 |
| Author |
Message |
Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
|
|
| zan wrote: |
| Quote: |
DO YOU REMEMBER THE IPHESTOS FILES?
John Reddaway, who served for more than twenty years in Cyprus while it was under British rule, notes in his scholarly work on the British connection with the island that:
During the military operations in 1974 the Turks captured documents, which proved that the Greeks and Greek Cypriots had prepared military plans for the extermination of the Turkish Cypriots; those were published in English in 1977 and the originals documents in Greek are available for inspection. The plans were prepared with the knowledge and approval of the Makarios administration before the coup took place. |
You are just making your self look foolish now Kifeas. The more you say the more people can see through you. There are many on this board who quite rightly choose to ignore you. Unfortunately I don't seem to have that control. Talk to me brother. |
There were no such plans for the extermination of the Turkish Cypriots!
As far as I remember (and I admit I maybe wrong on this detail,) the "Iphestos" plan may have been a sub-plan of the "Aphrodite II" plan to defend Cyprus in case of a Turkish invasion, and provided for the neutralization and disarmament of Turkish Cypriot enclaves /strongholds across Cyprus, that could /would have potentially served/acted as on the ground internal bridgeheads for the Turkish invading army, or as bridgeheads to fight the national Guard from behind its defending lines.
If there was such a plan, 24 hours after the beginning of the Turkish invasion almost all the enclaves around Cyprus fell in the hands of the National Guard, and some 50,000 Turkish Cypriot civilians as well, many more Turkish Cypriots would have been killed after the invasion, than just a couple of hundred people.
Show me what evidence you have for the above claims, apart from the mentioning of a person's name! |
|
| Back to top |
|
Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
|
|
Kifeas
| Quote: |
| He (Makarios) did ignore the constitution on this issue, but out of necessity and in order to protect the overall national interest |
| Quote: |
| Yiorgadjis organized a Greek Cypriot militia to defend the Republic of Cyprus from the Turkish Cypriot prospective mutiny, out of necessity, simply because the Republic of Cyprus police and Army were insufficient |
How easily Greek Cypriots use this terminology to justify their misguided actions but when the roles are reversed it becomes an invasion and not out of necessity for protecting the Turkish Cypriots from the risk of being wiped out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| Kifeas wrote: |
| The reason Makarios refused to implement the separate municipality provision was because he had evidence that the Turkish Cypriot community wanted to make used of it in order to better organize itself into town enclaves, for the purpose of furthering on the ground the already institutionalized ethnic separation of the people of Cyprus, and implement it also in a territorial sense; mainly because this would have allowed the Turkish Cypriot leadership to secretly arm themselves and control and fanaticize their community members more effectively, as a first stage of their pursuit towards the ultimate goal of partition. He did ignore the constitution on this issue, but out of necessity and in order to protect the overall national interest which was to safeguard the country’s territorial integrity that was threatened by the advancing Turkish Cypriot leadership's mutiny plans against the Republic of Cyprus. “Denis” boat, coming from Turkey, was non-stop secretly downloading weapons and ammunition in Kokkina and Limnitis villages, since 1958. |
You may try and legitimise your leaderships illegalities any way you see fit but the fact remains that when they operated outside the frame work of the law and ignored the constitutional legal rulings of the state, they were acting illegally and in total contempt of the rule of law.
| Kifeas wrote: |
Yiorgadjis organized a Greek Cypriot militia to defend the Republic of Cyprus from the Turkish Cypriot prospective mutiny, out of necessity, simply because the Republic of Cyprus police and Army were insufficient in terms of numbers and inefficient in terms of political and constitutional mandate to defend the Republic of Cyprus and the Greek Cypriot community from the illegal TMT gangs that had created their own army within the territory of Cyprus. If this was wrong, then it is also wrong for the Republic of Turkey not to allow, and fight instead, the PKK, which operates within the territory of Turkey. The TMT at the time was no different than the Kurdish PKK today in Turkey. Both of them were separatist movements that were threatening the territorial integrity of their countries. |
You may try and legitimise your leaderships illegalities any way you see fit but the fact remains that when they operated outside the frame work of the law and created illegal armed militia outside of any legal framework, they were acting illegally and in total contempt of the rule of law.
| Kifeas wrote: |
It is an entirely different issue, if -once the mutiny begun in December 1963, some elements outside the mandates of this militia committed crimes and in some cases atrocities and another thing to claim that such crimes were also planed from above and /or that they those committing them were instructed to do so. Crimes were also committed by members of the Turkish Cypriot militia -the TMT, which was also operating under the command of the Turkish Cypriot leadership that up to the time were also a party in the Republic of Cyprus government and parliament (until they withdraw,) but this does not mean that such crimes were planned or instructed by the leadership itself. |
This militia had NO legal mandate. The importing of Greek mainland troops had no legal mandate. The all Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus leadership perpetrated many illegal acts from 60 - to 74 , this is not a matter of opinion it is a matter of fact. You may think illegalities by a Greek Cypriot leadership in contempt of the rule of law do not count or are not illegalities - but I do not.
| Kifeas wrote: |
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest or prove that the “Akritas plan” was something authorized or ordered by Makarios himself or his government cabinet as whole, and not instead just the personal initiative of its author(s.) |
When senior members of a leadership draw up such illegal plans it is not necessary to know exactly which members of that leadership knew what and supported the plan, to be able to accurate say that leadership was involved in planning and plotting illegalities imo. Say the leadership was doing it or senior elements within the leadership were doing it - the fact remains that senior members of the Greek Cypriot leadership planed and plotted such illegalities. In any case, though there is no hard evidence that Makarios was aware of the Akritas plan and it's contents I personally find it unlikely in the extreme that he did not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
|
|
| Quote: |
| There were no such plans for the extermination of the Turkish Cypriots! |
Is that it? Just by this statement my whole argument falls apart. 
| Quote: |
Those involved, or to be involved, in the extermination plans are detailed in the document with the File number 216/5/296, dated 7 March, 1974. It was issued by the National Guard's 3rd High Military Tactical Command in Nicosia and signed by its commander, Mikhael Georgitses. The plans stated clearly that the Greek Cypriot population was to be "organised" to assist the Greek Cypriot National Guard in "cleansing" designated villages of their Turkish inhabitants. Greek women and children were to be kept in their homes, but should they decide to flee any consequent fighting, the Greek Cypriot Ministries of Interior, Defence and Labour were made responsible for providing shelter, food and other necessities for them. The Ministry Health was to take care of their physical well being.
So the entire Greek Cypriot population was to be mobilised to take part in genocide, the murder of Turks, their fellow citizens for over 400 years, throughout the whole island. The whole plan was codenamed "IPHESTOS
(Volcano) 1974," and was described as an Internal Security (SEA) operation. It was not being done in the guise of warding off an attack by Turkey. In fact, Turkey was not mentioned. This was to be purely an internal affair, the business of no outside party, something between Cypriots alone. The Greek Cypriots would kill, the Turkish Cypriots would die. As simple as that.
Commander Haralambos Hios of the National Guard had sent his orders to the following units: The 256th and 276th Infantry Battalions, the 222nd, 261st, 306th, 316th, 321 st, 366th and 391 st Reserve Battalions, the 183rd Field Artillery Battalion, the 173rd and 190th Anti-tank Artillery Battalions, the 47th Communications Company, and other reserve forces. These in turn passed on their instructions to the units under their command, giving the names of the Turkish areas to be "cleansed." |
There are a few document numbers there for you to check up on. You do the homework
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
|
|
| Lewis Gerolemou wrote: |
| I really don't understand the logic of this argument. Both sides will use whatever it takes to gain advantage over the other be it size of armed forces, geography or relationship with the world's only super power in Turkey's case. Republic of Cyprus having recently acquired EU membership will use it to "negotiate" with Turkey. Can you really blame the Greek Cypriots for this, its the best "weapon" they have although they do run the risk of it blowing up in their faces. |
Lewis I agree with you. What I objected to was Kifeas coming here and berating the Turkish Cypriot community for holding Turkey's EU aspirations hostage to their demands on Cyprus, despite the realities you highlight above. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
|
|
| zan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There were no such plans for the extermination of the Turkish Cypriots! |
Is that it? Just by this statement my whole argument falls apart.
| Quote: |
Those involved, or to be involved, in the extermination plans are detailed in the document with the File number 216/5/296, dated 7 March, 1974. It was issued by the National Guard's 3rd High Military Tactical Command in Nicosia and signed by its commander, Mikhael Georgitses. The plans stated clearly that the Greek Cypriot population was to be "organised" to assist the Greek Cypriot National Guard in "cleansing" designated villages of their Turkish inhabitants. Greek women and children were to be kept in their homes, but should they decide to flee any consequent fighting, the Greek Cypriot Ministries of Interior, Defence and Labour were made responsible for providing shelter, food and other necessities for them. The Ministry Health was to take care of their physical well being.
So the entire Greek Cypriot population was to be mobilised to take part in genocide, the murder of Turks, their fellow citizens for over 400 years, throughout the whole island. The whole plan was codenamed "IPHESTOS
(Volcano) 1974," and was described as an Internal Security (SEA) operation. It was not being done in the guise of warding off an attack by Turkey. In fact, Turkey was not mentioned. This was to be purely an internal affair, the business of no outside party, something between Cypriots alone. The Greek Cypriots would kill, the Turkish Cypriots would die. As simple as that.
Commander Haralambos Hios of the National Guard had sent his orders to the following units: The 256th and 276th Infantry Battalions, the 222nd, 261st, 306th, 316th, 321 st, 366th and 391 st Reserve Battalions, the 183rd Field Artillery Battalion, the 173rd and 190th Anti-tank Artillery Battalions, the 47th Communications Company, and other reserve forces. These in turn passed on their instructions to the units under their command, giving the names of the Turkish areas to be "cleansed." |
There are a few document numbers there for you to check up on. You do the homework
|
Where are these files whose numbers you mention above? Did you have access to them? Where are they stored and what permission is needed for someone to have a look at them?
Anyhow, regardless of whether such a document exists or not, the termed "cleansing" is an arbitrary translation of the Greek term "ekkatharisis," which is a Greek language military term used for the English "neutralizing," or "mopping up!"
In English, as a military term, "neutralizing" or "mopping up" means overtaking with a fight or forcing to surrender and disarming the opponent and his positions or strongholds, and it doesn't mean exterminating POWs, hostages or civilians within such an area.
It may arbitrarily be translated as cleansing, because “katharizo” (clean) and “ekkatharisis" ("mopping up") have the same common verbal root, however, as words /terms have a different meaning. “Ekkatharisis,” which I am sure is the term used in the Greek text (if such text exists,) is a standard military term and has one specific meaning, which is the same as "neutralizing" or "mopping up" in English military terminology. |
|
| Back to top |
|
zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
|
|
| Quote: |
| "Had Turkey not intervened, I would not only have proclaimed Enosis but I would have annihilated the Turks in Cyprus as well." (Nicos Sampson - Greek EOKA Terrorist Interview in Paris, Eleftherotipia, February 26, 1981.) |
| Quote: |
| "On the Greek Cypriot side they have preferred the fighting to continue, leading to the extermination of the Turkish Community." (The Times, 4.1.1964) |
| Quote: |
| In the evening Greek Cypriot terrorists raided Turkish and mixed villages near Nicosia and the Turkish inhabitants of Ayios Vasilios were brutally dragged away. Many of them were killed in cold blood and put in a mass grave. This mass grave was discovered on 13 January by the British truce force and the bodies of 21 Turkish Cypriot civilians were removed. The two sons, 19 and 17 years old, and the granddaughter aged 10, of a 70 year old Turk were lined up outside the cottage wall. The gunmen machine-gunned them to death. In another house, a 13-year old boy had his hands tied behind his knees and was thrown on the floor. While the house was being ransacked, his captors kicked and abused him. Then a pistol was placed at the back of his head and he was shot. Altogether, 12 Turks were massacred that evening in Ayios Vasilios. Then the gunmen turned their attention to the Turkish houses. They looted and destroyed, and finally, exhausted, they set the houses on fire. In isolated farmhouses in the same region, nine more Turks were murdered. (The Genocide Files, Gibbons, Op. Cit, p.73) |
It seems that these people had the same trouble with translating a simple Greek word.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
|
|
The 'Genocide' Files If you really think Turkish Cypriot suffered genocide than you are truley demented.
...and why dont you spend more time searching for Turkish Cypriot crimes commited before the mass crimes they commited during the invasion??? |
|
| Back to top |
|
zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
|
|
| De_La_Soul wrote: |
The 'Genocide' Files If you really think Turkish Cypriot suffered genocide than you are truley demented.
...and why dont you spend more time searching for Turkish Cypriot crimes commited before the mass crimes they commited during the invasion??? |
The most of it was halted in 1974.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
|
|
| Quote: |
| The most of it was halted in 1974. |
Really? Because more Greek Cypriots died during the invasion then the amount of Turkish Cypriot did in the intercommunal fighting in the previous ten years. So with your little wink face, it seems like you are happy about this little fact? Does this also mean that Greek Cypriots suffered genocide or can Turkish Cypriots only suffer?? |
|
| Back to top |
|
zan
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 962
|
|
| De_La_Soul wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The most of it was halted in 1974. |
Really? Because more Greek Cypriots died during the invasion then the amount of Turkish Cypriot did in the intercommunal fighting in the previous ten years. So with your little wink face, it seems like you are happy about this little fact? Does this also mean that Greek Cypriots suffered genocide or can Turkish Cypriots only suffer?? |
I would have preferred that no one died. My wink sign was for the reson that the numbers would have been much higher had Turkey not intervened. |
|
| Back to top |
|
Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
|
|
| Kifeas wrote: |
The Republic of Cyprus did not ignore its constitution (proof is the fact that the same constitution remains unchanged since 1960,) it did not set up illegal bands but only a militia, out of necessity, in order to defend itself and its territorial integrity from the Turkish Cypriot mutiny in 1963/64, and it did not plot to secretly and illegally remove the Turkish Cypriot community’s constitutional rights. All the Republic of Cyprus did was to defend itself out of necessity from the Turkish Cypriot mutiny and the conspiracy they were plotting with Turkey to invade, ethnically cleanse and occupy a substantial part of its territory.
|
You're basically saying that everything is our fault and your side did illegal things "out of necessity" whatever the hell that means. If you weren't ashamed, you would claim that coup was organized by Turks as well.
Do you really believe that we'll get anywhere in this forum by putting all the blame on one side? If you really believe that our side is the only one to blame, then leave the forum. Do something else, go and drink with you ex EOKA-B buddies and make plans on how to drive the evil Turks out of your beloved country. |
|
| Back to top |
|
De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
|
|
| ...intervened, raped, murdered, ethnically cleansed, invaded and occupied you mean? |
|
| Back to top |
|
Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
|
|
| De La Soul wrote: |
...intervened, raped, murdered, ethnically cleansed, invaded and occupied you mean?
|
De La Soul, don't start your nonsense again. We know what happenned in Cyprus in 1960s and 1970s. Both sides did those things you mentioned so there's no point in bringing them up again and I'm not interested in a "you did more evil than us" discussion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
|
|
| Quote: |
| Really? Because more Greek Cypriots died during the invasion then the amount of Turkish Cypriot did in the intercommunal fighting in the previous ten years. So with your little wink face, it seems like you are happy about this little fact? Does this also mean that Greek Cypriots suffered genocide or can Turkish Cypriots only suffer?? |
You havent answered my question...does this also mean that Greek Cypriots suffered genocide? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
 
 
Link Partners
605057 Attacks blocked
|
Register 
Log in 
Album 
Home