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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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The idea of this thread is to try and start the process of getting a single agreed version of history that ultimately could become a site FAQ.
The task is daunting. However we do not need to start with a blank sheet of paper. There are such efforts in existance already, the most notable being wikipedia's efforts. The advantage I think we might have over wikipedia is that we are a smaller mixed community with better knowledge of each other. Wikipedia has been and remains plagued by 'annoymous' editing of 'extremisits. We do not have this smae problem so maybe we can achieve something not possible on wikipedia itself. I certainly think it is worth a try.
So let's look at what there is already. The existing wikipedia entry on the cyprus dispute can be seen here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_dispute
However this entry has been and remains subject of constant disputes. As it says on the 'discussion' page attached to this entry
| Quote: |
This is a controversial topic, which may be disputed.
Please read this talk page discussion before making substantial changes.
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The discussions on this entry can be seen here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cyprus_dispute
(see the other archives as well)
Because of these disputes the pour soul who 'manages' this section of wikipedia has suggested a new start entirely. I personaly think if we have a go at doing this we should use this 'new version framework' as our starting point. It can be seen here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus_dispute/New_version
and the current discussions attached to it here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cyprus_dispute/New_version
So I think we should use this new version framework document and see if in our more controlled environment we can do what has not been done elsewhere - produce an agreed version of the history of the cyprus problem.
Last edited by erolz on Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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Erol, this is great idea. Im sorry but i would not know where to start....and my history on cyprus is not that good.
If people begin writing things, i would be happey to give my opinion on them(especially if they are deemed biased etc...) but my understanding is too vague to even attempt a real history. |
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Alexandros Lordos
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 324
Location: Cyprus/Greece
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Wow, where to start ... 
I think we should first do a list of "chapters", as the wikipedia chap has tried to do, and then each of us can try to write something for one particular chapter.
Possible Chapters, in a time-line style:
- Before the 1950s, historical roots of the Cyprus Problem
- The EOKA Struggle
- 1960-63, years of co-existence.
- The events of 63/64
- 1964-1974, early efforts for a solution
- The events of 1974
- 1974-1979, reaching the High Level Agreements.
- Declaration of 1983
- 1980s and 1990s, development of the two communities and efforts by the UN for an agreed solution
- The Annan Plan
- After 24 April 2004 ...
Ofcourse, there are other ways to separate this, not just the time-line style - e.g. from the viewpoint of the various "players" involved. This could be done concurrently with the time-line analysis, e.g. "1974 from a Greek Cypriot point of view, 1974 from a Turkish Cypriot point of view". Such an approach could bypass the problems of "agreeing the correct version of the past".
Just thoughts here, feel free to correct me ... |
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Dhavlos
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005
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Location: Birmingham
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| Quote: |
| from the viewpoint of the various "players" involved. This could be done concurrently with the time-line analysis, e.g. "1974 from a Greek Cypriot point of view, 1974 from a Turkish Cypriot point of view". Such an approach could bypass the problems of "agreeing the correct version of the past". |
that sounds like a good idea |
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Dhavlos
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005
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Location: Birmingham
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Erm, i found this on the BBC if it is a start:
Care to elaborate people?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/country_profiles/1021835.stm
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Timeline: Cyprus
A chronology of key events:
1914 - Cyprus annexed by Britain, after more than 300 years of Ottoman rule.
1925 - Becomes crown colony.
1955 - Greek Cypriots begin guerrilla war against British rule. The guerrilla movement, the National Organisation of Cypriot Combatants (EOKA), wants enosis (unification) with Greece.
1956 - Archbishop Makarios, head of enosis campaign, deported to the Seychelles.
1959 - Archbishop Makarios returns and is elected president.
1960 - Cyprus gains independence after Greek and Turkish communities reach agreement on a constitution. Britain retains sovereignty over two military bases. |
I suggest that if people are going to elaborate on a point raised bythe BBC, that they copy the relevent section, so people know what you are using |
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cannedmoose
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5357
Location: National Forest, England
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| Surprised they missed out 1878... |
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bg_turk
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Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 1316
Location: Bulgaria
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
| Surprised they missed out 1878... |
what happened in 1878?
I only know there was a russian-turkish war, and in fact that was the year when the bulgarian state was established. i.e. when bulgaria was liberated. |
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cannedmoose
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005
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Location: National Forest, England
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| bg_turk wrote: |
| cannedmoose wrote: |
| Surprised they missed out 1878... |
what happened in 1878?
I only know there was a russian-turkish war, and in fact that was the year when the bulgarian state was established. i.e. when bulgaria was liberated. |
Cyprus was signed over to Britain by the Ottomans in return for security guarantees against further encroachments by Russia. |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
| bg_turk wrote: |
| cannedmoose wrote: |
| Surprised they missed out 1878... |
what happened in 1878?
I only know there was a russian-turkish war, and in fact that was the year when the bulgarian state was established. i.e. when bulgaria was liberated. |
Cyprus was signed over to Britain by the Ottomans in return for security guarantees against further encroachments by Russia. |
Moose,
Was it signed over as a capitulation or a lease much like Hong Kong? I remember it as being the latter though I could be wrong. |
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respiridus
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Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 1965
Location: Pera Orinis, Nicosia, Cyprus
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| A simple way to start would be to admit that both sides have done horrible things to each other, that their stubbornness has resulted in Cypriots being taken advantage by foreign powers, and that it's time to reflect on our past in clear thinking, write down history properly, and look towards the future. |
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cannedmoose
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005
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Location: National Forest, England
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| Xenos 2Fan wrote: |
Moose,
Was it signed over as a capitulation or a lease much like Hong Kong? I remember it as being the latter though I could be wrong. |
From my understanding it was not leased on the same basis as HK, i.e. there being any defined time period. Instead, the UK agreed to pay the Sultan a certain percentage of the annual tax revenue from Cyprus. The conditions on the exchange of territory was that if the Russian threat to certain Ottoman provinces was removed, then the UK would cede Cyprus back to the Ottomans. Instead, WWI intervened and Cyprus was formally annexed in 1915. |
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boulio
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Joined: 09 Oct 2005
Posts: 294
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| the annexation by Britain resulted by the ottomans joining the German side,venizelos who wanted to join the allies was offered Cyprus by the British govt in return for joining the war in 1914,however due to the king of Greece at the time and who had German leanings Greece did not join till 1917. |
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Crash Test Dummy
Warnings : 3
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Joined: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 4911
Location: London(ish)
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| I do not have time to get involved in this thread but i really wish i did. i am looking forward to the end result. |
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Bullika
Warnings : 1
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 3025
Location: World
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
| bg_turk wrote: |
| cannedmoose wrote: |
| Surprised they missed out 1878... |
what happened in 1878?
I only know there was a russian-turkish war, and in fact that was the year when the bulgarian state was established. i.e. when bulgaria was liberated. |
Cyprus was signed over to Britain by the Ottomans in return for security guarantees against further encroachments by Russia. |
I guess what annoys most Turkish-Cypriots nationalists is that Turkey joined forces with Germany in 1914. This was a period when the Turkish Cypriot population declined the most, as many emigrated to Turkey rather than face problems with the British colonial government.
If Turkey hadnt have done this, Cyprus would have been like Pontus (Trabzon), a part of the new republic of Turkey and either the Greek Cypriots would have been protected in the Treaty of Sevres or exchanged in later years for the remaining Thracian Turks and Pomaks.
Imaine! Cyprus would have been a very different place today if Turkey hadn`t have joined forces with Germany. In fact it could quite easily have gone the other way. Who knows Tassos Papadopoulos might have been known as Sayin Recep Tayyip Papadobuloz MP, MHP (Nationalist Party), representing Limassol-West (renamed Ataturk City), part of the Cyprus province of the Republic of Turkiye.  |
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esarp
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Joined: 23 Dec 2005
Posts: 6
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| Bullika wrote: |
I guess what annoys most Turkish-Cypriots nationalists is that Turkey joined forces with Germany in 1914. This was a period when the Turkish Cypriot population declined the most, as many emigrated to Turkey rather than face problems with the British colonial government.
Imaine! Cyprus would have been a very different place today if Turkey hadn`t have joined forces with Germany. In fact it could quite easily have gone the other way. Who knows Tassos Papadopoulos might have been known as Sayin Recep Tayyip Papadobuloz MP, MHP (Nationalist Party), representing Limassol-West (renamed Ataturk City), part of the Cyprus province of the Republic of Turkiye. |
Well actually if that was the case there would still be Ottoman royalty in power, and religion would govern all of Turkey...
Below sites I think describe everything to the smallest detail, and I couldn't have said it better:
History of Greek & Turkish conflict:
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/turkey-greece%20history.htm
Recent History of Cyprus and economic implications on both communities:
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/zenon,%201963-74.htm
The only part of history I have not seen in any of the web-sites or articles is the EOKA's effort to forcefully remove Turkish minorities from some of the villages in Cyprus. I didn't know about this, until I learned recently from my father why our family had left Aysergi/Yeni Bogazici; a village near Salamis, that had 3-4 Turkish families until 1958. |
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