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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
I'm just amazed at how many untruths are being said in this thread. Serkan, where have you learned your Cyprus history?
I do not agree what people say here that we should not discuss the past. There is so much that needs to be unearthed before we can move on. The perpertrators of crimes commited in Cyprus on both sides still roam free. These people need to be brought to account. Denying the events of the past will only lead to worse things in the future. |
Mikkie,
In Greek we have a saying “drios pesousis, pas anir ksilevete,” which means, “once a tree has fallen, every man acts like a woodcutter!”
Serkan posted some misconceptions, which have already been pointed out by a few people. That doesn’t mean that from now on, everyone in the forum will have nothing else to do than attacking Sekran. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| -mikkie2- wrote: |
I'm just amazed at how many untruths are being said in this thread. Serkan, where have you learned your Cyprus history?
I do not agree what people say here that we should not discuss the past. There is so much that needs to be unearthed before we can move on. The perpertrators of crimes commited in Cyprus on both sides still roam free. These people need to be brought to account. Denying the events of the past will only lead to worse things in the future. |
Mikkie,
In Greek we have a saying “drios pesousis, pas anir ksilevete,” which means, “once a tree has fallen, every man acts like a woodcutter!”
Serkan posted some misconceptions, which have already been pointed out by a few people. That doesn’t mean that from now on, everyone in the forum will have nothing else to do than attacking Sekran. |
This is from the man who believes he is the oracle,
| Quote: |
Serkan, please!
Either do some deep and through studying of past history and events or better not talk at all, because from what you already said so far one thing is certain, that you are messed up! You simply do not know what you are talking about and you are making a foul of your self, even to some Turkish Cypriots who happen to know more.
I would have tried to correct you but I do not know from where to start, as it seems all you know is bits and peaces straight from the Turkish propaganda sources, which you regurgitate without even knowing whether they fit in context or not. |
you are truly amazing Kifeas. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
This is from the man who believes he is the oracle,
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I certainly do not beilive I am the oracle, however, what I know is that I know a hell a lot more than you know! |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5357
Location: National Forest, England
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
This is from the man who believes he is the oracle,
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I certainly do not beilive I am the oracle, however, what I know is that I know a hell a lot more than you know! |
I wish you two would just go out for an ouzo/raki together...  |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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Viewpoint,
There are historical facts and there is propaganda. You seem to believe much more the propaganda than the facts.
Cannedmoose, we drink zivania re, not ouzo or raki! |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
Viewpoint,
There are historical facts and there is propaganda. You seem to believe much more the propaganda than the facts.
Cannedmoose, we drink zivania re, not ouzo or raki! |
Facts according to who Greek Cypriots Turkish Cypriots or the world? name your sources...mikkie2 Kindly care to detail what I have quoted as propaganda? |
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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5357
Location: National Forest, England
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| -mikkie2- wrote: |
| Cannedmoose, we drink zivania re, not ouzo or raki! |
I thought I was the only person who drinks zivania... everyone keeps telling me they hate it... |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
This is from the man who believes he is the oracle,
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I certainly do not beilive I am the oracle, however, what I know is that I know a hell a lot more than you know! |
Ok, almighty Oracle  |
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Mete
Warnings : 3
Deputy
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 1150
Location: Boston
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| mikkie2 wrote: |
There are historical facts and there is propaganda. You seem to believe much more the propaganda than the facts
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It's not as simple as you suggested. Even the simplest "historical truths" can be interpreted differently by two different people/groups. My personal opinion is that there are no historical truths but only historical interpretations which depend on many factors. Some people tend to label every interpretation that they don't agree with as propaganda. I consider them as different views. |
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Serkan
Villager
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Australia
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Guys,
Why is it that everytime I put forward my arguments, that I am told that I am messed up or am spreading Turkish propoganda?
Why is it that everytime a Greek Cypriot point of view is put forward it is hailed the truth with minimal resistance?
I acknowledge we are all passionate about Cyprus..regardless if you are Greek or Turkish.
It saddens me that I cannot express my point of view without being insulted. I don't mind people re-butting my arguments with facts or personal views etc..but when I am openly attacked..it doesn't get anywhere. Hence this is the reason why I left the Cyprus Forum website last time.
I am all ears for a Greek Cypriot point of view. I acknowledge that I do not know everything about Cyprus, but I consider myself to have a very good understanding of the fundamentals of the Cyprus problem. I have educated myself from a variety of Turkish, Greek and English resources. Both primary and secondary sources.
We have to be open towards differing opinions in such a forum shared by Turks and Greeks. If we all come in here and write the same arguments..how boring will this forum be? Everybody agreeing with eachother until the chickens come home (Aussie slang term)!!
We have to acknowledge that a compromise needs to be reached in Cyprus if some sought of concrete solution is to be formed. At this stage I cannot see this happening for at least the next 1000 years.
I have no choice but to continue working towards promoting my homeland..that being the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.
Before I depart I wanna state that even the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus President Mehmet Ali Talat (Left wing politician) has been recently quoted to say -
"According to the Greeks a good Turk is one that thinks like a Greek."
Take care everybody. |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1409
Location: Australia
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Serkan,merhabalar
I am glad you are still with us.Maybe the reason why we won't solve the problem for 1000 years is that you think your home is the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.If you thought your home was Cyprus,all of it,and if you started seeing the political games played on us Cypriots,and raised your voice against it,we might come to a solution sooner.
And don't worry about what Talat says.He says what he is told to say.
The tragedy in Cyprus politics is that irrespective of their leanings (left or right) their thinking is dominated by their ethnic origins.For a left wing Turkish Cypriot politician a right wing Turkish Cypriot politician is more acceptable than a left wing Greek Cypriot politician.Politics in Cyprus is more like tribal warfare than democratic struggle.That is another reason why it will be difficult to find a compromise solution. That is why people like me keep advocating a return to the 1960 constitution with all its imperfections.That was one thing we agreed on,one treaty that carries all our signatures.And being the majority,and economically stronger side,the Greek Cypriots should show magnonimity and take us back despite the fact that 1960 constitution was not entirely democratic.We can then work on making it more and more democratic,as we get less and less paranoid about each other.But alas,i am singing in the wind about this one,I know. |
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erolz
Site Admin
Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4195
Location: Kyrenia / Girne
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| Birkibrisli wrote: |
Serkan,merhabalar
I am glad you are still with us. |
Why wouldn't he be?
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
Maybe the reason why we won't solve the problem for 1000 years is that you think your home is the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.If you thought your home was Cyprus,all of it,and if you started seeing the political games played on us Cypriots,and raised your voice against it,we might come to a solution sooner. |
I think of the Republic of Northern Cyprus as my home because I live in the Republic of Northern Cyprus. I would like there to be renuification and for my home to inculde all of Cyprus but as the situation stands today I do not consider all of Cyprus my home.
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
And don't worry about what Talat says.He says what he is told to say. |
An easy accusation to make, yet Talat is our democraticaly elected leader and was elected to power on a mandate of finding a settlement.
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
The tragedy in Cyprus politics is that irrespective of their leanings (left or right) their thinking is dominated by their ethnic origins.For a left wing Turkish Cypriot politician a right wing Turkish Cypriot politician is more acceptable than a left wing Greek Cypriot politician.Politics in Cyprus is more like tribal warfare than democratic struggle.That is another reason why it will be difficult to find a compromise solution. |
Cyprus politics is a reflection of the Cypriot people. The reason why CYprus politicans act in a trobal manner is because the Cypriot people did and many continue to do so. There has never been any effort to build a Cypriot nation by the _people_ (not just politicians) of Cyprus. It is because Greek Cypriots have tried and continue to try and build Greek Cypriot nation and Turkish Cypriots have built a Turkish Cypriot nation in response that we are still two tribes in one island. We had a chance in 1960 to build a cypriot nation and the people of CYprus, not just their politicans, destroyed this chance in the persuit of purely Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot visions and desires. Just blaming the politicans for this behaviour is an easy get out imo.
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
That is why people like me keep advocating a return to the 1960 constitution with all its imperfections.That was one thing we agreed on,one treaty that carries all our signatures.And being the majority,and economically stronger side,the Greek Cypriots should show magnonimity and take us back despite the fact that 1960 constitution was not entirely democratic.We can then work on making it more and more democratic,as we get less and less paranoid about each other.But alas,i am singing in the wind about this one,I know. |
You state that the 60 consitituion was agreed and carry each communites signature, yet the Greek Cypriot claim that many still claim today that these agreements were not agreed by them but forced unfairly on them (even though there is little doubt that if they had been put to Greek Cypriot people in 59 they would have supported them). Today they still argue that as such the attempts to force unilateral change in these agreements, the ignoring of supreme court rulings, the ignoring of the consitution itself were all 'legitimate' acts on the part of their community - because they did not agree these things but had them forced upon them. Given this how can we return to these agreements on the basis the are the only agreed documents? |
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Birkibrisli
Deputy
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 1409
Location: Australia
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| erolz wrote: |
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
Serkan,merhabalar
I am glad you are still with us. |
Why wouldn't he be?
Because at one point he was threatening to exile himself to the "foot fetish thread"
| Birkibrisli wrote: |
That is why people like me keep advocating a return to the 1960 constitution with all its imperfections.That was one thing we agreed on,one treaty that carries all our signatures.And being the majority,and economically stronger side,the Greek Cypriots should show magnonimity and take us back despite the fact that 1960 constitution was not entirely democratic.We can then work on making it more and more democratic,as we get less and less paranoid about each other.But alas,i am singing in the wind about this one,I know. |
You state that the 60 consitituion was agreed and carry each communites signature, yet the Greek Cypriot claim that many still claim today that these agreements were not agreed by them but forced unfairly on them (even though there is little doubt that if they had been put to Greek Cypriot people in 59 they would have supported them). Today they still argue that as such the attempts to force unilateral change in these agreements, the ignoring of supreme court rulings, the ignoring of the consitution itself were all 'legitimate' acts on the part of their community - because they did not agree these things but had them forced upon them. Given this how can we return to these agreements on the basis the are the only agreed documents? |
I see your point,Erol.But it wasn't only the Greek Cypriots who were at fault in abandoning the 1960 constitution.With an eye on Partition the Turkish Cypriots did all they could to force the hand of the Greek Cypriots.At one stage they even vetoed a Tax Bill,so that Makarios could not collect the money necessary to run the country. If the Turkish Cypriots had stood their grounds or tried to negotiated a more balanced constitution (for it was obviously favouring the Turkish Cypriots) instead of sulking and going home to complain to Mummy,it wouldn't have been so easy for Makarios to lock them out of the Republic.
But the question is how many Turkish Cypriots living in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and how many settlers are now in favour of asking back their constitutional rights as it was agreed (and I won't buy "we were forced agreement" -if you signed it you agreed to it full stop) in 1960? And how many Greek Cypriots are prepared to go back to it,for that matter?
I am aware that the BDH of Akinci is now making noises about our rights under the Rof C of 1960,but it sounds hollow to me.It sounds as if Akinci wants to have his cake (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus) and eat it as well (Go back to the Republic of Cyprus). |
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magikthrill
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 630
Location: NYC
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kifeas i believe the Turkish Cypriots vetoed a tax bill because Makarios refused to allow municipalities to run themselves (which i believe was enforced by the supreme court?)
when you talk like that you dont only embarass yourself but those whose ideas you support.
*In all fairness though I'm not 100% sure about the municpal thing but I know the tax veto was in resposne to something similar. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| magikthrill wrote: |
kifeas i believe the Turkish Cypriots vetoed a tax bill because Makarios refused to allow municipalities to run themselves (which i believe was enforced by the supreme court?)
when you talk like that you dont only embarass yourself but those whose ideas you support.
*In all fairness though I'm not 100% sure about the municpal thing but I know the tax veto was in resposne to something similar. |
Are you sure you are replying to some posting of mine from this forum or to someone else's posting from another forum?    |
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