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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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This is exactly y point that we cant agree on the past. So instead, we should all try (or at least, in terms of education, we should teach our children) learn both sides of the story. If we do that, we can then decide for ourselves which pieces of evidence etc are more likely and which are more propaganda etc. In this way, we can all have honest discussions and debates in the open.
Shit, maybe our kids may find a 'common ground' on what the past actually was!!!  |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| We just need to be aware of that we at some point will be waisting time on the past - time that could be devoted to the future. |
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Chapfallen
Warnings : 7
Senior Villager
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 464
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We are all have the responsibility to share our point of view on history because it is the only way to show to our children’s about our pathetic past and about the relativity of every reality, I will teach that to my children and I will learn them to have their own opinion and their own learning mechanism with the ability to find where I’m wrong and correct me.
By keep our past in darkness or in a static correctness we are feeding our demons because nothing is static (ta panta rei - everything is moving Iraklitos) and nothing is absolute.
History is not static, new things are coming from the relativity of the past every day but also our kids must have the ability to extract their own conclusions depending on their own internal structure. That’s why history is moving and the only thing stays is the unquestionable facts that there also moving by the extraction of different conclusions by combinations based in every person reality.
Static is death static is our dead past, history is alive and moving with us.
History is a tool to build the future and the correct is not to present the absolute truth but a truth that can be useful for our goals.
In a darkness situation our demons will become strongest and they will some day explode, in the static correctness we give to our kids a virtual weapon to fight and in the end humiliate in the real fight.
This is life this is democracy some people must at least open exit doors to their demons and even if they are unable to heal their conscious because of ego they will become better persons in their subconscious by thinking the other opinion and by open the doors of the self questionableness (This depends in how strong is the conflicts and if the inside demons will be shake or not).
This is the start of wisdom in a personality.
By giving to our children a prefixed unquestionable reality and absolute right we are creating stupid lambs not persons (this is the church way the mental death).
In the other hand the darkness would give to our children’s the ignorance and there is no wisdom with out knowledge and the situation will get worst in a world where every one tries to eat you.
So in general in a utopian world where we are all going to erase our memories and start again maybe I’ll consider to let my children to this cruel world with out their armory. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| pg wrote: |
| We just need to be aware of that we at some point will be waisting time on the past - time that could be devoted to the future. |
PG I am not sure that your idea of 'drawing a line under the past' is the same as mine or even perhaps cahit's.
If we are to draw a line under the past and try and move on from where we are now, then it is in the past that 200,000 Greek Cypriot used to live in the north. Is that what you mean by drawing a line under the past? I suspect it is not - but maybe I have you wrong here? I suspect that your idea of drawing a line under the past means drawing a line under 74 and not from post 74? |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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| erolz wrote: |
| pg wrote: |
| We just need to be aware of that we at some point will be waisting time on the past - time that could be devoted to the future. |
PG I am not sure that your idea of 'drawing a line under the past' is the same as mine or even perhaps cahit's.
If we are to draw a line under the past and try and move on from where we are now, then it is in the past that 200,000 Greek Cypriot used to live in the north. Is that what you mean by drawing a line under the past? I suspect it is not - but maybe I have you wrong here? I suspect that your idea of drawing a line under the past means drawing a line under 74 and not from post 74? |
My concept is a bit different.
I do not suggest to forget the past - not from any particular point in time.
Instead I am suggesting the discussion of the past and the one on the future can proceed at seperate tracks.
For sure the clarifying the history will have a healing affect on all Cypriots. However, I would say that less than 1% of the discussion on history in this forum has that effect. It would instead need to be done in a more organized way - perhaps like the South African one.
IMO the historical discussions we have are more destructive than constructive - and the main problem I see is that most people are attempting to conclude judgment from this destructive discussion, and use these on the discussion on the future.
I believe the discussion about the future could be much better if it is more disconnected from the discussion about the past. |
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Chapfallen
Warnings : 7
Senior Villager
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 464
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| Quote: |
For sure the clarifying the history will have a healing affect on all Cypriots. However, I would say that less than 1% of the discussion on history in this forum has that effect. It would instead need to be done in a more organized way - perhaps like the South African one.
IMO the historical discussions we have are more destructive than constructive - and the main problem I see is that most people are attempting to conclude judgment from this destructive discussion, and use these on the discussion on the future. |
I do not disagree on that but this is what the communities have to do and organize in a government level here we just collect shits and we are in a battlefield, no one can teach here but also we can all teach our point of view by putting our mind demons in the battlefield.
By pretending what everything is fine and what we can move on with all this demons in our subconscious is ridiculous. These demons have to come to surface and expose to the light and melted by the sun of the other opinion because we all have a light inside we are all have our own truth.
A common agreement in the history or in a relative matter in general is not always necessary most important is the common understanding and to be able to fix our learning mechanism and to limit the fake demons.
And the fake demons can not survive in the battlefield and in the exposure on the light.
I have much experience in Forums and I have to say what they help in improving the understanding of the other opinion and to limiting the demons even if they help in the empower of the ego they always correct our logic even if we are not able to accept it because of ego.
This is the information world this is the internet world.
We have mechanism to make our battles with out killing each other.
Of course not all the forums doing the above, for example in a Christians forum I used to be a member the other opinion was forbidden, this is the key, the democracy and the balance of powers can do miracles.
In a forum where the balance of power is against the other opinion your voice must be louder and it is not always successful.
Of course we can’t save Cyprus in a forum because we are not politicians or a mass media but we can save our self and our children’s in this endless shit hole by providing them the right and flexible education.
Even if the division will be final we have to stick here and fight our demons because we can. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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Chapfallen
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city
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3370
Location: Larnaca area
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| pg wrote: |
My concept is a bit different.
I do not suggest to forget the past - not from any particular point in time.
Instead I am suggesting the discussion of the past and the one on the future can proceed at separate tracks.
For sure the clarifying the history will have a healing affect on all Cypriots. However, I would say that less than 1% of the discussion on history in this forum has that effect. It would instead need to be done in a more organized way - perhaps like the South African one.
IMO the historical discussions we have are more destructive than constructive - and the main problem I see is that most people are attempting to conclude judgment from this destructive discussion, and use these on the discussion on the future.
I believe the discussion about the future could be much better if it is more disconnected from the discussion about the past. |
I believe this is a very 'healthy' approach. Cause from what I see here in the forum people go round and round in circles always about the same issues from the past. They can't agree and keep argueing. And by doing so they forget to pay attention to the future and find ways to improve the situation for following generations.
Of course a common agreement needs to be found regarding past events, but the lack of that agreement at the moment shall not prevent people from developing a prosperous future for the whole island. |
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Dream_Merchant
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 422
Location: Limassol
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| city wrote: |
| pg wrote: |
My concept is a bit different.
I do not suggest to forget the past - not from any particular point in time.
Instead I am suggesting the discussion of the past and the one on the future can proceed at separate tracks.
For sure the clarifying the history will have a healing affect on all Cypriots. However, I would say that less than 1% of the discussion on history in this forum has that effect. It would instead need to be done in a more organized way - perhaps like the South African one.
IMO the historical discussions we have are more destructive than constructive - and the main problem I see is that most people are attempting to conclude judgment from this destructive discussion, and use these on the discussion on the future.
I believe the discussion about the future could be much better if it is more disconnected from the discussion about the past. |
I believe this is a very 'healthy' approach. Cause from what I see here in the forum people go round and round in circles always about the same issues from the past. They can't agree and keep argueing. And by doing so they forget to pay attention to the future and find ways to improve the situation for following generations.
Of course a common agreement needs to be found regarding past events, but the lack of that agreement at the moment shall not prevent people from developing a prosperous future for the whole island. |
Without the past the present can not be defined and the future can not be directed.
To say to put away the past and move to a future is meaningless, because the past can easily repeat itself and THEN we will be moving in senseless destructive circles. At least now all we do is argue. |
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RudeGal
Senior Villager
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 385
Location: London
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| Dream_Merchant wrote: |
| Without the past the present can not be defined and the future can not be directed. |
So true!
| Dream_Merchant wrote: |
| To say to put away the past and move to a future is meaningless, because the past can easily repeat itself and THEN we will be moving in senseless destructive circles. At least now all we do is argue. |
So how to break the cycle?
Understanding the root causes of the conflict, even if we can't agree on all the details, is fundamental, and to be frank, not sure if we have done that. If we understand why something bad happened, easier to prevent it happening again. |
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city
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 3370
Location: Larnaca area
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| Dream_Merchant wrote: |
Without the past the present can not be defined and the future can not be directed.
To say to put away the past and move to a future is meaningless, because the past can easily repeat itself and THEN we will be moving in senseless destructive circles. At least now all we do is argue. |
Dream merchant, I did not say 'to put the past away'. I said it might be a good way to think about developing the future while discussing and trying to agree on the past. If you only do the latter you will miss your future. |
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