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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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EU is not a real democracy. I don't think any country in the world hasreal democracy. All the countries are controrel by an elite group that makes decisions on behalf of everyone. Real democracy in EU is what the citizens of EU want and I quarantee you that most EU citizens don't want Turkey in the EU. EU is also controlled by an elite and if Cyprus vetos Turkey, Cyprus will do so with the support of others such as France, Germany who will not veto themselves (for strategic reasons) but encourage Cyprus to do so.
Lets don't fool ourselves that Cyprus, Greece or other small countries have power in the EU equivalent to 1/25. I assure you than US has more power in the EU than any other country. |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2876
Location: Australia
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stavrizatz
You are right about MOST countries don't want Turkey in the EU!
But you tell me why?
And I will tell you why?
And lets see if you are on the right track with EU thinking and criteria:
As for the US having power in the EU?
Better ask France if they are a member! BUT you still don't understand do you?
After 9/11 everything changed: The US looks at Turkey differently: Look at the PKK the USA have not lifted a finger to help Turkey:
The USA will vote on the Armenian genocide soon and the USA will give the Kurds Kilkurk:
So are you confident that the USA will tell the EU what to do?
WELL?
Let Wait and see:
Grab the popcorn!
cheers again |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
| I don't think any country in the world hasreal democracy. |
You say this but you also say (as I understand it) that you reject a Cyprus solution that gives the Turkish Cypriot community an element of political equality and / or ability to veto decisions in certain specific areas because it is not real democracy. Can you see why this leaves me unsure as to why you reject the idea of a degree of political equality / communal veto rights in a Cyprus solution ? It sounds like you reject them because they are not real democracy but you admit no one has real democracy ?
| stavrizatz wrote: |
| Real democracy in EU is what the citizens of EU want and I quarantee you that most EU citizens don't want Turkey in the EU. EU is also controlled by an elite and if Cyprus vetos Turkey, Cyprus will do so with the support of others such as France, Germany who will not veto themselves (for strategic reasons) but encourage Cyprus to do so. |
What about issues like direct trade / easing international isolation of Turkish Cypriot community? Do you really think that most EU citizens are against , for example, the EU commission's own original plan for meeting this EU agreed policy objective? You think they even care one way or another? It was the Republic of Cyprus that blocked this EU commission plan.
| stavrizatz wrote: |
Lets don't fool ourselves that Cyprus, Greece or other small countries have power in the EU equivalent to 1/25. |
But you seem convinced (again as I understand it) that even limited political equality for the Turkish Cypriot community within a united Cyprus would give the Turkish Cypriot community more power than the Greek Cypriot one ?
By the way the Republic of Cyprus's right to veto within the EU does not give it on paper 1/25 of the power in the EU it gives it a potential 25/24 power. That is technically and legally at least the Republic of Cyprus has the right within the EU to thwart the will of all other 24 members should it wish to exercise that right. Of course in the real world there would be a cost to pay for such action. It just seems to me that you are more than willing to accept this reality of how a veto works and what power it bestows in regard to the Republic of Cyprus within the EU but seem to have a very different view of the same issues when it comes to a potential Turkish Cypriot communal veto in a untied Cyprus? |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| With this in mind I think that the Turkish Cypriot community should give stronger support the to veto rights of the Republic of Cyprus. |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| pg wrote: |
| Does anyone think the French oil company Total will be bidding this summer? |
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=67510
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Some companies were not contacted directly; the message was conveyed through their governments. Total was one of them. Instead of holding direct talks with them, the Turkish side went directly to the French authorities.
Some of governments assured Turkey that they were not interested in controversial areas. Some on the other hand played deaf. One of them was the usual suspect: France. Ankara did not get any feed back from Paris. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| pg wrote: |
| With this in mind I think that the Turkish Cypriot community should give stronger support the to veto rights of the Republic of Cyprus. |
Sorry pg but I am confused by this ? The Republic of Cyprus has veto rights in the EU. It is a done deal, its not being negotiated for and neither is it subject to having support from the Turkish Cypriot community. I am not aware that the Turkish Cypriot community or leadership is arguing that the Republic of Cyprus should not have such rights within the EU. So what exactly is it that you think the Turkish Cypriot community should be doing re giving 'stronger support to veto rights of the Republic of Cyprus' ? |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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I said stronger support, not stringer veto.
What I wanted to point out is that I sometimes get the impression that the Turkish Cypriot side does not think it is right that the Republic of Cyprus has a veto on Turkey's progress in its EU accession. Naturally we should not generalize too much, but when I hear some voices like that from Turkish Cypriots, I hear very few other Turkish Cypriot voices defending the veto rights of the Republic of Cyprus. |
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