifiable given the deep long standing problems Turkey faces, but different ways should be sought so that gradually the country becomes a truly democratic nation, without the iron fist of the Generals hanging over it's future. I am certain Erdwan recognizes this very basic necessity but then again the fear of islamism prevails it seems...Turkey needs a new Ataturk, not dressed in military uniform....... |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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i agree with most of the points alexios raised.
yet too often i find myself at pains when "europe" is defined on geographical terms. there are several countries in the geographical area of europe which i have a problem in accepting them as "european" - when it comes to their state, democracy , human rights etc.
thats why i disagree with people who try to exclude turkey based on geography or religion.
there are more serious aspects that turkey need to improve. |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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I think it is wrong to associate EU membership with 'being European'. One example is Russia which historically I think is a very European country, but not Russia nor the EU see them joining...
There is a union called United States of America and all American states can not join.
The present EU states has great reasons associated to security policy for the EU to push for getting Turkey in - not much other reasons.
From where I am sitting Turkey can use the EU accession as a great democratization process, but apart from that I do not think Turks has much to gain on pursuing EU membership. |
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