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| Is this treaty WHACKY ? |
| This is a bad idea, YES. |
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50% |
[ 2 ] |
| This is a good idea, NO. |
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50% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 4 |
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| Author |
Message |
Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Donald Keogh wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| depurple wrote: |
Put Cyprus in to NATO and you will have them working together:
MY idea is NO weapons or Military at all in Cyprus: |
Pardon? dp, can you explain to me exactly what you mean by the two sentences you wrote above please? It's really got me confused.  |
Simple put CYPTO into NAPRUS and you have them working together... |
If we did put CYPTO in to NAPTUS we would have CNYAPPTTOUS, it is impossible to pronounce never mind workable.  |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1739
Location: Canada
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| Gardash wrote: |
Bullika is right, Turkey is geostrategically more important than us
Military alliance- are you on drugs? Theres no threat to Cyprus other than Turkey
From their point of view- what the hell is Cyprus going to do to help them against any enemy they may have?
Really, the most useless alliance of all time from both perspectives!! |
I disagree. On the surface Turkey is far superior because it has larger numbers. However, Cyprus represents an economy which is more vital, in that it is more able, providing services and a rule of law which is far superior, having significant advantages over Turkey on this level, and an equal vote in international affairs, where Turkey is involved.
Cyprus has a maritime presence which is very important. Cyprus has banking facilities which Turkey can exploit, as others do presently. Turkey needs to be seen as a reliable partner. This is ultimately related to the issue that is a sore point to all other nations.Turkey's incontrovertible recognition that the island of Cyprus no longer is seen as a possession lost, but an equal, in Nationhood.
Tell me a better way for Turkey to guarantee that on this island, so close to its shore, nothing changes, or can change, without Turkey's consent. |
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Bullika
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 3025
Location: World
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| repulsewarrior wrote: |
| Gardash wrote: |
Bullika is right, Turkey is geostrategically more important than us
Military alliance- are you on drugs? Theres no threat to Cyprus other than Turkey
From their point of view- what the hell is Cyprus going to do to help them against any enemy they may have?
Really, the most useless alliance of all time from both perspectives!! |
I disagree. On the surface Turkey is far superior because it has larger numbers. However, Cyprus represents an economy which is more vital, in that it is more able, providing services and a rule of law which is far superior, having significant advantages over Turkey on this level, and an equal vote in international affairs, where Turkey is involved.
Cyprus has a maritime presence which is very important. Cyprus has banking facilities which Turkey can exploit, as others do presently. Turkey needs to be seen as a reliable partner. This is ultimately related to the issue that is a sore point to all other nations.Turkey's incontrovertible recognition that the island of Cyprus no longer is seen as a possession lost, but an equal, in Nationhood.
Tell me a better way for Turkey to guarantee that on this island, so close to its shore, nothing changes, or can change, without Turkey's consent. |
But we will see how 'equal' Cyprus' (Greek Cyprus') political weight is as the accession talks proceed.... This is an ongoing process so I dont want to put all my eggs into one basket.
So far though the Republic of Cyprus has not forced Turkey to do anything. Turkey still doesnt recognize the Republic of Cyprus and they have no direct commercial ties.
I predict the following scenarios
a) The EU under pressure from the Greek Cypriots supported indirectly from certain EU members, vetoes Turkish accession, this is an end to Turkish EU hopes and prospects for reunification in Cyprus. At the same time the rift between the West and Islamic states grows and the situation in Iraq worsens forcing Turkey to get involved. Recognition for Republic of Cyprus forget it! (too dramatic and probably not that likely if the left wins again in Austria and France)
b) The EU under pressure from the Greek Cypriots occasionally tries to satisfy the Republic of Cyprus, but has to satisfy Turkey too and so we have an ongoing process of uncertainty in the EUs position and conflicting decisions by the EU throughout the whole accession process. The result: Inconclusiveness, nothing changes in Cyprus. Turkey joins with North Cyprus outside the EU. (possible)
c) The EU ignores the Republic of Cyprus and the Republic of Cyprus afraid of being isolated in the EU and afraid of losing Greek support does NOT use her veto card. She merely protests at times and groans at other times. She holds out for reunification with UN talks that never come. Turkey is prevented from joining by a new glitch totally unrelated to Cyprus. Again nothing changes in Cyprus, the island is still divided. (even more possible) |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1739
Location: Canada
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Consider, Turkey needs from Cyprus, more than anything, its own military presence on the island for its own defence.
As a partner, in defense, it would be obliged to protect the interest of the Cypriot Maritime. It must hold the number of troops to a specified number, but neither can any number of troops, stationed on the island change, without its consent. Essentially, both Cyprus and Turkey benefit from better security, with the island's de-militarisation, and the PR that Turkey will gain worldwide will far outweigh the loss of having to recognise a state called the Republic of Cyprus, which is no longer divided, a Human Rights achievement held in high esteem, because the right of return is respected, in a manner which repopulates the entire island suitably, a vision to create even greater prosperity, with consideration toward those affected.
Alot of if's, but the impasse ends when there is recognition of what already is recognised by the rest of the world, the Republic of Cyprus, with its reformation. Turkey can keep the island divided but it cannot escape its responsibilities toward the Rule of Law, in or out of the EU. |
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repulsewarrior
Deputy
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1739
Location: Canada
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This idea is still interesting to me.
Your comments please. |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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| repulsewarrior wrote: |
| Gardash wrote: |
Bullika is right, Turkey is geostrategically more important than us
Military alliance- are you on drugs? Theres no threat to Cyprus other than Turkey
From their point of view- what the hell is Cyprus going to do to help them against any enemy they may have?
Really, the most useless alliance of all time from both perspectives!! |
I disagree. On the surface Turkey is far superior because it has larger numbers. However, Cyprus represents an economy which is more vital, in that it is more able, providing services and a rule of law which is far superior, having significant advantages over Turkey on this level, and an equal vote in international affairs, where Turkey is involved.
Cyprus has a maritime presence which is very important. Cyprus has banking facilities which Turkey can exploit, as others do presently. Turkey needs to be seen as a reliable partner. This is ultimately related to the issue that is a sore point to all other nations.Turkey's incontrovertible recognition that the island of Cyprus no longer is seen as a possession lost, but an equal, in Nationhood.
Tell me a better way for Turkey to guarantee that on this island, so close to its shore, nothing changes, or can change, without Turkey's consent. |
You say some nice things RW but the fact remains that Republic of Cyprus is just as a wild west adventure as the North is. It is a tiny country in the Med that has hijacked the EU. What rule of law are you referring to?
Banking services that launder Russian mafia money? Supplying PKK with cypriot passports and identification papers? Take away your EU membership and you're still a banana republic. |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1404
Location: Australia
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| repulsewarrior wrote: |
This idea is still interesting to me.
Your comments please. |
There is one little problem with your idea,dear RW.
Turkey does not recognise the Republic of Cyprus,she recognises the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus with whom she already has a defence treaty as mentioned earlier... |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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a cypriot-turkish military coopearation would only make sense if greece also participated. dont forget that one of the basic reasons that cyprus is so important for turkey (and especially the north part) is bc of the fear of being "surrounded by the greeks".
till 1997 the generals considered greece as the No1 enemy of their country. nowadays things changed ofcource , as the army has more serious problems to face and greece foreign policy towards turkey is less aggresive since 1999.
imo , yes a military alliance between greece -turkey -cyprus is possible. it will first take some steps such as:
greece and turkey should stop considering each other as a danger to their national integrity. actually it is rediculous to claim that today either greece or turkey have territorial claims on each other.
the cyppro is solved. assuming that happens it will not only make such a cooperation easier to realise but it would be an additional factor of stability for cyprus as well.
greece and turkey should find a way to solve their water and air disputes. the dispute "to whom the air belongs" is again directly connected to security, which means that the change of perceptions could make this dispute easier to solve. the water borders are more tricky , since besides security there might be also economic interests involved.
such an alliance would certainly benefit all of us. |
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Get Real!
Warnings : 3
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Nicosia
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Xenos 2Fan...
| Quote: |
You say some nice things RW but the fact remains that Republic of Cyprus is just as a wild west adventure as the North is. It is a tiny country in the Med that has hijacked the EU. What rule of law are you referring to?
Banking services that launder Russian mafia money? Supplying PKK with cypriot passports and identification papers? Take away your EU membership and you're still a banana republic. |
When was the last time you visited Cyprus 1942?
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Get Real!
Warnings : 3
Senior Villager
Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 325
Location: Nicosia
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repulsewarrior...
| Quote: |
| Consider, Turkey needs from Cyprus, more than anything, its own military presence on the island for its own defence. |
Turkey hardly ever does anything that's in her interests although she obviously thinks otherwise. She is a GREAT country run by SMALL minds that can only see as far as their nose; a military base on Cyprus is totally worthless but EU membership and good relations with ALL her neighbors is worth its weight in gold.
It all comes down to priorities... If and when Turkey decides to improve the lifestyle of her many neglected people she will also be smart enough to make the right moves but in the meantime all you need to do is read some of the statements made by their leaders as published by their media and you could be forgiven for thinking that you're watching a Genghis Khan movie!
Perhaps in 30 years time when the current Turkish politicians are long gone and todays educated youth has taken over we'll have a good neighbor… |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8920
Location: London/Cyprus
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| Get Real! wrote: |
repulsewarrior...
| Quote: |
| Consider, Turkey needs from Cyprus, more than anything, its own military presence on the island for its own defence. |
Turkey hardly ever does anything that's in her interests although she obviously thinks otherwise. She is a GREAT country run by SMALL minds that can only see as far as their nose; a military base on Cyprus is totally worthless but EU membership and good relations with ALL her neighbors is worth its weight in gold.
It all comes down to priorities... If and when Turkey decides to improve the lifestyle of her many neglected people she will also be smart enough to make the right moves but in the meantime all you need to do is read some of the statements made by their leaders as published by their media and you could be forgiven for thinking that you're watching a Genghis Khan movie!
Perhaps in 30 years time when the current Turkish politicians are long gone and todays educated youth has taken over we'll have a good neighbor… |
Thats what many cypriots thought in the sixties but hold and behold even after 30+ years Tpap turned up again as a leader, some things need longer.  |
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