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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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| Agreed, i do remember vaguely that conversation and micatcyp would be a very effective person to have on the team imo. |
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antonis
Villager
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 70
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| brother wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Claiming that he's waiting with the hand of peace is one thing, proving it is another. |
You want proof then call his bluff and take the hand, the Turkish Cypriot are sitting more comfortably after the referandum but tassos was called a back stabber by all EU members, the Turkish Cypriot DO want unification but that needs tassos to agree to negotiations and whatever he may have asked for (not in writing but verbally which is worth nothing hence the UN's SG demands for him to put it in writing) will be negotiated at the meetings, but Tassos has to agree first to meetings with Talat who is the democratically elected leader of the Turkish Cypriot people. |
I personally think Talat is bluffing, for the time being he is trying to see if there's something to gain out of the yes vote and out of "direct trade". I think in the past year, most Greek Cypriots that believed he was for reunification have started to think that perhaps he's having second thoughts.
As for the UN, they agreed that a verbal account of the points that need to be changed is enough. What they are complaining is that Tassos didn't prioritize things. It is widely known that Tassos tends to give long, unstructured legal position documents/comments (as he did during the negotiations). Now the list of changes was such that Talat refused to discuss it. Eventually they'll have to agree to do that, hopefully sometime soon.
As for the "Turkish Cypriot people" bit, I will just point out that this position is a contradiction to the rest of your post and I sincerely hope that it was a slip of the keyboard.  |
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antonis
Villager
Joined: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 70
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| Quote: |
| In every single point, you have brought the discussion to "If you have your fears ,we have ours too". |
Let me be clear. I believe that the Annan plan was unbalanced, partly because it didn't try to ease down the Greek Cypriot fears the least. And these fears have to do with security, the safe return of refugees to their houses and so on. This is something that many Turkish Cypriots don't appreciate. Political equality is as important to you as security is for Greek Cypriots.
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| The past is not over, one of the artitechts of nightmare plans for Turkish Cypriot is still your widely supported president. |
This is how democracy works, this was the favourite candidate for the Greek Cypriot community. You've had Denktash for 30 years, what should the Greek Cypriots think? Tassos has been there only for the past 2.5 years! Where was the good will from your side before then? You seem to be forgetting things.
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I personally don't trust safeguards by EU unless they are somehow supported by Turkey. I can also ask you another question:
if the past is over and we can trust Greek Cypriot, you may also trust Turkey to be as fair guardian in Cyprus. Why not? |
First of all if there's no trace of trust we're doomed. And I am personally not against the political equality issue, but not at the extent that the solution plan would become dysfunctional. I think many Greek Cypriots agree with this.
I think a good plan is one that would make sceptisists from both communities to say "this has a good chance of working", i.e., to get the acceptance of the majority from both communities. Since from the Greek Cypriot point of view there shouldn't be any guarantee powers, but rather some other form of guarantees to restore constitutional order in case there is need, I think this point needs to be reconsidered.
BTW Turkey never tried to restore constitutional order in 1974 - it occupied, forced people out of their houses, installed Turkish citizens on the island and divided it by force. Definitely not a good guardian for Cyprus. |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| antonis wrote: |
BTW Turkey never tried to restore constitutional order in 1974 - it occupied, forced people out of their houses, installed Turkish citizens on the island and divided it by force. Definitely not a good guardian for Cyprus.
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I understand why you don't consider Turkey a good guardian but at the same time, you have to realize that the same country that forced innocent people out of their homes was the only safeguard that worked for Turkish Cypriots in 1963-1974. It was Turkish jets in Kokkina in 1964 that saved Turkish Cypriots being massacred there. It was Turkish ultimatom in 1967 that stopped the Kofunye attack by Grivas and ultimately it was the Turkish intervention that stopped the coup and hence Enosis in 1974. I understand that the intervention could have been carried out better in 1974. I can agree that it wasn't necessary to force innocent people out of their homes to safeguard the security of Turkish Cypriots. It was definetely not necessary to bring settlers after 1974 and many Turkish Cypriots resent Turkey for that. But again, despite all the negativity, Turkey is all Turkish Cypriots had/have in order to be safeguarded in a hostile majority. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Mete wrote: |
| antonis wrote: |
BTW Turkey never tried to restore constitutional order in 1974 - it occupied, forced people out of their houses, installed Turkish citizens on the island and divided it by force. Definitely not a good guardian for Cyprus.
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I understand why you don't consider Turkey a good guardian but at the same time, you have to realize that the same country that forced innocent people out of their homes was the only safeguard that worked for Turkish Cypriots in 1963-1974. It was Turkish jets in Kokkina in 1964 that saved Turkish Cypriots being massacred there. It was Turkish ultimatom in 1967 that stopped the Kofunye attack by Grivas and ultimately it was the Turkish intervention that stopped the coup and hence Enosis in 1974. I understand that the intervention could have been carried out better in 1974. I can agree that it wasn't necessary to force innocent people out of their homes to safeguard the security of Turkish Cypriots. It was definetely not necessary to bring settlers after 1974 and many Turkish Cypriots resent Turkey for that. But again, despite all the negativity, Turkey is all Turkish Cypriots had/have in order to be safeguarded in a hostile majority. |
Mete, you would have been fairer in your arguments if you had mentioned all the parameters of those events and namely that the Greek Cypriot attack in Kokkina was not for the purpose of committing massacres against innocent Turkish Cypriots but in order to capture the coastal area and the little harbour through which the Turkish Cypriots and TMT continued to bring in weapons from Turkey. This particular spot was the source of all weapons that TMT imported in Cyprus and the attack was carried out in the summer of 1964, at a time when a cease fire was agreed, the UN forces took positions between the lines of the two communities and international initiatives were carried out for the bridging of the political differences of the two communities. Yet, the Turkish Cypriot leadership and TMT continued this illogical importation of weapons, I wonder why? The Turkish jets in Kokkina did not engage in attacks against the Greek Cypriot forces that went there to capture the harbour but instead they bombed the surrounding Greek Cypriot villages with Napalm bombs, burning many civilians.
In Kofinou on the other hand, it is well known that the Turkish Cypriots of those villages (Kofinou and Ayios Theodoros) occupied a hill overlooking the main Nicosia /Limassol road, set up a machinegun nest and from there they were firing against the cars that were using the main road. I do not excuse Grivas criminal action to also enter the village and especially to commit the atrocities he committed, but I would wonder what other option was left to the Greek Cypriot National Guard and police, other than attacking and neutralising this Turkish Cypriot post which was supplied with men and support from the nearby Turkish Cypriot village. I also wonder who ordered those Turkish Cypriots to commit such an act and what purpose they were trying to serve by doing such a thing? |
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