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Leon
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 240
Location: England
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Probably a simple explanation, but I just can't seem to work out when and when not to use 'Yunan', 'Yunanlı', and 'Rum' for 'Greek'. Help anyone?
Much appreciated.
Leon. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Leon wrote: |
Probably a simple explanation, but I just can't seem to work out when and when not to use 'Yunan', 'Yunanlı', and 'Rum' for 'Greek'. Help anyone?
Much appreciated.
Leon. |
“Yunan” the Turks call the citizen of Greece (Greece = Yunanistan.) Rum (Romios) they call the Greeks in general, regardless of whether they live in Greece or anywhere else in the world. Both terms are inapt (unscholarly,) like many other things Turkish.  |
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Leon
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 240
Location: England
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Ok, thanks. But what about 'Yunanlı'? And Kifeas... knows TURKISH    |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Leon wrote: |
| Ok, thanks. But what about 'Yunanlı'? And Kifeas... knows TURKISH |
Evet! Türkçe bilmek! |
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Leon
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 240
Location: England
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Should be 'biliyorum' if I'm not mistaken  . |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| Kifeas wrote: |
“Yunan” the Turks call the citizen of Greece (Greece = Yunanistan.) Rum (Romios) they call the Greeks in general, regardless of whether they live in Greece or anywhere else in the world. Both terms are inapt (unscholarly,) like many other things Turkish.
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Kifeas is right about Yunan but Rum doesn't mean Greeks in general. Rum is used for Greeks living in Cyprus and for the small Greek minority in Turkey. So for example, a Greek living in Istanbul would be called Rum, same as a Greek from Limassol but a Greek from Athens would not. As why this distinction, I don't know, I'm sure there are some explanations.
I don't know why Kifeas referred to Yunan and Rum as inapt. These are perfectly fine words.
As for Yunanli, I think it's short for Yunanistanli which means "from Greece". You can pretty much use Yunan/Yunanli interchangeably. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Leon wrote: |
| Should be 'biliyorum' if I'm not mistaken . |
bilmek means undertand, biliyorum means speak.. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Mete wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
“Yunan” the Turks call the citizen of Greece (Greece = Yunanistan.) Rum (Romios) they call the Greeks in general, regardless of whether they live in Greece or anywhere else in the world. Both terms are inapt (unscholarly,) like many other things Turkish.
|
Kifeas is right about Yunan but Rum doesn't mean Greeks in general. Rum is used for Greeks living in Cyprus and for the small Greek minority in Turkey. So for example, a Greek living in Istanbul would be called Rum, same as a Greek from Limassol but a Greek from Athens would not. As why this distinction, I don't know, I'm sure there are some explanations.
I don't know why Kifeas referred to Yunan and Rum as inapt. These are perfectly fine words.
As for Yunanli, I think it's short for Yunanistanli which means "from Greece". You can pretty much use Yunan/Yunanli interchangeably. |
Rum the Turks used to call all Greeks under the Ottoman Empire. The term was used by Greeks as well (Romios,) which came from the term Roman (citizen of the Roman empire) which after its splitting into West and East (Byzantine) Roman empires, it was retained, and then kept by the ottomans. Now it is not used by Greeks any more, because it is scholarly meaningless (inapt.)
The term Yunan (or Yunanistan) to describe the Greeks (Greece) comes from the term Ionia (Ionian) which was the historical Greek name referring to the entire area of western Anatolian coast (Smyrna, etc.) The Greek inhabitants of this area were called Ionian Greeks (hence the term Ionian civilization.) This historic geographical area is now part of Turkey, yet the Turks unscholarly call Greece (on the other side of the Aegean) as Yunanistan (Ionia.) In Greece Ionians are called only those Greeks that fled from Asia Minor (Western Anatolia) in 1922.
Last edited by Kifeas on Mon Apr 09, 2007 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| Kifeas wrote: |
bilmek means undertand, biliyorum means speak..
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Sorry but you're wrong again. Bilmek means "to know". Biliyorum means "I'm knowing" (but it translates to I know in English). So you had literally said "To know Turkish" and Leon said "I know Turkish". |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Should be 'biliyorum' if I'm not mistaken . |
bilmek means undertand, biliyorum means speak.. |
Bilmek is to Know/ understand, Biliyorum is the present tense of know or understand.
Speak is konusmak or konus, the s is pronounced as the english combination of sh. |
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Leon
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 240
Location: England
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| Mete wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
“Yunan” the Turks call the citizen of Greece (Greece = Yunanistan.) Rum (Romios) they call the Greeks in general, regardless of whether they live in Greece or anywhere else in the world. Both terms are inapt (unscholarly,) like many other things Turkish.
|
Kifeas is right about Yunan but Rum doesn't mean Greeks in general. Rum is used for Greeks living in Cyprus and for the small Greek minority in Turkey. So for example, a Greek living in Istanbul would be called Rum, same as a Greek from Limassol but a Greek from Athens would not. As why this distinction, I don't know, I'm sure there are some explanations.
I don't know why Kifeas referred to Yunan and Rum as inapt. These are perfectly fine words.
As for Yunanli, I think it's short for Yunanistanli which means "from Greece". You can pretty much use Yunan/Yunanli interchangeably. |
OK, I have seen the programme Biz/Emis translate 'Greek Cypriot' as 'Kıbrıslı Rumlar' (which would make sense in view of your explanation), but I understand that 'Kıbrıslı Yunan(lı)lar' is equally acceptable.
| Kifeas wrote: |
Rum the Turks used to call all Greeks under the Ottoman Empire. The term was used by Greeks as well (Romios,) which came from the term Roman (citizen of the Roman empire) which after its splitting into West and East (Byzantine) Roman empires, it was retained, and then kept by the ottomans. Now it is not used by Greeks any more, because it is scholarly meaningless.
The term Yunan (or Yunanistan) to describe the Greeks (Greece) comes from the term Ionia (Ionian) which was the historical Greek name referring to the entire area of western Anatolian coast (Smyrna, etc.) The Greek inhabitants of this area were called Ionian Greeks (hence the term Ionian civilization.) This historic geographical area is now part of Turkey, yet the Turks unscholarly call Greece (on the other side of the Aegean) as Yunanistan (Ionia.) In Greece Ionians are called only those Greeks that fled from Asia Minor (Western Anatolia) in 1922. |
If you don't mind me asking, how do you know English so fluently? I always assumed you were Cyprus-reared, unless I'm mistaken and you were brought up in an anglophone community? Shed the light, Kifeas!
Leon. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Mete wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
bilmek means undertand, biliyorum means speak..
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Sorry but you're wrong again. Bilmek means "to know". Biliyorum means "I'm knowing" (but it translates to I know in English). So you had literally said "To know Turkish" and Leon said "I know Turkish". |
Turkceyi anlarim, fakat o kadar iyi konusamam. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Leon wrote: |
| If you don't mind me asking, how do you know English so fluently? I always assumed you were Cyprus-reared, unless I'm mistaken and you were brought up in an anglophone community? Shed the light, Kifeas! |
What makes you think that those brought up in an Anglophone community can speak better English than those that were not?
PS: I studied in the US! |
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Leon
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Posts: 240
Location: England
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| If you don't mind me asking, how do you know English so fluently? I always assumed you were Cyprus-reared, unless I'm mistaken and you were brought up in an anglophone community? Shed the light, Kifeas! |
What makes you think that those brought up in an Anglophone community can speak better English than those that were not?
PS: I studied in the US! |
I never said that and definitely don't think that, either (Shilpa Shetty vs. Jade Goody is a perfect example!), but I am surprised that you (and Shilpa, for the record, as well as Bollywood actress Aishwarya Rai, from what I heard in a brief interview she was giving), as a foreigner and Cyprus-bred man, can speak English with such fluency and little (or no, from what I have seen in your posts) mistakes in grammar.
When I write in Greek, half of the time I don't know when I've made a mistake (which is never related to spelling, but rather grammar and syntax), although I do consider myself quite good.
There are Cypriots in England who've lived here for 20+ years and still have thick accents and bad mistakes.
Leon. |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Mete wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
bilmek means undertand, biliyorum means speak..
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Sorry but you're wrong again. Bilmek means "to know". Biliyorum means "I'm knowing" (but it translates to I know in English). So you had literally said "To know Turkish" and Leon said "I know Turkish". |
Turkceyi anlarim, fakat o kadar iyi konusamam. |
I am amazed Kifeas. Good for you man. You are a better man than I. I do not have the first clue about speaking greek. Bravo! I will learn too. It's good to know your enemies i guess.  |
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