What is the EU????????

[brother]

What is the EU, for many years we have all praised or at least thought of the EU as a positive way forward but with its current dealings with Turkey many a person has been left with a bad taste in their mouth at how it is treating a muslim nation and how it has treated say eastern block christian countries and it also allowed a divided country like cyprus to enter the EU.

Hence i would like to know what everyone thinks of the EU, so if you can post an opinion and vote on the poll it would be much appreciated.

[cannedmoose]

Nice copy of the TDN poll Bro' Interesting how in that poll, 35% of voters say it's a Christian club...

[brother]

[Dhavlos]

well, Im doing a module of the EU....so it will be interesting to see what people think.

At first, it was for economic prosperity between the war-ridden nations of Europe. The theory was that, by integrating their economies, there would not be another world war. So another reason for the EEC(as it was then) was to keep an everlasting peace.

Now however, it has becomemore political and social....in the sense of workers rights etc...

Now, it is a socioeconomic and politcal bloc, imo, but if it is not careful....it will definately become a christian club

[cannedmoose]

It's not in doubt any longer as to whether the EU is an economic club, a political union or a social actor, as it's all three of these things and more. I think we have to be very careful when we talk about labels such as 'Christian club' because the EU's founding principles were not based upon any particular religion, but on the desire for the great powers of Europe not to end up destroying each other ever again. The Coal and Steel community that the EU was born out of was a simple economic agreement, but it also had political goals in fusing French and Germany industrial production capabilities to ensure that they would never end up producing weapons of war to fight each other. So, in essence, the EU has been a political union since the outset - the reference in the Treaty of Rome to the creation of 'an ever closer union' is evidence of that.

I also don't think that Turkey is being treated differently simply because it is a state populated by Muslims. I think it's easy to make that assumption, but for most Europeans and most statespeople, that isn't the key issue. The 10 key difficulties with Turkish membership are this:

1. Turkey's appalling track record on human rights;
2. The Kurdish problem;
3. Turkey's geostrategic position bordering some of the world's major troublespots;
4. The Cyprus problem;
5. Turkey's difficult relations with Greece;
6. Turkey's historical position in eastern Europe as an occupying power;
7. The role of the military in the Turkish state;
8. The underdevelopment of the country east of Ankara;
9. The task of absorbing 80 million people, with the associated agricultural costs, potential of mass migrations etc;
10. The suppression of free religious expression.

As you can see with most of these issues, they either relate to conflcits resulting from entrenched nationalism, anachronistic state institutions and the huge costs associated with integrating such a vast and relatively poor country into the EU. As you will also notice in regard to point 10, rather than viewing Turkey as some sort of pseudo-islamic republic, what concerns the EU vis-a-vis religion is the way that free expression of religious belief is not fully permitted in Turkey. If anything the EU promotes freedom of expression of both religion, language, culture etc. It's individual parties and people in Europe who oppose Turkish membership, not the EU system as a whole.

My personal view is that to succeed in its membership aspiration, what's required from Turkey is a cultural and political revolution akin to that undertaken by Ataturk in the 1920s and 1930s. Many elements of the Turkish state are incompatible with those of a European country trying to secure membership of a post-modern club like the EU. Some of the changes that will be demanded will require a fundamental reevaluation of Turkey's position in the region and of its driving state philosophy. The process of modernisation might have begun under the Ottomans, been ruthlessly implemented by Ataturk and carried by subsequent Turkish leaders, but the EU represents the ultimate test for how 'European' Turkey really wants to be. In being European, many of the tenets of Kemalism will have to be pushed aside, and I'm really not sure how possible that will be in such a short time frame. I can see Turkey as an EU member, but I think it will be a difficult and long process to get there.