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turkcyp
Senior Villager
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 423
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| boulio wrote: |
| i know three languages and yes i grew up in the states and in comparison to Greek friends in Greece the have speak more foreign languages than most,i work with a Greek girl born in Istanbul and she speaks Greek,English,Turkish,french. for Christ sakes my grandfather spoke Greek and Turkish and new a little Italian and he didn't have a high school education.if the educational system in the north is faulty go blame them not the Republic of Cyprus. |
Men ignorance on some people's attitudes is astounding,
It is about what you need to know to be able to get into these exams.
Facts:
- A Greek Cypriot that knows only English other than mother tongue can take this exam.
- A Turkish Cypriot that knows only English other than mother tongue can not take this exam, but is required to know another language too.
The above situation is not the fault of Turkish Cypriot education system, which actually I believe is better than Greek Cypriot one. At least it does not produce nationalistic bigots. When given the equal opportunity we can see which education system is better. But let's first get the equal opportunity.
You can not put me a 100 yard dash with you where I start 100 yards behind in which I have to run 200 yards.
How is that for you? Plain enough for you to understand. |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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| turkcyp wrote: |
| boulio wrote: |
| i know three languages and yes i grew up in the states and in comparison to Greek friends in Greece the have speak more foreign languages than most,i work with a Greek girl born in Istanbul and she speaks Greek,English,Turkish,french. for Christ sakes my grandfather spoke Greek and Turkish and new a little Italian and he didn't have a high school education.if the educational system in the north is faulty go blame them not the Republic of Cyprus. |
Men ignorance on some people's attitudes is astounding,
It is about what you need to know to be able to get into these exams.
Facts:
- A Greek Cypriot that knows only English other than mother tongue can take this exam.
- A Turkish Cypriot that knows only English other than mother tongue can not take this exam, but is required to know another language too.
The above situation is not the fault of Turkish Cypriot education system, which actually I believe is better than Greek Cypriot one. At least it does not produce nationalistic bigots. When given the equal opportunity we can see which education system is better. But let's first get the equal opportunity.
You can not put me a 100 yard dash with you where I start 100 yards behind in which I have to run 200 yards.
How is that for you? Plain enough for you to understand. |
Turkcyp you might need to make it a little simpler. |
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turkcyp
Senior Villager
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 423
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| repulsewarrior wrote: |
I don't deny this, I did not know this.
But if the government that is the ruling authority of Turcophones knew this, and did nothing to better their own position, then why blame the Grecophone students, who comparitively, excel among other EU nations. |
What could the government of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus do in this case? It is Republic of Cyprus that declares to EU what languages are to be used as official EU language, and they did not declare Turkish.
And where did you see that I had blamed Greek Cypriots. They are simply trying to make a living as the ones in north. The blame is on Republic of Cyprus not on Greek Cypriot students. They simply had happily accepted what is given to them with less competition I might add. I would too if I were them. I would snot want Turkish Cypriots get into these exams as well if I were them. They simply create more competition. |
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Gardash
Senior Villager
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 274
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THE OFFICIAL FIRST LANGUAGE OF THE REPUBLIC IS ENGLISH.
What more do you expect? Greek Cypriot kids to unlearn Greek to even the playing field?
And turkcyp, please relax on the insults (re. Greek Cypriot education system produces bigots).
I'm going to stay out of this one while I try check what exactly HAS been declared by the Republic of Cyprus. |
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turkcyp
Senior Villager
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 423
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| Gardash wrote: |
THE OFFICIAL FIRST LANGUAGE OF THE REPUBLIC IS ENGLISH.
What more do you expect? Greek Cypriot kids to unlearn Greek to even the playing field?
And turkcyp, please relax on the insults (re. Greek Cypriot education system produces bigots).
I'm going to stay out of this one while I try check what exactly HAS been declared by the Republic of Cyprus. |
The attitude continues,
First of all you are wrong. English is not official language of Cyprus. Secondly even if it is, it does not help Turkish Cypriots in being any less disadvantaged then Greek Cypriots.
I did not tell Greek Cypriots to unlearn Greek. It is actually the knowledge of their mother tongue together with another EU language that enables them get into these exams, unlike Turkish Cypriots.
All I have asked for that Republic of Cyprus to declare to EU that both Greek and Turkish are Republic of Cyprus official language so that Turkish Cypriots can take these exams to alongside with Greek Cypriots.
How is this not fair to ask?
Sorry about the bigot comment. I know it was a far fetched generalization that I should not have done. It seems that it touched a raw nerve though.
BUT it is the facts we look at. Majority of youngster Greek Cypriots does not want to live mixed with Turkish Cypriots, where the trend is quite the opposite among Turkish Cypriots. It was just last year there was an survey done in Greek Cypriot public schools that put in public how religious and nationalistic the products of Greek Cypriot schools are while the Turkish Cypriot high school students go out on the street to demonstrate for unification, and Turkish Cypriot teachers union is the most leftist, and solution seeking union in north. The facts just speak for themselves. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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THe Republic of Cyprus has been clever on this one, as technically it has made it so greek and turksih are on a level playing field, ie towards what is 'officail' cyprus languages(neither of them)...but the reality is that most people on the island speak greek, which happens to be another official language.
Im not supporting it. to be honest, i would have prefered the Republic of Cyprus to declare English, Greek and Turkish as its official languages...
I can see how people argue that the Republic of Cyprus are not technically in the wrong since neither language were declaired, but in reality the Republic of Cyprus has made a bad mistake, because of the obviousness that only Greek Cypriots are going to be able to work in the EU (cos they dont have to know 2 extra languages). |
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Gardash
Senior Villager
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 274
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Arse. I was wrong.
We declared Greek with Turkish IF/WHEN we have a representative. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1739
Location: Canada
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| Gardash, can you be more specific. Does this mean that the three languages are considered by the EU as our Official Languages? |
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turkkan
Senior Villager
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 198
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| You are all wrong, the Republic of Cyprus would love to have turkish declared an offical language of the EU, the problem is that every 'EU' language, must have the constitution translated in that language. To do such a thing, you will need a whole company of lawyers working for several years, only turkey or germany can do such a thing. THe Republic of Cyprus would have done it only for propganda purposes, but such a feat is very hard. You were lucky, greece has it translated, and you just received their translation. Other countries such as malta did not translate it, and put down english as their official language as it was such a ardous and costly task to translate those documents. |
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De_La_Soul
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1131
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| Have you ever looked at Republic of Cyprus money? What languages are printed on Cyprus pound notes? |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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The whole thing is as clear as mud...
Can someone correct me if I am wrong>From what I gathered from this thread the Republic of Cyprus declared English only as the official language of Cyprus.
And because Greece is already in the EU,Greek is an official language anyway...so the Greek Cypriots are laughing,but the Turkish Cypriots need English and one other EU language to take those exams...
This reminds me of the time when Australia had a white Australia policy.
They had a famous spelling test they gave to some selected migrants (those they wanted out)...The spelling test could be in English orin any other European language of the Australian officials' choice.
There is a famous (or infamous) case with a Czech communist who jumped ship and wanted to stay in Australia.This guy was a true intellectual and linguist,he spoke some 7 or 8 European languages.
So they gave him the spelling test in ...Gaelic. 
Needless to say he failed and was deported.  |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| De_La_Soul wrote: |
| Have you ever looked at Republic of Cyprus money? What languages are printed on Cyprus pound notes? |
So what does this hace to do with the point being made ?
The point is that Turkish is NOT an offical langauge of the EU
http://europa.eu.int/comm/education/policies/lang/languages/index_en.html
The point is that for applying for positions within the EU insitutions you are required to have one other offical EU lanaguage in addition to ones mother toungue.
http://europa.eu.int/epso/faq/faq-home_en.cfm
| Quote: |
| to have a very good knowledge of at least one other official language of the EU (besides your mother tongue). |
http://www.eu-careers.com/workingfortheeu.htm
| Quote: |
| have a thorough knowledge of one official EU language and a satisfactory knowledge of another; This does not mean you have to be fluent in your second language. |
The point is that Turkish Cypriot as alledged 'equal' citizens of the EU are actually at a disadvantage relative to all other EU citizens in regard to seeking work within EU insitutions.
This is not changed because the Republic of Cyprus has Turkish on it's bank notes.
And what would happen in a unitary Cyprus if sections within Republic of Cyprus government decided that a similar requirment should become a requirment of Republic of Cyprus government jobs, also at the detriment of Turkish Cypriot potetinal candidates relative to Turkish Cypriot candidates. Are we to believe that no politicans in the Republic of Cyprus would ever consider such legisaltion sepcificaly to disadvantage Turkish Cypriot within the Republic of Cyprus or an ambivalent and unaffect Greek Cypriot community would stop such political shenanigans to 'protect' their Turkish Cypriot kinsmen? What historical evidence is there that a Greek Cypriot numerical majority without any requirment to protect its Turkish Cypriot kinsmen from such things would actualy do so anyway? In my view there is no such evidence at all - thus why I support some degree of consitutional / legal protrctions for the Turkish Cypriot community in a reunifed Cyprus for as long as it is deemed necessary. |
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turkcyp
Senior Villager
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 423
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
The whole thing is as clear as mud...
Can someone correct me if I am wrong>From what I gathered from this thread the Republic of Cyprus declared English only as the official language of Cyprus.
And because Greece is already in the EU,Greek is an official language anyway...so the Greek Cypriots are laughing,but the Turkish Cypriots need English and one other EU language to take those exams...
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Let me clear it one more time for you.
Every country that becomes a member of EU has right to designate their official languages as official language of EU. Hence EU has many official languages, like Polish, German, French, Greek, etc. etc.
Republic of Cyprus (when they became a member and they still have that right) could have declared Greek and Turkish as official languages of EU. But they choose to wither declare Greek only or do not declare any language at all because Greek was an official language of EU when they became a member anyway due to Greece membership long time ago.
And in EU in order to apply any EU positions you have to have a very good knowledge of at least two EU languages. Thinking that everyone knows their own official language of their own country, this means that everyone that applies for EU position has to know at least one other official EU language as a foreign language.
Not declaring any official language or declaring only Greek suits Republic of Cyprus because this means any Greek Cypriot that knows one other official EU language other than Greek can apply for EU position. But this is not the case for Turkish Cypriots as huge majority of Turkish Cypriots do not know Greek. So this means in fact that every Turkish Cypriot has to know at least two official EU languages as foreign language other their own mother tongue.
Is it now more clear how Republic of Cyprus is taking care of the interest of Turkish Cypriots? |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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Moose, where is your "when pigs fly" avatar?  |
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turkcyp
Senior Villager
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 423
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No improvement in this account too I guess.....
One year ago we have been talking about this, but nothing has changed.....
Let me summarize the situation:
In order to apply for an official job in EU bodies a citizen of member state is required to know at least two official EU langugages. This requirement was put into effect to make sure that officials of EU can converse in a foreign langugage other than their own. And in all cases other than Turkish Cypriots this means that a citizen of a member state has to know just one foreign langugae which is also and official langugae of EU. So if you are British you have to know another EU langugage other than English like sayGreek, French, German, Polish etc. because together with official EU official language English you fulfill the creiteria of knowing two EU langugagegs. Or if you are Greek Cypriot you have to know again just one foreign langugage which is officiaa langugae because together with the EU official language of Greek you again fulfill the creiteria so if you know lets say English, German, etc. etc. that is enough to apply for jobs in EU bodies.
Now lets come back to Turkish Cypriots. Turkish Cypriots are in very disadvanatges poistion here because while every citizen of a member state can speak at least one official langugage at birth (one of their own countires official langugae) Turkish Cypriots cant do that. Because Republic of CYprus did not register Turkish as one of its official languges at the EU level. As far as EU is concerned the only official langugae Cyprus has is Greek. So while any Greek Cypriot that knows just one other EU language other than their own, a Turkish Cypriot has to know at least two other EU langugage other than their own langugae, because their own langauge, even though it is official langugae of Cyprus, is not declared to EU as official language of Cyprus.
Lets se what will happen about this topic in the next one year. |
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