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Donald Keogh
Villager
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Ireland
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| Eric Dayi wrote: |
Think of the EU-Turkey accession talks
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Eric your synopsis of Turkey's Accession talks in relation to Cyprus and the EU is interesting.
The abuse of EU law is a matter for you to elaborate on ( I am certainly not saying that abuse is absent) but it would be interesting to see what the heads of government have to say on these violations.
However, dragging the European Constitution, signed in 2004, ratified by 12 states with only a veto from two countries is hardly endemic of Europe's attitude to the Turkish state. Even the German Parliament voted in favour of ratification.
Similarly the Schengen Agreement, covering large areas of the North West Continent serves its citizens well and the comparable travel arrangements in other parts of Europe have little relevance to the East Mediterranean basin.
As for a crisis in the euro, the only crisis currently existing is Member States not knowing where the next euro payout is coming from.
Such issues detract attention from certain harsh realities that the Republic of Cyprus will have to face as Turkey's march towards Europe grows ever closer.
The Turkey of today is a very different one from when Accession talks began - unparallelled economic & political gains, demographic advantage, the ability to finance huge investment programmes and a growing confidence in its global destiny.
The small number objecting, put forward the lame argument of , too poor, not Christain, uncaring to their minority groups, wrong diet & dress sense - arguments that were used against other member states now incorporated into the Union.
Turkey's interests in Europe appear to be primarily economic as opposed to Europe's emotional attachment.
The British government's decision to offer transfer of sovereignity over almost half of the UK's sovereign base areas on Cyprus to the Islands two communities, as part of an overal settlement, says more about the EU's relation to the two constitutional partners of the Republic & Turkey.
We will no doubt have to endure further complaints about the growing number of Kebap shops popping up in our European capitals, but then I'm not complaining, Dublin's not renowned for it's repetoire of cuisine ! |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Did they, and what was the "solution"? |
the british rebate not to include new member states, and for a review of the CAP in 2008/9, plus the budget contributions being something like 1.045% of GDP.
| Quote: |
| Yes it would be political suicide and the begining of the end for the EU. |
well, as you say...lets wait and see 
| Quote: |
| It's not just the Turks who are suffering in Greece, all the foreigners suffer in Greece, including the asylum seekers. |
every country has its problems concerning minorities(france/magrebs, balkans/russians etc)...heck, even the turkish state does not get on well with all its minorites...or do you know otherwise? |
Turkey is not in the EU, Greece is and before anyone says anything I am not excusing Turkey's minority problems but an EU country should not act the way it does and go against all EU minority laws.
| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Quote: |
| One rule for the old and one for the new members and a speacial rule for Turkey, do you really think that this will work? |
this was decided and agreed by the member states...concerning Turkey..nothing has been agreed yet! so dont start spreading rumours...unless you can find me a reputable source that says otherwise. |
Even though Turkey said it would not accept anything less than Full membership, the "offer" made to Turkey was "Failing full membership, Turkey must be offered a minimised partnership" or something similar to that effect. I can't remember the exact wording but when the time comes the EU will decide if they will offer a "Full memebership" or "special membership"., it's not rumors.
| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Well, there you go, the EU is divided already and in 15 years time when the accession draws to a close it will get worse but before that let's see what happens at the end of this year. |
there si not final situation which europe is looking for...it is constantly evolving and will always be a mix between an economic bloc, and a political bloc. For an incrreasing number of countries(esp. former USSR) the idea of poltical union is not desired, and so to counter further deepening, enlargement is the answer for them. For those who want more politcal union, will always object, however it is the commission who will really be able to influence countries' leaders concerning the division between deepening/enlargement. It has always been an issue, and will always continue to be an issue...it is not something new. The EU has been in many crisise over the years, and Turkey is just another one... |
| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I am pretty certain tha Turkey will be rejected, probably long before the 15-20 years are up. Don't forget by the time Turkey joins there will be more than the present 25 EU members and all it takes is for only one of them to veto and that's it, over and done with. Cyprus maybe the first one in line to veto but there are also plenty of others who are waiting in the queue. Without thinking too hard I can name Cyprus, Greece, Austria, Germany and France. Turkey will never be accepted to join an all Christian club, maybe in a million years but not now. |
well, whatever, i disagree, since the EU will follow the views of the commission, who always support enlargement, and as consensus is a vital cog of the eu workings...a compromise will always be found...say Turkey to join, but have gradual restrictions taken away..so the sock of a big country is not to oo great...but hey...your not going to agree with me so i say we agree to disagree. |
The commision makes the approptiate recomendation and then it's up to each country to decide if they will let turkey enter or not but like you said, we agree to disagree.
Last edited by Eric Dayi on Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MicAtCyp
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 313
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| Dayi wrote: |
| How many Turks were there in Crete and how many are there now? |
As many Greeks as there are in Anatolia now. Population exchange agreement between Ataturk and Venizelos rings a bell to you?
****************************
| Ferforge quoting Ata wrote: |
| Greek Cypriots have changed many laws since 1964. |
Changed many laws? What is this guy talking about?
Anyway the fact is he does not dare say we changed the constitution.
As for his generalisation "many laws" as far as I can see he is only commenting on one and only law, that of providing social housing to refugees.
His opinion is that a country having almost half its population refugees cannot provide them social housing by using a tiny percentage of state land, and a tiny percentage of expropriated land. If he thinks his opinion is right he can go directly to an EU court.
| wrote: |
| It may be kind of hard to conceive for you but, whatever plan TR has for EU or else, Turkish Cypriots are not bothered that much. On the contrary, a government of Turkey, which will act against the will and wishes of Turkish Cypriots on such a serious matter has a life-span of a mosquito... this is a "national" matter beyond a governments power. |
Where did I say that Turkey will act against the will of the Turkish Cypriots??? Read my posts carefully. On the other hand though you cannot force Turkey to do whatever YOU like. For example you can not force Turkey to continue giving you one billion dollars a year for ever!
So far only one guy tried to tell Turkey what to do. In fact he even threatened he would uprise the people of Anatolia like Ataturk did. His name was Denktash. |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Donald Keogh wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
Think of the EU-Turkey accession talks
|
Eric your synopsis of Turkey's Accession talks in relation to Cyprus and the EU is interesting. |
Thanks, I make it up as I go along. 
| Quote: |
| The abuse of EU law is a matter for you to elaborate on ( I am certainly not saying that abuse is absent) but it would be interesting to see what the heads of government have to say on these violations. |
Sorry but if you know that abuse is not absent than should you not already know what the heads of government have to say on these violations?
| Quote: |
| However, dragging the European Constitution, signed in 2004, ratified by 12 states with only a veto from two countries is hardly endemic of Europe's attitude to the Turkish state. Even the German Parliament voted in favour of ratification. |
The constitution has to be ratified by all 25 members, if only one vetos then the constitution is dead, am I right in saying that? If yes, then it's already dead because two members have vetoed it. These two countries who vetoed the EU Constitution have made it clear that they vetoed because of Turkey, a Muslim country whom they don't want in the EU.
| Quote: |
| Similarly the Schengen Agreement, covering large areas of the North West Continent serves its citizens well and the comparable travel arrangements in other parts of Europe have little relevance to the East Mediterranean basin. |
Sorry, it's almost 2am here and I am getting tired, I am not quite sure what you mean here.
| Quote: |
| As for a crisis in the euro, the only crisis currently existing is Member States not knowing where the next euro payout is coming from. |
Do you mean that the EU has run out of money even before Turkey has joined?
| Quote: |
| Such issues detract attention from certain harsh realities that the Republic of Cyprus will have to face as Turkey's march towards Europe grows ever closer. |
Such as?
| Quote: |
| The Turkey of today is a very different one from when Accession talks began - unparallelled economic & political gains, demographic advantage, the ability to finance huge investment programmes and a growing confidence in its global destiny |
.
It will make no difference what so ever, those who don't want a Muslim country in an all Christian Club will not allow Turkey to join.
| Quote: |
| The small number objecting, put forward the lame argument of , too poor, not Christain, uncaring to their minority groups, wrong diet & dress sense - arguments that were used against other member states now incorporated into the Union. |
Yes, but none of them was/is a Muslim country.
| Quote: |
| Turkey's interests in Europe appear to be primarily economic as opposed to Europe's emotional attachment. |
The original "emational attachment" is I believe long dead, everyone's interests who joins the EU is the ecomic side of it.
| Quote: |
| The British government's decision to offer transfer of sovereignity over almost half of the UK's sovereign base areas on Cyprus to the Islands two communities, as part of an overal settlement, says more about the EU's relation to the two constitutional partners of the Republic & Turkey. |
Srroy but I don't get this either, what does the offer of the British Government has to do with the EU's relation of the two communities in Cyprus and what "relation" does the EU have with the Turkish Cypriots in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus? The Turkish Cypriots in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus was/is left out in the cold for their YES vote while the EU accepted the side that voted "OXI" even though they did not initally want to accept a divided country into the EU. The EU even rewarded the "OXI" voters as the "Legitimate Government" of the whole of Cyprus. The only "relation" that the EU has with the Turkish Cypriots is broken promises and nothing else.
| Quote: |
| We will no doubt have to endure further complaints about the growing number of Kebap shops popping up in our European capitals, but then I'm not complaining, Dublin's not renowned for it's repetoire of cuisine ! |
My Doctor ordered me off Kebabs but I still prefer it to Pizza or McDonalds. But those who don't wish to see Turkey in the EU need not worry, Turkey will not be allowed to join, of this I am as sure of as I am sure of being a Turkish Cypriot. |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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Eric you wasting your talent on this forum you should be on:
"Who's line is it?"
Mate I thought I was the King of the one liners:
You're certainly starting to catch up:
I hate to say this BUT some of the answers to gave Don were only contradicting what he was saying: Don is on your side:
He supports Turkey and Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus all the way:
You should be praising him:
The only think I agree with you Eric is that Turkey will never join the EU (Unless it changes its thinking dramatically in line with EU thinking) which I think is impossible:
BUT we might see a miracle OR TWO:
Turkey might join the EU and Eric might decide to be Cypriot: What do you think?
Maybe European Eric? What about that?
Hey Eric I've got a serious question for you to think about:
What happens if Turkey joins the EU and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is then left out?
The Republic of Cyprus and Turkey are one race European and you will be left out: Ever thought of that scenario?????Ever crossed your MIND?
Oh What a Beauty TOYOTA!!!! |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| depurple wrote: |
Eric you wasting your talent on this forum you should be on:
"Who's line is it?"
Mate I thought I was the King of the one liners:
You're certainly starting to catch up:
I hate to say this BUT some of the answers to gave Don were only contradicting what he was saying: Don is on your side:
He supports Turkey and Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus all the way:
You should be praising him:
The only think I agree with you Eric is that Turkey will never join the EU (Unless it changes its thinking dramatically in line with EU thinking) which I think is impossible:
BUT we might see a miracle OR TWO:
Turkey might join the EU and Eric might decide to be Cypriot: What do you think?
Maybe European Eric? What about that?
Hey Eric I've got a serious question for you to think about:
What happens if Turkey joins the EU and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is then left out?
The Republic of Cyprus and Turkey are one race European and you will be left out: Ever thought of that scenario?????Ever crossed your MIND?
Oh What a Beauty TOYOTA!!!! |
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....would someone please explain to dp what the words, "race", "ethnicity" and "nationality" means.........I give UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPPPPP!.
I think I need a  .....errrrmmm....I don't drink alcohol but what the hell....I'll have another and another and one more for the road.
 |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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Yes Eric,
Perhaps all the stuff you have been spewing out over the past few weeks has got to you as well! |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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So you are not volunteering to explain it to then?
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
Yes Eric,
Perhaps all the stuff you have been spewing out over the past few weeks has got to you as well! |
No mate, it's not getting to me but I am sure it's getting to those Greek Cypriot's who are trying to spread lies and rumors unchallanged.  |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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Eric thanks for not blaming me:
I am a Cypriot ONLY and I agree with you 100% I also blame the Greek Cypriots:
PS I blame the Turkish Cypriots as well:
So when we Cypriots all UNITE theses 2 foreign ethnic races can move back to there country of origin:
thanks Eric: |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| depurple wrote: |
Eric thanks for not blaming me:
I am a Cypriot ONLY and I agree with you 100% I also blame the Greek Cypriots:
PS I blame the Turkish Cypriots as well:
So when we Cypriots all UNITE theses 2 foreign ethnic races can move back to there country of origin:
thanks Eric: |
 HIC! |
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MicAtCyp
Warnings : 1
Senior Villager
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 313
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| Dayi wrote: |
| Turkey will never be accepted to join an all Christian club…. Snip |
The main reason is not relegion. The main reason is too much population. The same reason for which Russia will never join either, although it is more European than most European Coutries.
Secondly I disagree with you that Turkey will be kicked completely out.
She will end up with a special relationhip. |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| MicAtCyp wrote: |
| Dayi wrote: |
| Turkey will never be accepted to join an all Christian club…. Snip |
The main reason is not relegion. The main reason is too much population. The same reason for which Russia will never join either, although it is more European than most European Coutries.
Secondly I disagree with you that Turkey will be kicked completely out.
She will end up with a special relationhip. |
The main reason why the two countries rejected the EU Constituion was that they didn't want 70million Muslim Turks running around in the EU, so how can you say that the main reason is not religion.
Turkey has already said that it will not accept anything less than Full membership. Personally I think Turkey should turn it's back to the EU and look for a partnership with Russia, China, Pakistan and the OIC. The EU might be very good for Turkey at the beginning but not on the long run. |
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turkcyp
Senior Villager
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 423
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| Eric Dayi wrote: |
It doesn't matter how well off Turkey is, it will be rejected outright because it is a Muslim country and not how poor or well off it is. The EU constitution failed because of this reason and nothing else.
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Actually I see this as a Turkey's asset instead of liability.
EU will be trying so hard by then to prove the whole theory of "clash of civilizations" wrong......
Unlike many I think this whole radical Islam had increased the value of Turkey. After all it is the only country with running democracy for the last 80 plus years (Even with given its all shortcomings and past disruptions, it is the closest Islamic world got to the ideals of the west. And after EU accession process it will be even more democratic than it is now.)
When the time comes, EU will face a dilemma and a choice.
a) A Turkey in the EU with Islamic population who is trying to promote democracy in the region, who acts as a buffer between Middle east and Europe.
b) A Turkey outside EU, in the road to further radicalization who is promoting more conservative values among the EU's current Islamic population. It is not very hard to see that EU's current Islamic minorities are growing in population everyday, and are way more radical then many Turks because of their Arabic background (especially in Italy and France).
So Eu will have to decide where its border to radical Islam starts one day. They will have a choice as Turkey's southern borders, or Greece's Eastern borders. Turkey will presented as either as a buffer in the EU or as a enemy just outside borders of Greece. |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| turkcyp wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
It doesn't matter how well off Turkey is, it will be rejected outright because it is a Muslim country and not how poor or well off it is. The EU constitution failed because of this reason and nothing else.
|
Actually I see this as a Turkey's asset instead of liability.
EU will be trying so hard by then to prove the whole theory of "clash of civilizations" wrong......
Unlike many I think this whole radical Islam had increased the value of Turkey. After all it is the only country with running democracy for the last 80 plus years (Even with given its all shortcomings and past disruptions, it is the closest Islamic world got to the ideals of the west. And after EU accession process it will be even more democratic than it is now.)
When the time comes, EU will face a dilemma and a choice.
a) A Turkey in the EU with Islamic population who is trying to promote democracy in the region, who acts as a buffer between Middle east and Europe.
b) A Turkey outside EU, in the road to further radicalization who is promoting more conservative values among the EU's current Islamic population. It is not very hard to see that EU's current Islamic minorities are growing in population everyday, and are way more radical then many Turks because of their Arabic background (especially in Italy and France).
So Eu will have to decide where its border to radical Islam starts one day. They will have a choice as Turkey's southern borders, or Greece's Eastern borders. Turkey will presented as either as a buffer in the EU or as a enemy just outside borders of Greece. |
turkcyp, can I ask you where you live, I mean what country not your whole address. |
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turkcyp
Senior Villager
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 423
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| Eric Dayi wrote: |
turkcyp, can I ask you where you live, I mean what country not your whole address. |
I do not know what relations this has but I have homes both in Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and USA. Spent my year usually half and half depending on weather, family and business requirements.
Why? Does it matter where I live in what I say? |
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