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repulsewarrior
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2152
Location: a cypriot in canada
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I beleive we all know the expression, "unsinkable aircaft carrier". All of us, I believe, know that the interests of all the interlocutors, are best served by a divided island, in a state, where the island dwellers stay divided, to represent not each other, but only their own interests.
Cypriots, a people who have survived millenia, did not survive the wrong, originally thwarted by Makarios with his change of view, and the resulting, realisation of the Republic of Cyprus in 1960, a sovereign state representing all its citizens.
Hmm.. Moose, you raise an interesting point, Turkey and Greece, as well as England signed that Constitution as well. Therefore, having learned that there is a value to all people in protecting their Patrimony, I suggest that this Constitution is more blantantly disregarded than respected because the natural inclination to show a bias for selfish reasons, still outways the more important, and more challenging principal of respect for our Human Rights, as a Family of Man, with acts for its betterment.
Who is the victim, ourselves, evey single person on this planet, if we allow Cypriots to be forgotten, by ignoring their peaceful existence, before thay were divided to suit the needs of other National entities, into Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, rather than Cypriots who are Turcophone or Grecophone, with different needs, but sharing the same principals, that all people share everywhere equally. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
| It appears that some members wish to cherry-pick which sections of the 1960 constitution remain in force... If that is the case, then perhaps other members might wish to claim that the 1960 constitutional arrangements are wholly invalid and therefore the present government of the Republic of Cyprus does not represent the same entity created in 1960... interesting... ... |
The birth of the Republic of Cyprus as the government of Cyprus might have been delivered by the treaty of establishment which the UK, Greece and Turkey co-signed, but its right to continue to exist as such, after its inception and ever since, does not depend, rely or is a condition or a subject of those agreements. Cyprus has become a member of the UN and a subject of international law, as a sovereign nation /entity, and the right for its existence stems from the UN charter which is the pinnacle and ultimate of international law and legality. It is like a mother that has an exclusive right to conceive, carry and deliver a child, but once this child is born, it immediately becomes a natural person and the mother loses any right to determine whether it must stay alive or not.
The treaty of establishment, as well as the other treaties of alliance, guarantee, etc, are material only as far as their specific terms are concerned, but they are immaterial to the continuing existence of the entity whose establishment they initiated, and therefore their nullification, violation or alteration is an immaterial factor to the right of the Republic of Cyprus to continue its existence. The fact of the existence of the Republic of Cyprus and its right to continue to do so, have been acknowledged and recognized by a higher set of international law and authority, which is the UN charter and the UN organization, and do not depend any more on the existence or validity of those treaties. This was the mistake and the miscalculation that Turkey did, which though that by first derecognizing the Republic of Cyprus in 1964, it assumed that it would ceased to exist as such and this would have allowed Turkey to partition the country by invading and occupying it in 1974.
Now on our subject! According to the treaty of establishment, the British bases indeed appear to be legal and to a certain extent sovereign but not in absolute terms, even though the term that is used is that of sovereign. However, another treaty, the treaty of guarantee, states that the United Kingdom recognizes and guarantees the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus. The security and territorial integrity of Cyprus have been allowed to be violated by one or more of the contacting parties and Britain has done very little or nothing to prohibit or obstruct it (in fact quite the opposite,) and has done very little or nothing to restore it ever since (quite the opposite on this too,) even though it had and has the power of having done or doing so. Therefore, Britain had, has and continues to ignore and violate the treaty, together with Turkey. Greece had also violated the treaty, but only temporarily and for a fraction of the time that Turkey has done so, besides the fact that Greece doesn’t continue to violate it at present and unlike Turkey which blatantly does so until this very moment. Consequently, the Republic of Cyprus, in view of the fact that Britain is in an ongoing breach of contract with the it for ignoring and violating the terms of one of the 3 basic 1960 treaties -which must also be seen together as a set and are in fact seen as a set under the code name of “1960 agreements,” has the legitimate right to ignore and even violate the terms of the treaty of establishment which granted the UK its “sovereign” bases in Cyprus, should the people permanently and legally living in the area of those bases wish their territory to become part of the Republic of Cyprus. |
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Ferforge
Warnings : 2
Senior Villager
Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 187
Location: Gazi Baf (originally) Girne (after all)
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
If the current Republic of Cyprus government is the legal continuation of this same government, ... |
I think brits have doubts on that... |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5358
Location: National Forest, England
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| Ferforge wrote: |
| cannedmoose wrote: |
If the current Republic of Cyprus government is the legal continuation of this same government, ... |
I think brits have doubts on that... |
I don't think they do, I just think they wish for greater flexibility of the part of the Republic of Cyprus administration, rather than the dogmatic positioning being adopted by certain political actors with a vested interest in the status quo  |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
| Ferforge wrote: |
| cannedmoose wrote: |
If the current Republic of Cyprus government is the legal continuation of this same government, ... |
I think brits have doubts on that... |
I don't think they do, I just think they wish for greater flexibility of the part of the Republic of Cyprus administration, rather than the dogmatic positioning being adopted by certain political actors with a vested interest in the status quo |
How can the present "Government" of the so-callec "Republic of Cyprus" be considered "legal" when it is run by Greek Cypriot's only and the Turkish Cypriot's living both sides of the border have to fight the "Government" in courts for their rights like being able to vote or take part in elections at all? And of course every other "right" that the so-called "Republic of Cyprus" government has changed since 1963, like a Turkish Cypriot not being allowed to buy land anywhere in Cyprus that belongs to a Greek Cypriot?
The So-called "Republic of Cyprus" does not exist as it was agreed upon in 1960 and it's a joke that the world has recognised the Greek Cypriot's as the sole rulers of the so-called "Republic of Cyprus". It is also a bigger joke that it was allowed to enter the EU under these circumstances. |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5358
Location: National Forest, England
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Eric, it is legal because the rest of the world (excluding Turkey) deem it to be so. Legal provisions remain in place for participation by Turkish Cypriots in the governmental system and Turkish Cypriots legally have the same rights as Greek Cypriots in participating. I'm not sure about your assertion that Turkish Cypriots are not allowed to buy land in the Republic of Cyprus, I'd need to hear from others whether that is the case or not, I'd be surprised if it was.
The rest of the world doesn't "recognise Greek Cypriots as the sole rulers of Cyprus", but it does recognise the current administration of the Republic of Cyprus essentially as a caretaker administration of the rightful government, with provisions kept in place for a unified community government in the future. Had the Greek Cypriot authorities removed all of the 1960 provisions and junked the 1960 constitution as other members seem to be advocating, then it would be almost impossible for them to claim to be the successors of the rightful order. But as it stands, legality is in the eyes of the international community, and they say that the Republic of Cyprus is legal and the 'Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus' is not. |
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Crash Test Dummy
Warnings : 3
Ministerial
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 4941
Location: London(ish)
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| The Republic of Cyprus is a government recognised by the world as it was voted for by the people. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus gov commands stolen land |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Crash Test Dummy wrote: |
| The Republic of Cyprus is a government recognised by the world as it was voted for by the people. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus gov commands stolen land |
SO you agree that the "government" of the so-called "Republic of Cyprus" should only contain Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriot's living in the South should not have any rigts at all, right? |
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Crash Test Dummy
Warnings : 3
Ministerial
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 4941
Location: London(ish)
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| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| Crash Test Dummy wrote: |
| The Republic of Cyprus is a government recognised by the world as it was voted for by the people. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus gov commands stolen land |
SO you agree that the "government" of the so-called "Republic of Cyprus" should only contain Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriot's living in the South should not have any rigts at all, right? |
they do have rights |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Crash Test Dummy wrote: |
| Eric Dayi wrote: |
| Crash Test Dummy wrote: |
| The Republic of Cyprus is a government recognised by the world as it was voted for by the people. The Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus gov commands stolen land |
SO you agree that the "government" of the so-called "Republic of Cyprus" should only contain Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriot's living in the South should not have any rigts at all, right? |
they do have rights |
They do? Tell me about these "rights" they are supposed to have? |
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Crash Test Dummy
Warnings : 3
Ministerial
Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 4941
Location: London(ish)
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| what rights dont they have? |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Crash Test Dummy wrote: |
what rights dont they have?
do i hear pot, kettle and black in this statement? |
You claim that they have rights, then I am asking you to tell me about these rights.
Like, are they allowed to buy land from a Greek Cypriot?
Are they allowed to run for government positions?
Are they allowed to move into their houses without having to go to court and wait 3-4 years?
Education?
We are talking about the "legality" of the so-called "Republic of Cyprus" and not the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus CTD, can you answer these questions? |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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| Quote: |
| Like, are they allowed to buy land from a Greek Cypriot? |
I dont see why not...especially now due to the EU.
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| Are they allowed to run for government positions? |
yes...like that Turkish Cypriot lady who is runnign in the parliament elections...cant rememebr her name.
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| Are they allowed to move into their houses without having to go to court and wait 3-4 years? |
fair enuf...but at least tehy can move back...can Greek Cypriots dothe same in the north?
in Limassol, the Turkish Cypriot children are being educated...ok it may not be in a 'turkish' school, but the parents wanted them to be taught in the school they are in now, if i am not mistaken. |
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Eric Dayi
Warnings : 5
Deputy
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 1017
Location: ESSEX
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| Dhavlos wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Like, are they allowed to buy land from a Greek Cypriot? |
I dont see why not...especially now due to the EU.
| Quote: |
| Are they allowed to run for government positions? |
yes...like that Turkish Cypriot lady who is runnign in the parliament elections...cant rememebr her name. |
That Turkish Cypriot lady is a part of a Greek Cypriot political party, where are the Turkish Cypriot political praties in the South? Are the RC's allowed to have a Turkish Cypriot political party at all?
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| Are they allowed to move into their houses without having to go to court and wait 3-4 years? |
fair enuf...but at least tehy can move back...can Greek Cypriots dothe same in the north?
At least they can move back, LOL, do any Greek Cypriot's in the South have to fight the so-called "Government" to move in to their houses?
SO if it's not allowed in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus then it should not be allowed in a "Recognised Republic of Cyprus", is that what you are saying?
| Quote: |
| in Limassol, the Turkish Cypriot children are being educated...ok it may not be in a 'turkish' school, but the parents wanted them to be taught in the school they are in now, if i am not mistaken. |
If you had a choice of that school or no education for your children, what would you choose?
According to the 1960 constitution, are the Turkish Cypriot's allowed to have their own Turkish Schools or not? And do these Turkish schools exist or allowed to exist in the so-called "Republic of Cyprus"? |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5358
Location: National Forest, England
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| We're kinda off topic here folks... |
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