| Which is the Fairest solution for the Cyprus problem? |
| A solution based on / or similar to the Anan Plan |
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25% |
[ 4 ] |
| A solution based on / or similar to the 1960 constitution |
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31% |
[ 5 ] |
| Union of Cyprus with Greece |
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6% |
[ 1 ] |
| Devision: two separate and independent countries |
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25% |
[ 4 ] |
| Other |
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12% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 16 |
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| Author |
Message |
stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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Viewpoint:
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| stavrizatz whats frightening is you are a young Greek Cypriot with blinkered views |
What’s frightening is that you are so close-minded that you believe that anyone with opposite views is blinkered. Tell me what made you jump to this assumptions. You don’t like to accept some truths, is that why? About Thrace I was never so sure, and still I am not. I didn’t read anything on the subject and I formed an opinion based on what I was told (I accept that maybe that opinion was false). If I was narrow-minded like you, I wouldn’t be open to other possibilities.
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| …Greek Cypriots wanting to turn Cyprus into Greece. This was an error which led to where we are today. |
Wanting re-union with the motherland after 800 years under foreign rule is error as if the people following their heart could foresee the future so as not to make such error. What is the right thing to do, who decides borders…why are there borders in the first place? What is fair? The right of self-determination exists so as to protect the human rights of people in a place to determine their own future. Cyprus does not have that right, do you think is fair?
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| you need to go talk to people who lived in those times not only Greek Cypriots but Turkish Cypriots as well. |
In fact I was a member of the bi-communal committee of Melbourne-Australia. There were some projects including the La trope project and some other such as the Greek/Turkish – Cypriot radio, a couple of documentaries and other events. I know many Turkish Cypriots; older and younger and I am friends with some of them. The truth is that we didn’t really discuss the past but mainly about the future. All I know is that some of the Turkish Cypriots I know are disliked by the Turkish Cypriot community here in Australia. Here is a letter of one of my Turkish Cypriot friends, read maybe a different Turkish Cypriot point of view.
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Hi Stavros!
How are you my friend? And the Cyprus.. Its summer now, so life is going well. The season has began, Ayia Napa is getting more crowded day by day. It’s good to see old Greek Cypriot friends at the Ayia Napa streets. To be
honest, last summer and the summer before I was sometimes feeling as a foreigner in the other part of my country but this year when i see some old friends at there i am feeling much closer to the people there.
And the politics... tomorrow there will be elections at south. In fact i am not following the politics that much over there. But what i know is that AKEL has got the greatest vote potential, which is followed by DISI and DIKO respectively. A Turkish Cypriot 'Nese Yasin' has also involved to the elections at EDI. And as i know there will
be about 270 Turkish Cypriots who has got the right to vote at this elections. One other interesting thing is that as I heared Tasos Papadopoulos has got the support of %70 of the Greek Cypriots. However, his party is following Dimitris Hristofyas' party according to the sample elections. As I said I am not following that much about what is happening at the south. But i think i will begin to do that as well. What i know is that, it is impossibe for the Mihalis Papapetru to win this game and be the leader party. But i really would like him to be the leader party.
This is because i belive that he can fight for the rights of both of the cypriot community. In fact i was also believing to the AKEL but i think they didn't do too much thing for the solution.
What i believe is that we cypriots should forget the pass and talk for an acceptable solution between ourselves. The slogan might be like that : ' Foreigners keep out, we Cypriots will find the solution one day.'
Stavros, Greek Cypriots should understand that we Turkish Cypriots are not happy with this situation. I know that as you wrote at your book 82% of the Cyprus' population is occurred from Greek Cypriots. So you don't want to share the government with us. You are looking us as a minority. But you should know that we are not happy with the Turkish invasion as well. They are ruling us and they never left us to decide our future. In other words, Greek Cypriots are saying that Cyprus is occupied by the Turkish troops. That what i am also saying and most of the Turkish Cypriots knows that and they hate from this situation. The difference is that you just lost some of your lands because of this invasion but we lost our freedom, our identity and our culture. We are living this invasion ever day and every hour in our lives.
Some weeks ago they have count the number of people in north and according to that they have said that the population in north is about 264.000. I never believe that, i am quite sure that it is over 400.000. And what i know is that we 'Turkish Cypriots 'are about 80.000 or something and most of the rest is Turkish settlers. So we are not happy with this situation. Turkey is planning to delete Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus. As more settlers are coming more Turkish Cypriots are immigrating to other countries. I think they are telling this situation assimilation or osmosis. Trust me one day will come that you will not find any Turkish Cypriots in this island and trust me that the population in the north will be doubled compared to the south. I don't know whether Papadopulos will be happy with this situation or not. Can you put your self to my position for a while. I know that most of the Greek Cypriots
doesn't want to live with us and they don't want to share the government with us on the basis of %30-%70, which was like in Republic of Cyprus. What they want is to own the whole island and the government and accept us as a minority. What they want to do is applying this osmosis project and delete us from Cyprus in long term. On the
other hand occupying power Turkey is doing the same thing with a difference that they just want the north of the island ' just for now, i don't know their long term plans ' but what i know is, if they find the suitable position they will not have any doubt to take the other part of the island as well. So everyone is trying to finish Turkish Cypriots. So what about us!!!
Anyway Stavros, i wish we could find an acceptable solution between us. I think there are two main problems which makes the solution hard. For your point of view, this is turning back to your lands. And for my ' Turkish Cypriots ' point of view, it is safety and security. But for our 'both yours and mine ' point of view, the main problem is escaping from Turkish troops and settlers. I think we should initially work for ending this occupation and sending back all the settlers. Than, we should talk about finding an agreement on federation basis, which has been signed between Makarios and Denktas in 1977 and again between Denktas and Vasiliu in 1979. May be once we make the agreement on federation basis, the new generation after some decades will sit and talk again for another situation.
All the best my friend.. (Hi to Gwen)
Name |
Comments?
Hammerskin wrote:
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Either you like it or not on this Island live : Greeks , Turks , and other nationalities.
Either you like it or not, the Greeks are the main National group of Cyprus.
Either you like it or not, EOKA opposed the English rule.
I just can't realise what's the matter with you people. Your mother land turkey has already took over the half of cyprus . |
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zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
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It's a good thing your friend does not follow the politics out there or the letter might have been even longer.   |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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stavrizatz
| Quote: |
| What’s frightening is that you are so close-minded that you believe that anyone with opposite views is blinkered. Tell me what made you jump to this assumptions. You don’t like to accept some truths, is that why? |
The frightening thing is that you are still arguing what your forefathers were fighting for 50 years ago which ended up dividing the island only factor which could deem you worse than them is that you have the benefit of hindsight they did not.
As for me I did state before that if you purely go according to majority rule ethics, totally disregarding a substantial minority of your population on such a major issue you cannot expect people not to revolt and fight back against what they believe will be their annihilation.
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About Thrace I was never so sure, and still I am not. I didn’t read anything on the subject and I formed an opinion based on what I was told (I accept that maybe that opinion was false). If I was narrow-minded like you, I wouldn’t be open to other possibilities.
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This only appeared after you were challenged and give the opportunity to reconsider your beliefs.
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I know that most of the Greek Cypriots
doesn't want to live with us and they don't want to share the government with us on the basis of %30-%70, which was like in Republic of Cyprus. What they want is to own the whole island and the government and accept us as a minority. What they want to do is applying this osmosis project and delete us from Cyprus in long term. On the
other hand occupying power Turkey is doing the same thing with a difference that they just want the north of the island ' |
Your friend seems to have a lot in common with many other Turkish Cypriots.
So what are trying to confirm by posting your friends letter? he seems to echoing a lot of what Turkish Cypriot feel in general. |
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De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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| Turkey's done a better job deleting Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus than any Greek did. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| DLS look at it from this perspective they are Turkish so in reality we are returning to where we came from, what we are really losing is our Cypriot identity and thus our bond with you. Whos to say what the Greek Cypriots would have done to us over the past 46 years when you Akrtias and enosis as examples. |
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De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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| Quote: |
| DLS look at it from this perspective they are Turkish so in reality we are returning to where we came from, what we are really losing is our Cypriot identity and thus our bond with you. Whos to say what the Greek Cypriots would have done to us over the past 46 years when you Akrtias and enosis as examples. |
End of the day, what you are proposing about Enosis or the Akritas plan is heresay but the fact is that the Turkish Cypriot identity under the Turkish administration in the north is diminishing. You compalin about Enosis so much but its the Turkish Cypriot community who got it and are now suffering from it.
If you dont mind losing your Cypriot identity then that is your choice VP. At least more people here know your real stance in the Cyprus problem. If you dont mind losing your Cypriot identity then why try so hard in taking part of Cyprus for yourself? If you dont mind losing the bond with Greek Cypriots, why dont you mind having a Turkish Cypriot state in Turkey???....after all, with no Cypriot identity you would just be a Turk would you not? |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| Quote: |
| This only appeared after you were challenged and give the opportunity to reconsider your beliefs. |
I am never absolut about my opinion, I allow people to challenge and prove me wrong.
I want to believe that my friend has much similarities with other Turkish Cypriots. When he wrote this to me, it was the first time I understood the prespective of a Turkish Cypriot. I understood that he doesn't trust either Turkey nor Greece. What am I trying to confirm; three things:
1. your doubts that I haven't spoken to any Turkish Cypriots.
2. The passion that it seems that you, and other Turkish Cypriots have for Turkey and the illegal Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.
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| So you don't want to share the government with us. You are looking us as a minority. But you should know that we are not happy with the Turkish invasion as well. They are ruling us and they never left us to decide our future |
3. With bold is the most important point that my friend addressed. |
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zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
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| If that letter is real my name is Costas. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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De_La_Soul
| Quote: |
End of the day, what you are proposing about Enosis or the Akritas plan is heresay but the fact is that the Turkish Cypriot identity under the Turkish administration in the north is diminishing. You compalin about Enosis so much but its the Turkish Cypriot community who got it and are now suffering from it.
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enosis and aktritas just hearsay?, you are joking.. don't insult every ones intelligence with such childish remarks. Both issues if executed would have been the final nails in our coffins in comparison to assimilation are totally different issues.
There is a big difference between going willingly than kicking and screaming, do you understand what I am referring to?
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| If you dont mind losing your Cypriot identity then that is your choice VP. At least more people here know your real stance in the Cyprus problem. If you dont mind losing your Cypriot identity then why try so hard in taking part of Cyprus for yourself? If you dont mind losing the bond with Greek Cypriots, why dont you mind having a Turkish Cypriot state in Turkey???....after all, with no Cypriot identity you would just be a Turk would you not? |
Because I and other Turkish Cypriots have a stake in this island. As for losing the Cypriot part of our identity surely that's my business and it didn't concern you in 1963-1974 why should it concern you today? |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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stavrizatz
| Quote: |
| I want to believe that my friend has much similarities with other Turkish Cypriots. When he wrote this to me, it was the first time I understood the prespective of a Turkish Cypriot. I understood that he doesn't trust either Turkey nor Greece. |
He also doesn't trust Greek Cypriots.
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1. your doubts that I haven't spoken to any Turkish Cypriots.
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I am taking you on your word many of our Greek Cypriot contributors would not do the same in reverse.
Is he the only Turkish Cypriot you have spoken to?
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| 2. The passion that it seems that you, and other Turkish Cypriots have for Turkey and the illegal Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus |
Have you worked out why?
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| 3. With bold is the most important point that my friend addressed. |
Now you disappoint me at this stage, you only highlight what you want to read, although an important issue there are many such issues riddled in the letter pity you have been unable to see them. Its is these that you should try to address as they concern you and the Greek Cypriots. |
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repulsewarrior
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2152
Location: a cypriot in canada
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I have told this story before... in Toronto, getting into a cab, the Cypriotflag hanging fromthe mirror, the cabbie asking where I'm from, realising he is Turkish Cypriot, our crying, him saying " we have lost our island, we have lost our island... something I can never forget, knowing that I am not alone.
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| Turkey's done a better job deleting Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus than any Greek did. |
This is true, and unfortunate. Mr. B. and other like us remember very well. Anything else is politics. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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Zan wrote:
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| If that letter is real my name is Costas. |
Actually it is not real, I've spent 10 hours on the computer and wrote it myself!!! |
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zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
Zan wrote:
| Quote: |
| If that letter is real my name is Costas. |
Actually it is not real, I've spent 10 hours on the computer and wrote it myself!!! |
If that is what you can produce in ten hours then maybe another ten hours was needed. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
| Hello Costas, next time |
About time  |
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