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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Is it really? Don't you do that all the time? I mean predicting the future of the Turkish Cypriots? |
I base what I say on what is actually happening now Eric! |
And I base what I say on the past and more recent history and what has/is happaned/happening in Cyprus (now) between the Turkish and Greek Cypriots. |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| Quote: |
| and the EU falling apart ? me no think so. it just wont happen, since all the countries are so intertwinned economically and politically, and the supranational element of the EU (the commission/Council etc) will never let it disintegrate. The EU is built on compromise and consensus...so the break up of it will be very hard to do! |
Dhavlos, wait and see. |
you cant just say that!! give reasons why....i gave my reasons why not... |
Ok, then we will se if you are right or not, won't we? |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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Eric your are dreaming again: The EU will never break up but Turkey will one day: It will recognize the Kurds as a minority and it will leave Cyprus and you Can bet all the worlds gold on that: OR Turkey will NEVER be part of the EU:
Second:Listen (If you can)
What is happening in Cyprus now is what we have created my Turk living in Cyprus friend:
We created the Greek Cypriot and the Turkish Cypriot and we divided Cyprus in two and some (YOU) are happy with this situation:
BUT we can also create the Cypriot Only and when that happen YOU and others who Say we proud to be Turks and proud to be Greeks will be the isolated ones:
You don't get any proud anythings in the EU, The USA and in Australia OTHER tan there patriot love for there country which unfortunately some don't have: Some have this patriotic love for someone Else's country:
If you where to conduct a poll on this forum and ask anyone who you love the most Turkey OR Cyprus we all know it is Turkey and will always be:
As for me:It is simple: when I am living in Australia I love Australia and when I am living in Cyprus I love Cyprus:
BUT when I am living in Cyprus but love and praise Australia then maybe I am in the wrong country what do you think Eric?
As Cypriots we have ONE United country:
As T?C & G?C we have created 2 false ethnic worlds with a recipe for disaster:
But then you might not see it that way because I have heard people say I would rather live in a divided ruined Cyprus than live with Greeks & Turks:
What about living with Cypriots?
Eric it does it bother you?
Well it bothers me when people who love Greece and Turkey try to preach their patriotic bullshit to me and don't go and live there and leave us alone:
There are no problems with any G?T OR T?C going to live in the country they love so much BUT why don't they do it?
That is the question?????????????????
One more question why do the Greeks and Turks get offended when you say we are Cypriots Eric?
Because they are scared that we Cypriots YES Cypriots might wake up to the fact that we have our own identity and YES our own Country and then Greece and Turkey will have no where to play there games: |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| depurple wrote: |
Eric your are dreaming again: The EU will never break up but Turkey will one day: It will recognize the Kurds as a minority and it will leave Cyprus and you Can bet all the worlds gold on that: OR Turkey will NEVER be part of the EU:
Second:Listen (If you can)
What is happening in Cyprus now is what we have created my Turk living in Cyprus friend:
We created the Greek Cypriot and the Turkish Cypriot and we divided Cyprus in two and some (YOU) are happy with this situation:
BUT we can also create the Cypriot Only and when that happen YOU and others who Say we proud to be Turks and proud to be Greeks will be the isolated ones:
You don't get any proud anythings in the EU, The USA and in Australia OTHER tan there patriot love for there country which unfortunately some don't have: Some have this patriotic love for someone Else's country:
If you where to conduct a poll on this forum and ask anyone who you love the most Turkey OR Cyprus we all know it is Turkey and will always be:
As for me:It is simple: when I am living in Australia I love Australia and when I am living in Cyprus I love Cyprus:
BUT when I am living in Cyprus but love and praise Australia then maybe I am in the wrong country what do you think Eric?
As Cypriots we have ONE United country:
As T?C & G?C we have created 2 false ethnic worlds with a recipe for disaster:
But then you might not see it that way because I have heard people say I would rather live in a divided ruined Cyprus than live with Greeks & Turks:
What about living with Cypriots?
Eric it does it bother you?
Well it bothers me when people who love Greece and Turkey try to preach their patriotic bullshit to me and don't go and live there and leave us alone:
There are no problems with any G?T OR T?C going to live in the country they love so much BUT why don't they do it?
That is the question?????????????????
One more question why do the Greeks and Turks get offended when you say we are Cypriots Eric?
Because they are scared that we Cypriots YES Cypriots might wake up to the fact that we have our own identity and YES our own Country and then Greece and Turkey will have no where to play there games: |
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Donald Keogh
Villager
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 73
Location: Ireland
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[quote="-mikkie2-"]
| Quote: |
The Turkish Cypriot's actually hold the key to the solution to the Cyprus Problem. Unfortunately they key at the moment is being held tightly by Turkey. |
Mikkie forgive my cynicism but there appears to be a dichotomy in thought and application - On the one hand, Turkish Cypriots hold the key to the solution but on the other hand Turkey holds the key.
You say...
Blind faith in Turkey will lead to disaster....
The Turkish Cypriot community will have themselves to blame....
Turkish Cypriot's become a meaningless minority amongst the Turks...
Are these judgements or predictions I wonder...
Given that there is only one key to every lock one is left wondering exactly who is going to open the door..
Or are you looking into your crystal ball at the 'Fair & Viable' solution...
After all you said it 'Predicting the future is a dangerous game'
(ps a question on a more serious note & keeping with the forum topic to hand - what's going to happen to the British bases in the forthcoming years? ) |
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brother
Warnings : 3
Site Admin
Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
Location: London/Cyprus
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| Quote: |
| (ps a question on a more serious note & keeping with the forum topic to hand - what's going to happen to the British bases in the forthcoming years? ) |
They will stay exactly where they are due to the ongoing crisi in the middle east and we the cypriots will accept it like we have always imo. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| Quote: |
| and the EU falling apart ? me no think so. it just wont happen, since all the countries are so intertwinned economically and politically, and the supranational element of the EU (the commission/Council etc) will never let it disintegrate. The EU is built on compromise and consensus...so the break up of it will be very hard to do! |
Dhavlos, wait and see. |
you cant just say that!! give reasons why....i gave my reasons why not... |
Ok, then we will se if you are right or not, won't we? |
no eric, that is not helpfull at all...if you are going to post, at least give your reasons why...if i said 'cyprus will reunify next year' without reasons..who is going to beleive what i say?
I imagine you are an educated ma...so dont be so naive when posting a reply...
WHAT ARE YOUR REASONS FOR SAYING THE EU WILL BREAK UP? |
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depurple
Warnings : 1
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 2880
Location: Australia
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Dhavlos IF Turkey joins the EU (What a joke) then it might break up because there will be in fighting: Those who did not want Turkey:
Brother as for the bases: they will given to NATO and the EU rapid reaction force: I just hope they give back Episkopi and Dekelia and just Keep Akrotiri:
Eric it is Turkey that will be broken up slowly NOT the EU:
Grab your popcorn and enjoy the show I will: |
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Ferforge
Warnings : 2
Senior Villager
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Gazi Baf (originally) Girne (after all)
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| MicAtCyp wrote: |
Ferforge,
Where was Denktash when we were almost begging him to let a delegation of Turkish Cypriots take part at the negotiations with the EU?
Second:Not a single clause of the 1960 constitution has ever changed. What actually happened is a lot of laws-which presumably are constitutional. 20,000 pages of laws... All these laws were examined by your lawyers during the Anan plan. 19,999 pages were already accepted by your own lawyers!! |
FYI: http://www.abhaber.com/haber_sayfasi.asp?id=10419
Law making tricks of Greek Cypriots…
Prof. Ata ATUN
Greek side began changing the laws after 21 December 1963 on which they have overtaken the government by use of force and after16 March 1964 when they found the justification fort his by UN Resolutions.
Regardless of compliance to the constitutional provisions and 1960 founding agreements, Greek Cypriots have changed many laws since 1964.
Have you ever heard that “vacant (treasury) land” being titled to individuals before? This is impossible according to 1960 constitution.
The constitution, which legally can be changed with the condition of an approval by 16 Turkish Represantatives, i.e. Turkish Members of Parliament and should be voted in the same day but in separate ballot posts, and could be affect only when “yes” votes on both polls would be higher, have been changed within this time numerous times on any matter they wish.
For me, despite the UN Resolution of 15 December 1964, these changes are not legal. In one way or another, Greeks changes on laws and the constitution without the consent of the Turkish community should be brought before Hague and ECHR, and Grek Cypriot side should be held responsible for these.
The latest news, is the opening of the “vacant properties”(the land of treasury thas is not constructable legally) and distributed like “golifa”, being titled to greek cypriot individuals,
Yesterday, Greek Cypriot Interior Minister Andread Hristou declared that, Grek Cypriot Administration’s decision of distributing titles, is a very important decision towards the social life and settlements.
The mentioned distribution of title deeds concerns 3 different groups. Greek Cypriots now residing in government housings, the ones given Money to build their houses and the ones residing in Turkish Cypriots properties.
The “exploiters” are not only in North. There are exploiters in South also but because they are greeks they are “legal”, ours are “exploiters in invaded lands” because they reside in North. Greek Cypriots define us like this. Later if we will mention this topic in Ledra Palas meeting I expect the same fury happening as it did before.
According to this new regulation, especially people living on Turkish houses or ones who build houses on Turkish lands will be given “vacant lands”.
The Turkish properties who are confiscated are as follows:
1. The Turkish Cypriot properties who are parcellized (made ready for construction) 6041 properties
2. Areas which are not leaglly confiscated but there are people residing in. 5431 properties
3. Areas confiscated by tricks, legally. 610 properties.
Turkish Cypriot properties on which “government houses” (social houses) are built:
1. Turkish Cypriot Property on which houses are built. 3185 properties
2. Empty Turkish Cypriot properties which are not confiscated and ready for construction, 3125 properties
3. Turkish Cypriot properties which are said to be confiscated for public use and houses built on them 60 properties
Additionally, the urban properties left by Turkish Cyriots and now in use of Grek cypriots are distributed to districs as Lefkosa 349, Limasol 2170, Larnaca 1460 and Baf 977. These numbers donot include the properties in 103 Turkish villages which are emptied by Greek Cypriots use of force in 1963.
As discussed, Greek Cypriots both confiscated the constitution and the Turkish properties in 1963 and continued to do so until today and they say these are “legal”. I say this is piracy.
ABHaber 06.03.2006 Lefkoşa |
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Ferforge
Warnings : 2
Senior Villager
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Gazi Baf (originally) Girne (after all)
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| MicAtCyp wrote: |
What 32 years? I give it a maximum life 10-15 years. Within that period the Turkish Cypriots will negotiate their return to Republic of Cyprus. |
??????
before the hysterical chauvin and racist mindset in south changes (for which I estimate a couple of generations to pass) there will not be such thing...
It may be kind of hard to conceive for you but, whatever plan TR has for EU or else, Turkish Cypriots are not bothered that much. On the contrary, a government of Turkey, which will act against the will and wishes of Turkish Cypriots on such a serious matter has a life-span of a mosquito... this is a "national" matter beyond a governments power.
So what you will see, TR can even change her mind for EU path, but cannot give-away a tiny bit of Turkish Cypriot interest or try to force KKTC government for that.
Hope one day you will understand, your babadopoulos miscalculation in this will make you the joke of global politics and the cry baby of europe. |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| Quote: |
| and the EU falling apart ? me no think so. it just wont happen, since all the countries are so intertwinned economically and politically, and the supranational element of the EU (the commission/Council etc) will never let it disintegrate. The EU is built on compromise and consensus...so the break up of it will be very hard to do! |
Dhavlos, wait and see. |
you cant just say that!! give reasons why....i gave my reasons why not... |
Ok, then we will se if you are right or not, won't we? |
no eric, that is not helpfull at all...if you are going to post, at least give your reasons why...if i said 'cyprus will reunify next year' without reasons..who is going to beleive what i say?
I imagine you are an educated ma...so dont be so naive when posting a reply...
WHAT ARE YOUR REASONS FOR SAYING THE EU WILL BREAK UP? |
I am not being naive what so ever Dhavlos, open your eyes and have a look at the picture. Think of the EU-Turkey accession talks and what it has already done to create such an atmosphere within the EU and why the EU countries can't even agree on an EU Constitution and why it was shelved.
Think of the monies that each country pays into the EU funds and the arguments that that brought up.
Think of the Euro and what some countries think of it and why they are thinking of going back to their own currency.
Think of countries who in theory have adopted the EU laws but in reality do not practice them or even give a damn about them.
The Shenegan Idea was that all Europeans can travel and live anywhere in Europe, does that apply to the new countries that joined? Will it apply to the countries that will join the future? Is the present EU the same as it was when it first started?
Oh yes, I know, all small glitches and all will be sorted out when Turkey is finally refused entry or pulls out it self.
But will the EU not have more problems then? Like loosing face and importance in the eyes of the Muslim world and not only. Will it not be comfirmed as a Christian club only and prove that they do not want any Muslim country within the EU?
Apart from other "little" problems that the EU has, Turkey is the biggest and most dangerous problem that can either make the EU or brake it, but you can bet your last dollar that Turkey will be refused entry for some reason or other and will be blamed for the brake up of the EU itself.
I wonder if the US is going to start another banana war when Turkey is refused? |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| thank you eric. i'll repy in a bit |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| I am not being naive what so ever Dhavlos, open your eyes and have a look at the picture. Think of the EU-Turkey accession talks and what it has already done to create such an atmosphere within the EU and why the EU countries can't even agree on an EU Constitution and why it was shelved. |
fair enough, however, it is highly unlikely that Turkey will be rejected, since it has already start negotiations...no country has ever 'failed' negotiations(Norway left negotiations on their own accord) by the time Turkey will be at the point of joining, the economy woulld be much higher(GDP) and so there would not be such a fear of 'migrants'...the 2004 enlargement and the 1986(Sp/Port) enlargemtn both had fears of 'migrants' but their fears were largely wrong. The Eu is absorbing two largely poor countries at teh moment(Bul/Rom) and i think i am right in saying that Turkey will be much better economically when they join then Bul/Rom are now.
concerning the Constitution...it was the people that did not like it..it was not the governments who could not deicde. All the countries of the EU had agreed to it, but they could not ratify it when put to referndum.
| Quote: |
| Think of the monies that each country pays into the EU funds and the arguments that that brought up. |
but, like the EU always does...it found a compromise and thus a solution to their problem.
| Quote: |
| Think of the Euro and what some countries think of it and why they are thinking of going back to their own currency. |
this would be political suicide in EU terms...realistically no country, unless in the grip of some kind of severe reccession will qit the EUro.
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| Think of countries who in theory have adopted the EU laws but in reality do not practice them or even give a damn about them. |
like who? i assume u mean greece visavis turks...and that i can understand your point.howeve, if turkey joins the EU, then issues such as this will probably dissappear, since turkey will make it an issue...
| Quote: |
| The Shenegan Idea was that all Europeans can travel and live anywhere in Europe, does that apply to the new countries that joined? Will it apply to the countries that will join the future? Is the present EU the same as it was when it first started? |
If they signed the Schnegen Protocol...then they should be able to yes...what you are geting at here is the movement of labour...which hasnt opened up...but that is only teporary..so that the economies of the new member states can catch up wth the old, and not flood their markets, with cheap labour, and thus crash teh economies.
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Oh yes, I know, all small glitches and all will be sorted out when Turkey is finally refused entry or pulls out it self.
But will the EU not have more problems then? Like loosing face and importance in the eyes of the Muslim world and not only. Will it not be comfirmed as a Christian club only and prove that they do not want any Muslim country within the EU? |
yep...that is why countries such as britain are trying to stop this skepticism over turkey. Anyway...countries such as the Scandinavian ones, who want a more 'economic' Eu will support enlargement so that political integratuion will not take place...however, countries that want poltical integration will try to reject turkey. Somehow ... i think the international politcal consequences of Turkey not entering are more or less forcing the EU to accept Turkish entry. |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| I am not being naive what so ever Dhavlos, open your eyes and have a look at the picture. Think of the EU-Turkey accession talks and what it has already done to create such an atmosphere within the EU and why the EU countries can't even agree on an EU Constitution and why it was shelved. |
fair enough, however, it is highly unlikely that Turkey will be rejected, since it has already start negotiations...no country has ever 'failed' negotiations(Norway left negotiations on their own accord) by the time Turkey will be at the point of joining, the economy woulld be much higher(GDP) and so there would not be such a fear of 'migrants'...the 2004 enlargement and the 1986(Sp/Port) enlargemtn both had fears of 'migrants' but their fears were largely wrong. The Eu is absorbing two largely poor countries at teh moment(Bul/Rom) and i think i am right in saying that Turkey will be much better economically when they join then Bul/Rom are now. |
It doesn't matter how well off Turkey is, it will be rejected outright because it is a Muslim country and not how poor or well off it is. The EU constitution failed because of this reason and nothing else.
| Quote: |
| concerning the Constitution...it was the people that did not like it..it was not the governments who could not deicde. All the countries of the EU had agreed to it, but they could not ratify it when put to referndum. |
Not entirely true. SOme decided to put it to a referandum because they knew their people would vote against it as was the gorvernment of those countires were/asre against Turkey entering the EU.
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| Think of the monies that each country pays into the EU funds and the arguments that that brought up. |
but, like the EU always does...it found a compromise and thus a solution to their problem.[/quote]
Did they, and what was the "solution"?
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| Think of the Euro and what some countries think of it and why they are thinking of going back to their own currency. |
this would be political suicide in EU terms...realistically no country, unless in the grip of some kind of severe reccession will qit the EUro.[/quote]
Yes it would be political suicide and the begining of the end for the EU.
| Quote: |
| Think of countries who in theory have adopted the EU laws but in reality do not practice them or even give a damn about them. |
like who? i assume u mean greece visavis turks...and that i can understand your point.howeve, if turkey joins the EU, then issues such as this will probably dissappear, since turkey will make it an issue...[/quote]
It's not just the Turks who are suffering in Greece, all the foreigners suffer in Greece, including the asylum seekers.
| Quote: |
| The Shenegan Idea was that all Europeans can travel and live anywhere in Europe, does that apply to the new countries that joined? Will it apply to the countries that will join the future? Is the present EU the same as it was when it first started? |
If they signed the Schnegen Protocol...then they should be able to yes...what you are geting at here is the movement of labour...which hasnt opened up...but that is only teporary..so that the economies of the new member states can catch up wth the old, and not flood their markets, with cheap labour, and thus crash teh economies.[/quote]
One rule for the old and one for the new members and a speacial rule for Turkey, do you really think that this will work?
| Quote: |
Oh yes, I know, all small glitches and all will be sorted out when Turkey is finally refused entry or pulls out it self.
But will the EU not have more problems then? Like loosing face and importance in the eyes of the Muslim world and not only. Will it not be comfirmed as a Christian club only and prove that they do not want any Muslim country within the EU? |
yep...that is why countries such as britain are trying to stop this skepticism over turkey. [/quote]
The UK wants Turkey in because the UK needs Turkey as an ally against the German/French "coalition" and not because Turkey is a Muslim country and with it's accession will make the EU look better. The UK looks after it's own interests and does not give a damn what the Mulsim world thinks of the EU or not. A coalition of the UK and Turkey (100million population) will outnumber the French and the Germans.
| Quote: |
| Anyway...countries such as the Scandinavian ones, who want a more 'economic' Eu will support enlargement so that political integratuion will not take place...however, countries that want poltical integration will try to reject turkey. Somehow ... i think the international politcal consequences of Turkey not entering are more or less forcing the EU to accept Turkish entry. |
Well, there you go, the EU is divided already and in 15 years time when the accession draws to a close it will get worse but before that let's see what happens at the end of this year.
I am pretty certain tha Turkey will be rejected, probably long before the 15-20 years are up. Don't forget by the time Turkey joins there will be more than the present 25 EU members and all it takes is for only one of them to veto and that's it, over and done with. Cyprus maybe the first one in line to veto but there are also plenty of others who are waiting in the queue. Without thinking too hard I can name Cyprus, Greece, Austria, Germany and France. Turkey will never be accepted to join an all Christian club, maybe in a million years but not now. |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| Quote: |
| Did they, and what was the "solution"? |
the british rebate not to include new member states, and for a review of the CAP in 2008/9, plus the budget contributions being something like 1.045% of GDP.
| Quote: |
| Yes it would be political suicide and the begining of the end for the EU. |
well, as you say...lets wait and see
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| It's not just the Turks who are suffering in Greece, all the foreigners suffer in Greece, including the asylum seekers. |
every country has its problems concerning minorities(france/magrebs, balkans/russians etc)...heck, even the turkish state does not get on well with all its minorites...or do you know otherwise?
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| One rule for the old and one for the new members and a speacial rule for Turkey, do you really think that this will work? |
this was decided and agreed by the member states...concerning Turkey..nothing has been agreed yet! so dont start spreading rumours...unless you can find me a reputable source that says otherwise.
| Quote: |
| Well, there you go, the EU is divided already and in 15 years time when the accession draws to a close it will get worse but before that let's see what happens at the end of this year. |
there si not final situation which europe is looking for...it is constantly evolving and will always be a mix between an economic bloc, and a political bloc. For an incrreasing number of countries(esp. former USSR) the idea of poltical union is not desired, and so to counter further deepening, enlargement is the answer for them. For those who want more politcal union, will always object, however it is the commission who will really be able to influence countries' leaders concerning the division between deepening/enlargement. It has always been an issue, and will always continue to be an issue...it is not something new. The EU has been in many crisise over the years, and Turkey is just another one...
| Quote: |
| I am pretty certain tha Turkey will be rejected, probably long before the 15-20 years are up. Don't forget by the time Turkey joins there will be more than the present 25 EU members and all it takes is for only one of them to veto and that's it, over and done with. Cyprus maybe the first one in line to veto but there are also plenty of others who are waiting in the queue. Without thinking too hard I can name Cyprus, Greece, Austria, Germany and France. Turkey will never be accepted to join an all Christian club, maybe in a million years but not now. |
well, whatever, i disagree, since the EU will follow the views of the commission, who always support enlargement, and as consensus is a vital cog of the eu workings...a compromise will always be found...say Turkey to join, but have gradual restrictions taken away..so the sock of a big country is not to oo great...but hey...your not going to agree with me so i say we agree to disagree. |
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