| Should we apologise for past demenours???? |
| Yes as it is the way forward. |
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68% |
[ 15 ] |
| No i don't think so. |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
| They got what they deserved and its better this way. |
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13% |
[ 3 ] |
| I don't care |
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9% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 22 |
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| Author |
Message |
De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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Stavrizatz...come back to me after you have spent a month or so trying to talk common sense to cult members Erolz, Viewpoint and Bananiot.
Erolz believes Greeks should only be granted freedom when the Turks or British are ready to do so.
VP justs twists everything said into a Greek Cypriot blame direction and is the epitamy of Turkish brainwashing.
Bananiot just hates everything Greek. |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus
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| De_La_Soul wrote: |
Stavrizatz...come back to me after you have spent a month or so trying to talk common sense to cult members Erolz, Viewpoint and Bananiot.
Erolz believes Greeks should only be granted freedom when the Turks or British are ready to do so.
VP justs twists everything said into a Greek Cypriot blame direction and is the epitamy of Turkish brainwashing.
Bananiot just hates everything Greek. |
Now that you have labelled everyone with your own personal opinions wether they are true or not is it not you that has been banned twice already for rude and agressive behaviour when you are losing a debate or find it hard to accept some truths or ideologies that goes against the grain of Greek Cypriot nationalism headed by your Benevolent terrorist leader Tpap and championed by your self. 
This thread is about acknowledgement of crimes committed against our own people wether they be Greek Cypriot, Turkish Cypriot or whatever and not a political debate that it has turned into.
I find myself asking have we as a people matured enough to be critical of ourselves and accept or at least acknowledge the pain of our own people that we were reason to be segregated and be shown and recognised by "the otherside" as the enemy???
Reading this thread i feel we have a long way to go and even though some members were open minded and honest enough to make an apology it has been lost in the war of words amonst certain members which is a big shame.
For me as a Turkish Cypriot i recognise that under my name many Greek Cypriot were kiled, murdered, raped and finally forcefully evicted from their homes and forced to live as refugees and that SHAMES me and that many Greek Cypriot women still mourn and search for information on their loved ones, even though they know they are probably not of this world anymore they just want to get their remains and bury them according to their Orthodox religion and have a place to come and mourn, put flowers, light inscence, sprinkle holy water and talk to them till the day they can lie alongside them for eternity, this also causes me great shame not just as a Turkish Cypriot but as a human being that this suffering has been stretched over three decades.
I today BEG all cypriots on this forum to show compassion to our fellow countrymen and leave politics aside and look for the humanity in one another that unites us and ask for forgiveness.
"I brother ask all my Greek Cypriot brother and sisters to forgive all the injustice that has been done and is still being done under my name and to find it in their hearts to unite with me and the likes of us to unite our island and heal all our people so we can blossom into the rightous human beings i believe we were destined to become had the past tradegies never occured"
On this note i leave all you forum members to now see if you can truely appreciate what you are apologising for and do it without expecting anything in return as i have done.
Peace to you all. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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Brother:
| Quote: |
| "I brother ask all my Greek Cypriot brother and sisters to forgive all the injustice that has been done and is still being done under my name and to find it in their hearts to unite with me and the likes of us to unite our island and heal all our people so we can blossom into the rightous human beings i believe we were destined to become had the past tradegies never occured" |
I unite with you Brother. It is healing the past, that is what this topic is all about. Healing the past is the first step (out of three) to the solution. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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DeLaSoul
| Quote: |
| Stavrizatz...come back to me after you have spent a month or so trying to talk common sense to cult members Erolz, Viewpoint and Bananiot. |
I feel like that sometimes that common sense is absent however arguments are healthy. I will see in a month or two...who knows I might come back to you.
Cheers |
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Leyla
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 612
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| Well said Brother...truly...you, and anyone else who also feels like this has my total and utmost respect.. |
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De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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| Quote: |
| Now that you have labelled everyone with your own personal opinions wether they are true or not is it not you that has been banned twice already for rude and agressive behaviour when you are losing a debate or find it hard to accept some truths or ideologies that goes against the grain of Greek Cypriot nationalism headed by your Benevolent terrorist leader Tpap and championed by your self. |
Still not the brightest spark eh??
| Quote: |
This thread is about acknowledgement of crimes committed against our own people wether they be Greek Cypriot, Turkish Cypriot or whatever and not a political debate that it has turned into.
I find myself asking have we as a people matured enough to be critical of ourselves and accept or at least acknowledge the pain of our own people that we were reason to be segregated and be shown and recognised by "the otherside" as the enemy???
Reading this thread i feel we have a long way to go and even though some members were open minded and honest enough to make an apology it has been lost in the war of words amonst certain members which is a big shame.
For me as a Turkish Cypriot i recognise that under my name many Greek Cypriot were kiled, murdered, raped and finally forcefully evicted from their homes and forced to live as refugees and that SHAMES me and that many Greek Cypriot women still mourn and search for information on their loved ones, even though they know they are probably not of this world anymore they just want to get their remains and bury them according to their Orthodox religion and have a place to come and mourn, put flowers, light inscence, sprinkle holy water and talk to them till the day they can lie alongside them for eternity, this also causes me great shame not just as a Turkish Cypriot but as a human being that this suffering has been stretched over three decades.
I today BEG all cypriots on this forum to show compassion to our fellow countrymen and leave politics aside and look for the humanity in one another that unites us and ask for forgiveness.
"I brother ask all my Greek Cypriot brother and sisters to forgive all the injustice that has been done and is still being done under my name and to find it in their hearts to unite with me and the likes of us to unite our island and heal all our people so we can blossom into the rightous human beings i believe we were destined to become had the past tradegies never occured"
On this note i leave all you forum members to now see if you can truely appreciate what you are apologising for and do it without expecting anything in return as i have done.
Peace to you all.
|
Obviously nobody wants to see people killed...but if a Turkish Cypriot, like many on this forum, is going to use excuses and play the blame game to prevent me or my people from exercising there human rights, then there is going to argument about history and whether the invasion and occupation is right or wrong.
Its simple...let Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots enjoy the same basic human rights (if you know what that means) then this conflict will eventually (maybe not comfertably) go away. Blame Greek Cypriots for a problem which has as much to do with Turkish Cypriots and hold our homes and heritage to ransom...and you will get no change. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| brother i agree with you, and join you....too bad soem people still after a humanitarian plee, still cant just say sorry and be done with. |
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De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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where does 'sorry' really get you?
How much say did you Dhavlos or Brother have in any of the murders that have taken place in the Cyprus problem?? What is the point of saying sorry when the people that DID actually make those decisions or actually took someones life are not sincerely sorry themselves???
How sincere is that apology if you have nothing directly to do with the crime that has been committed??
Sorry doesnt get our heritage and homes back right now while they are being held to ransom. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| De_La_Soul wrote: |
where does 'sorry' really get you?
How much say did you Dhavlos or Brother have in any of the murders that have taken place in the Cyprus problem?? What is the point of saying sorry when the people that DID actually make those decisions or actually took someones life are not sincerely sorry themselves???
How sincere is that apology if you have nothing directly to do with the crime that has been committed??
Sorry doesnt get our heritage and homes back right now while they are being held to ransom. |
sorry gives you peoples respect.
what involvement did i have persoally? none....my community on the other hand, which i am part of, did do things.
Even if they are not really sorry, then why should we all suffer, becuase no-one thinks they should give an inch in a solution, becasue the other side hasnt apologised?
It is not about being sorry as an individual, it is aout being sorry on behalf of your community.
Its about taking a piece of humble pie, in return for respect, and then a chance to find a real solution based on trust, rather than fear of the other side. |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus
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| De_La_Soul wrote: |
where does 'sorry' really get you?
How much say did you Dhavlos or Brother have in any of the murders that have taken place in the Cyprus problem?? What is the point of saying sorry when the people that DID actually make those decisions or actually took someones life are not sincerely sorry themselves???
How sincere is that apology if you have nothing directly to do with the crime that has been committed??
Sorry doesnt get our heritage and homes back right now while they are being held to ransom. |
As Dhavlos rightly put it may i also add that you have a lot of built up anger that really makes you unstable.
This has nothing to do with property, politics or anything else our so called leaders can dream up to ensure they hang onto power and keep us the cypriot people in each others bad books but a humane plea for us to respect ALL the suffering of ALL our people and to acknowledge ALL the wrongs that have been done in our names.
I ask you DLS do you not feel angry at the poor Turkish Cypriot that were killed, raped or subjecated to inhumane conditions (and whatever else) in your name??????
Well i feel for the Greek Cypriot and if my humble apology would even help one person then it has been worth while and i expect NOTHING in return just the well being of all cypriots one day as a united people. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| stavrizatz wrote: |
How can you accuse me that I blindly support Enosis. Do you know what self-determination is? If not read the link of Erolz.
Actually I do not blindly support Enosis but you blindly oppose it, maybe without examining the possitives and neggatives of it. And that is exactly what pisses me off, not that people have an extreme opinion of some kind, but people who blindly oppose and disrespect an opinion of someone else. |
This minority did not want to be part of Greece there are no positives for us in a Greek state, this is something we cannot ever accept and will do everything within our power to avoid.
So quoting text book examples of self determination only goes to prove that everything is not black and white and that if you try to disregard part of your population you will be faced with internal problems to the degree in this case of division. Your main priority should have been to build a united "Republic of Cyprus" but you had other plans on the day you signed the 1960 agreements. |
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zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
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| I am sorry. I have always been sorry. I will always be sorry. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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| Quote: |
| you had other plans on the day you signed the 1960 agreements. |
I beleive many Cypriots viewed independency as a step to Enosis, possibly...so what?
I will continue in "the best solution is...?" The content is more relevant to this discussion.
Respect to Brother |
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De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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| Quote: |
sorry gives you peoples respect.
what involvement did i have persoally? none....my community on the other hand, which i am part of, did do things.
|
Are you saying the majority of the Greek Cypriot community commited murders on Turkish Cypriots? Are you saying the majority of Turkish Cypriots commited murders of Greek Cypriots? At the end of the day Cyprus is a small place with lots of big mouths...the actions of a few are known by many. Nobody wants to see anyone suffer but if a meaningless 'sorry' typed on the internet makes you think that there is going to make a substantial difference then so be it.
Do you think the muslim community in the UK should say sorry for the 7/7 bombings? No because most of them had nothing to do with it. What they should do instead of saying sorry is make an effort of eradicating extremism in their community.
Same with Turkish Cypriot's, if they want to do something useful, then stop being such suckers for propaganda and nationalism spread by the powers that be and think with some common sense...put the Cyprus issue into the same perspective as the problem of other ex-colonial states which are supposedly 'cool' to empathise with. Think with their own minds and not that of the Turkish propaganda machine and we might get somewhere.
Most Greek Cypriots need to stop being so stuck up and think with more of an open mind and then we might somewhere further.
Just saying 'Oh sorry for the actions of my community' when you really havent thought about what your saying doesnt mean much and just makes you look like some hippy apologist.
| Quote: |
Even if they are not really sorry, then why should we all suffer, becuase no-one thinks they should give an inch in a solution, becasue the other side hasnt apologised? |
If Turkish Cypriots turn around and say 'Oh we are sorry for the actions of our community but you still cant have 1/3 or your home and heritage back'...are you going to be happy with that???[/quote]
| Quote: |
It is not about being sorry as an individual, it is aout being sorry on behalf of your community. |
First you say the ordinary Cypriot person was peaceful and just wanted and simple life then you say the whole community is guilty of a crime.
| Quote: |
Its about taking a piece of humble pie, in return for respect, and then a chance to find a real solution based on trust, rather than fear of the other side. |
Do you think an apology from a Greek Cypriot and a Turkish Cypriot both living in the UK is going to make a difference in Cyprus. Out there they all know that both communities get along (although ATCA marches arent helping things) but it wont make a difference because they know it doesnt mean much.
| Quote: |
| As Dhavlos rightly put it may i also add that you have a lot of built up anger that really makes you unstable. |
...and you can tell all this from some posts on the internet??
| Quote: |
| This has nothing to do with property, politics or anything else our so called leaders can dream up to ensure they hang onto power and keep us the cypriot people in each others bad books but a humane plea for us to respect ALL the suffering of ALL our people and to acknowledge ALL the wrongs that have been done in our names. |
How many Turkish Cypriots can you see appologising whilst there is so much lies and propaganda spread around in your community??? This is the one of the real problem you have to battle.
The same with Greek Cypriots, especially the ones in Cyprus, who have to learn that they do not live in Athens 90210 and have to come down to earth. This is the problem that has to be tackled today in Cyprus.
| Quote: |
I ask you DLS do you not feel angry at the poor Turkish Cypriot that were killed, raped or subjecated to inhumane conditions (and whatever else) in your name??????
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Of course I do and any decent human being would... but I did not ask for it to be done in MY name...nor did most Greek Cypriots, so why should they suffer??. They same was done to Greek Cypriots on a larger scale yet we are being told by most of the Turkish Cypriot community that they want us to lose a lot of our human rights in our own homeland. You can apologise but I bet you want the Turkish settlers to stay in our homes dont you.
| Quote: |
| Well i feel for the Greek Cypriot and if my humble apology would even help one person then it has been worth while and i expect NOTHING in return just the well being of all cypriots one day as a united people. |
Well if you mean that then do something worthwhile like speak up against Turkish propaganda which you yourself by into and I will tell Greek Cypriot to stop being so stuck up. |
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stavrizatz
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 952
Location: Australia / Lefkosia
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Brother, very well spoken but a small disagreement. I think DLS is right, we cannot say sorry for something that we haven't done. I know the point is to respect and not about saying sorry but a better word that we might use is achknowledge.
Eg. I acknowledge the past: "yes attrocities occured to both communities - respect to all the people who suffered and are still suffering from these attrocities" |
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