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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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city
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3370
Location: Larnaca area
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| depurple wrote: |
What do most Germans say about the Holocaust?
Don't most Germans say it was a lie? |
I don't know where you got that one from. Most Germans do not deny the Holocaust. |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2876
Location: Australia
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city go ask one!!!!!!!
cheers |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2876
Location: Australia
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MOST Germans say it WAS all a Jewish conspiracy!
They say only a few Jews got killed!
They say that most Jews where victims of the war!
They say the numbers where exaggerated by the Jews!
IN other words they say exactly what the Turks say about the Armenian Genocide!
BUT City IF you say that most Germans do not deny the Holocaust then tell me WHY most Turks DO deny the Armenian Genocide?
It is a SHAME to admit past atrocities?
OR will it open up many compensation claims as it has done with Germany today!
cheers
PS Many Greeks ARE waiting for Turkey to join the EU so that they can claim back ALL the properties they lost in 1922!
This can only happen when Turkey joins the EU or becomes civilized!
Which will come first ONLY God knows? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| depurple wrote: |
| MOST Germans say it WAS all a Jewish conspiracy! |
Not only inaccurate but also I would imagine deeply offensive to Germans today. It is a crime in Germany to deny the holocust (a bad law imo but one that exists none the less). Who do you think passed that law if it was not Germans themselves?
| depurple wrote: |
BUT City IF you say that most Germans do not deny the Holocaust then tell me WHY most Turks DO deny the Armenian Genocide?
It is a SHAME to admit past atrocities?
OR will it open up many compensation claims as it has done with Germany today!
cheers
PS Many Greeks ARE waiting for Turkey to join the EU so that they can claim back ALL the properties they lost in 1922!
This can only happen when Turkey joins the EU or becomes civilized!
Which will come first ONLY God knows? |
Germany lost the war. Turkey did not.
Try watching 'The fog of war' - which is basically a feature film interview with Robert McNamara. In ONE NIGHT the US fire bombed and killed 100,000 Japanese men women and children - all civilians. In ONE NIGHT. The General in charge of that operation had no doubt at all that had they lost the war he would have been tried and convicted as a war criminal. Even before the US has dropped the first nuclear weapon ever used in the history of mankind, they had already destroyed 58% of Yokohama, 51% of Tokyo, 99% of Toyama, 40% of Nagoya, 35.1% of oskak and the list goes on and on. How many US citizens do you think accept that their country , their state committed war crimes and crimes against humanity? When will the 'civilised' world be recognising these crimes? How much does their glossing over today relate to the US being the victors? |
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city
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3370
Location: Larnaca area
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| depurple wrote: |
| MOST Germans say it WAS all a Jewish conspiracy! |
dp, I am sure you know better then me being a German and living here for 30+ years.
| depurple wrote: |
| BUT City IF you say that most Germans do not deny the Holocaust then tell me WHY most Turks DO deny the Armenian Genocide? |
THIS you should ask the Turks maybe, not me. |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2876
Location: Australia
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Maybe Germans in Germans are afraid to let the ghost out of the cupboards BUT not in Australia:
You will get many Germans speaking what they think here:
You will also get many Cypriots doing the same:
There are many Greek Cypriot in Australia that criticize EOKA B and there are many Greek Cypriot who blame Greece and many Turkish Cypriot who blame Denktash and Turkey:
You see here in Australia there cant get anyone assassinated IF they speak there mind:
Keep up the good work cheers
Afedasay! |
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Get Real!
Warnings : 3
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Nicosia
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Erolz...
| Quote: |
| It is a crime in Germany to deny the holocust (a bad law imo but one that exists none the less). |
I'm impressed Erolz... so I'm not alone in believing that such law is a violation of human rights, or do you have a different reason for your beliefs? |
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Get Real!
Warnings : 3
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Nicosia
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DP...
| Quote: |
You will get many Germans speaking what they think here:
You will also get many Cypriots doing the same:
There are many Greek Cypriot in Australia that criticize EOKA B and there are many Greek Cypriot who blame Greece and many Turkish Cypriot who blame Denktash and Turkey:
You see here in Australia there cant get anyone assassinated IF they speak there mind: |
It's nothing to do with "freedom of speech"; you'll find that many people, of every country's Diaspora, gradually detach themselves from their country of origin and behave in ways their compatriots would find difficult to comprehend.
It's the sure sign that your soul has lost touch with your "motherland" and your kids probably won't even be able to point to it on a map!
Too many decades away from home means you can no longer relate to what was once "home". |
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AQMessiah
Senior Villager
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 114
Location: New York
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First off...DP, you may be thinking of the (few) Iranians denying the holocaust. The Germans that I have spoken to show no sign of denying such events.
Second...Xenos, here's some more blatant proof that clearly explains that what you have been fed over the past hundred or so years is clearly a lie. http://www.awm.gov.au/stolenyears/ww1/turkey/story2.asp
| Quote: |
British and Indian troops in Kut, on the Tigris River in Mesopotamia withstood a five-month siege but were finally forced to surrender in April 1916. Over 13,000 British and Indian troops were marched 1,100 kilometres across the desert.
The garrison included nine mechanics of the Australian Flying Corps. Only two would survive the nightmare march. “We were driven along like beasts,” one of the survivors recalled, “to drop out was to die.” Three-quarters of those who left Kut died in captivity, many while building a railway through the Taurus Mountains. |
Pretty ironic how the Armenians can claim such events yet they're all lies.
Lastly...erolz, you say that Germany lost the war, Turkey did not. Turkey DID lose the war, they aligned themselves with the Germans/Austrians and eventually lost. I'm confused as to how you can say that they did not lose. And what exactly was the point of the movie you described? |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| AQMessiah wrote: |
Lastly...erolz, you say that Germany lost the war, Turkey did not. Turkey DID lose the war, they aligned themselves with the Germans/Austrians and eventually lost. I'm confused as to how you can say that they did not lose. |
I guess what I mean is that Turkey did not loose the struggle (if you prefer) against seeing itself destroyed and divided by external powers working with seditious groups at home, in the aftermath of WWI - which you are correct it was on the loosing side of.
| AQMessiah wrote: |
And what exactly was the point of the movie you described? |
My point is that the General quoted and McNamara himself knew a 'truth' - namely that you can commit war crimes and crimes against humanity knowing they are such at the time without fear of censure - as long as you are on the victorious side. For me it is hypocritical for states like the US to lecture other states on the need to formally recognise atrocious acts they committed in the past, whilst not doing so itself. |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2876
Location: Australia
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We will know in a few weeks when the US congress either passes it or fail to acknowledge it!
What is Turkey going to do IF the USA agree with it?
NOTHING!
Just like it did with France!
It will bark for a few days and then someone will throw Turkey a bone to chew on and the barking will stop!
Why doesn't Turkey just call it a day and solve ALL its past discrepancies and join the EU and become a true European identity!
I rather be called a EU citizen of Cyprus THAN a Greek Cypriot any day!
TURKEY WAKE UP it is 2007 for crying out loud!
The Ottoman empire is dead and gone and so is the Cold war
Cyprus is NOW a EU country and ITS all over red rover!
Macho Man is gone!
He is replace by Triple H!
Anna Nicole Smith is gone!
She is replaced by Britney Spears!
As soon as Turkey joins the EU and Cyprus is UNITED there are 1000s like me who want to invest in Turkey and take out our investments and interests from India, China and Indonesia!
cheers Marina Mou once again! |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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I haven't met any German who denies the holocaust, so I don't know how DP you came with that impression. Correct me if I am wrong City but i heard that in schools in Germany they take kids to the concentration camps to show that the those crimes should not repeated again, the svastinga is not allowed and generally the education emphasises that the Germans should be sorry for the crimes of the past.
Well I think Germany took it to the other extreme but when will we see other countries that commited similar crimes do the same (maybe not that extend)?
What it is even more tragic is that most Turkish Cypriots on this forum refuse to acknowledge the Armenian genocide...SHAME |
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CherkezTC
Villager
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 7
Location: London
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While I don't doubt that many Armenians got killed during WW1, I can assure you that every single one of the Armenian videos and documents describing the events are totally one sided and fail to mention so much that was done by their own people that its very difficult to take seriously. I have yet to see any Armenian video that mentions the Hunchak and Dashnak rebellion movements which is a bloody travesty. There is so much evidece these rebellion movements existed from documents to the killings of governors, police chiefs and even the attempted assassination of Sultan Abdulhamid II. The Armeninans claim to have "just" formed a resistance but these rebellion movements were formed as early as 1887-90. We know they formed a resistance yet they fail to mention where they got SO many guns and weapons from, Russia! (since the Dashnak movement was formed in Tiflis, Russian Empire). Theres even proof of these rebellion movements in the Russian archives. There is never a single mention on the massacres the Armenians were responsible for during those times which is just an insult and shocking to say the least! The same kind of proof the Armenians have, the Turks also have on the Armenian massacres of Muslims. Pictures, documents, writings by missionaries...etc.
There is no way on earth, I repeat NO WAY ON EARTH that 1.5 million Armenians died in Ottoman Turkey. It is not possible. There was only around 1.5 million Armenians as a whole living in Ottoman Turkey to begin with. These figures don't just come from Turkish sources but rather Western ones including The French Yellow Book, Encyclopedia Britannica, Annual Register (London) and so on..
When the Ottomans were held by the British at the time (the occupying force) they tried their hardest to prosecute the Ottomans with the claims of the Armenians yet found them not guilty. The Paris Peace conference heard the Armenians' claims and dismissed their case and said a genocide did not occur, the Armenians didn't accept and were given another try at the same conference and again their case was dismissed and were told a genocide did not occur. Its funny how the French did this only to change their minds 100 YEARS later when they needed to kiss Armenian ass! 
The Armenians themselves dont know what happened because since the "genocide" their stories have changed time and time again often contradicting one another. At first they claimed 4 million Armenians had died, when this was ridiculed they agreed to Encyclopedia Britannicas 1918 edition to the figure of 600.000 Armenians dead. It's only with time and propaganda that the figure has risen to millions yet again.
Turkey keeps offering for historians from both sides to form a comittee and investigate the matter. They want the Armenians to open their archives so both Armenians and Turkish researchers can go in there and study these documents (the Turkish archives are open, some of which have been online since 1995 regarding the Armenian-Ottoman relations). The Armenians refuse simply by saying that they know a genocide happened so they dont need to have it investigated, they refuse to open their archives to Turkish historians. If they are so desperate to get a result and if theyre so sure that it did occur then I dont understand why they would hold back from an investigation which would obviously be for their own benefit. Everytime Turks provide documents or evidence it is just dismissed as propaganda because the Armenians have so much "proof" that not only contradicts the Turkish claims but also their own stories from past 100 years!
If people were to look past the propaganda then they would see the questions that arise that are completely ignored by the Armenians. Turkey doesn't even deny a lot of Armenians got killed but they deny the numbers which Armenians claim because it is just ludacris to suggest 1.5 million people got killed. Turkey claims 300.000 people, Encyclopedia Britannica claims 600.000, I personally think it was higher then 300k but either way it is alot of people regardless.
I'm just fed up of watching and reading so many Armenian sources with them failing to mention anything they were responsible for. It is just sickening for them to ignore and turn a blind eye to their own wrong doings, refusing the opening of their archives while expecting Turkey to admit to "genocide". Armenian people are so brainwashed that it's almost as if they're raised to seek pity, they haven't the capability to evaluate anything for themselves. Everytime I get into this discussion with them I always hear "why doesn't Turkey open up the archives then?", who is telling these people that Turkey isn't opening archives? And why? Because the archives are open! Why do they always say it's Turkey refusing investigations, when in reality it's the other way round?
The Armenians have put forward such utter crap as evidence there is no way on earth Turkey will ever admit to anything. It makes my blood boil when I read BS like the "Hitler Quote" 
| Quote: |
The particular statement was supposed to have been made at a meeting of the top German staff of the Obersalzberg on August 22, 1939. The document was released to the international press covering the Nuremberg War Crimes trials on Friday, November 23, 1945. The trials had commenced that Monday. The document was one of several made available to the press that day. Two-hundred-fifty copies were given to press correspondents, but only five copies were given to the 17 defense counsels - 24 hours before the Court convened on Monday!
Much later in the trial, the German defense lawyers were able to introduce the most complete account of the address, taken down by German Admiral Hermann Boehm, which runs to 12 pages in translation. There is no mention of the Armenians or the rest of the "quotation." |
This whole thing was uncovered by an Armenian historian by the name of Dr. Robert John. CLICK HERE TO READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE
I know Turkey is no angel or innocent but the Armenians have changed their version of events SO many times and used such cutter garbage to put forward their claims that there is no way Turkey is ever going to admit to anything unless Armenians agree to an investigation by international historians (and rightly so). It's them who need to grow up and start going about it in the right way instead of feeding propaganda to the world and trying to get somewhere by political means. The Armenian Question isn't a matter for politicians to sort out it's for historians, simple as that, so long as they keep refusing they can keep on crying!
It's not about denial at all it's about the blatant fact that Armenia has been putting forward dodgy and highly unreliable "evidence" for the past 100 years and Turkey is very well aware of this  hence their stance on the subject. If it was truly how the Armenians claim then Turkey would simply of said that this was down to the Ottoman Empire and that TR was established after 1915 by Ataturk who fought the same Ottomans to get the Turkish Republic we have today. Whatever truth there is in their claims, they have completely ruined their chances of Turkeys acceptance by lying and fabricating everything at any given chance. I don't know how they will get what they want without digging up dirt on themselves now. Why do you think it has taken the world so long to accept "genocide"? Come on! At the time it was always dismissed yet 100 years later politicians have decided that it happened without a single investigation? And Turkey is looked down upon because of this... What a joke! 
Turkey should (and mind you pretty much does) admit to a lot of Armenians being killed but they should not be condemned or accused of "genocide" without a fair trial.
BTW: Just recently it was agreed that they would investigate but the day before the first stage of the investigation the Armenian historian pulled out. Dear oh dear... |
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