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brother
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The European Parliament (EP) demanded Turkey recognize South Cyprus as soon as possible in a draft resolution issued on Tuesday.
EP publicized its "common solution proposal" resolution draft that will be voted on Wednesday.
Negotiations can be halted, the draft underlines, if Turkey does not recognize South Cyprus and describes Ankara's withdrawal of troops from the island as a "necessity."
The rest or the article at link below
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&trh=20050928&hn=24636
It seems like the EU dream is about to come to an abrupt end for Turkey |
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brother
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cannedmoose
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005
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Until it comes to the time for them to sign off Turkey's accession document, the EP is a toothless tiger... I'm sure we'll see plenty of rhetoric from them in the coming years, but ultimately all of these people answer to their national parties, so chances are, for example, if the British Labour representatives started causing trouble for Turkey they would be deselected to stand in the seat next time... politicians self-interest being what it is, I know what the outcome would be...  |
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Viewpoint
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Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
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Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Its much better that the EU tells Turkey what is exactly required rather than putting these surprise obstacles in their way in year 9 or 13 for example. From the news reports tonight I have gathered that the important EU meeting is on Sunday night that will clarify exactly what is expected of Turkey and will determine whether Turkey will be in Brussels on Monday.Things are heating up and could explode anytime over the next few days. |
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erolz
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| There is nothing new from the EP as moose says. They have made such resolutions before and no doubt will again. This resolution does not affect the accession process. |
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Kifeas
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Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Viewpoint wrote: |
| Its much better that the EU tells Turkey what is exactly required rather than putting these surprise obstacles in their way in year 9 or 13 for example. From the news reports tonight I have gathered that the important EU meeting is on Sunday night that will clarify exactly what is expected of Turkey and will determine whether Turkey will be in Brussels on Monday.Things are heating up and could explode anytime over the next few days. |
Viewpoint,
Don't you realize that they were all counting and anticipating that we would have done the job for them and block Turkey's negotiations to start on the 3rd of October and now that we got what we wanted and decided not to block Turkey, they were all caught unprepared and are now looking for other last minute ways and methods to justify the non-starting of Turkeys negotiations.
I think you must appreciate this!
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Viewpoint
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Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Viewpoint wrote: |
| Its much better that the EU tells Turkey what is exactly required rather than putting these surprise obstacles in their way in year 9 or 13 for example. From the news reports tonight I have gathered that the important EU meeting is on Sunday night that will clarify exactly what is expected of Turkey and will determine whether Turkey will be in Brussels on Monday.Things are heating up and could explode anytime over the next few days. |
Viewpoint,
Don't you realize that they were all counting and anticipating that we would have done the job for them and block Turkey's negotiations to start on the 3rd of October and now that we got what we wanted and decided not to block Turkey, they were all caught unprepared and are now looking for other last minute ways and methods to justify the non-starting of Turkeys negotiations.
I think you must appreciate this!
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I do and as I mentioned above its better done early on so Turkey does not waste time trying to deal with all the crap thrown before her. At least this way she will end her EU aspirations and look elsewhere.
Where does that leave Cyprus? |
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erolz
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Joined: 11 Aug 2005
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| Kifeas wrote: |
Viewpoint,
Don't you realize that they were all counting and anticipating that we would have done the job for them and block Turkey's negotiations to start on the 3rd of October and now that we got what we wanted and decided not to block Turkey, they were all caught unprepared and are now looking for other last minute ways and methods to justify the non-starting of Turkeys negotiations.
I think you must appreciate this!
|
Who is they Kifeas?
I think you do not understand the EU and the role and the powers the EP has within the EU. These latest 'resolutions' from the EP , on armenia genocide issue for example, are nothing new. Neither are it's calls for recognition to be a pre requimrment of accession. The EP has said all these things before. The reality remains that the EP does not have any say in the start of accession or the accession process. They get to vote to ratify the final accession and thats it. It is the commision and the counilc of ministers that have a say and influence the accesion process. So the whole idea that the EP has suddenly come up with these things to cover the fact that Republic of Cyprus did not block accession is just a fundamental misunderstading of hoe the Eu works in these matters. Nothing has changed. The EP position has not changed. More importantly the commisions position has not changed. |
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Viewpoint
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Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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| erolz wrote: |
| There is nothing new from the EP as moose says. They have made such resolutions before and no doubt will again. This resolution does not affect the accession process. |
Surely erolz the meeting of foreign ministers on Sunday night will determine the framework of accession talks and if the is any content of what the EU parliament is coming up with Turkey wont even bother to show on Monday in Brussels that's what the news reports we saying to night. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| erolz wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
Viewpoint,
Don't you realize that they were all counting and anticipating that we would have done the job for them and block Turkey's negotiations to start on the 3rd of October and now that we got what we wanted and decided not to block Turkey, they were all caught unprepared and are now looking for other last minute ways and methods to justify the non-starting of Turkeys negotiations.
I think you must appreciate this!
|
Who is they Kifeas?
I think you do not understand the EU and the role and the powers the EP has within the EU. These latest 'resolutions' from the EP , on armenia genocide issue for example, are nothing new. Neither are it's calls for recognition to be a pre requimrment of accession. The EP has said all these things before. The reality remains that the EP does not have any say in the start of accession or the accession process. They get to vote to ratify the final accession and thats it. It is the commision and the counilc of ministers that have a say and influence the accesion process. So the whole idea that the EP has suddenly come up with these things to cover the fact that Republic of Cyprus did not block accession is just a fundamental misunderstading of hoe the Eu works in these matters. Nothing has changed. The EP position has not changed. More importantly the commisions position has not changed. |
I know very well how the EU functions Erol. With “they” I mean all the forces within the EU who do not favor Turkey’s EU accession at all. Be it in the parliament, council, commission, some governments, etc. |
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erolz
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Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 4211
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| I know very well how the EU functions Erol. With “they” I mean all the forces within the EU who do not favor Turkey’s EU accession at all. Be it in the parliament, council, commission, some governments, etc. |
So your 'thesis' is these forces were expecting Republic of Cyprus to block Turkish accession. When they did not they then used the EP to issue a resolution and a statment to make up for this fact, even though they had done this before the Republic of Cyprus had not blocked entry and even though doing so does nothing to block entry? Does not make sense to me. The EP has said nothing new and has laways had the same view and position. Yet you see this 'business as ususal' as being a reaction to the Republic of Cyprus not blocking Turkish entry? Bizzare!
| viewpoint wrote: |
Surely erolz the meeting of foreign ministers on Sunday night will determine the framework of accession talks and if the is any content of what the EU parliament is coming up with Turkey wont even bother to show on Monday in Brussels that's what the news reports we saying to night. |
The talks for agreeing a framework document start tomorrow. These talks are nothing to do with the EP at all. They are between the emeber states and the comission. If they fail to agree a framework docuement or decide to add new requirments in it that are unacceptable to Turkey it will NOT be because of anyhting the EP did today. Will will soon see if a framework docuement can be agreed and what it will contain and if Turkey will accept it or not. The member states and comission do not 'care' what the EP does. If they did then there would not be any meeting tomorrow to agree a framework document. The EP has been against Turkish entry and demanding this requirment or that requirment for ages. It is not the EP that deicdes these things. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| erolz wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| I know very well how the EU functions Erol. With “they” I mean all the forces within the EU who do not favor Turkey’s EU accession at all. Be it in the parliament, council, commission, some governments, etc. |
So your 'thesis' is these forces were expecting Republic of Cyprus to block Turkish accession. When they did not they then used the EP to issue a resolution and a statment to make up for this fact, even though they had done this before the Republic of Cyprus had not blocked entry and even though doing so does nothing to block entry? Does not make sense to me. The EP has said nothing new and has laways had the same view and position. Yet you see this 'business as ususal' as being a reaction to the Republic of Cyprus not blocking Turkish entry? Bizzare!
| viewpoint wrote: |
Surely erolz the meeting of foreign ministers on Sunday night will determine the framework of accession talks and if the is any content of what the EU parliament is coming up with Turkey wont even bother to show on Monday in Brussels that's what the news reports we saying to night. |
The talks for agreeing a framework document start tomorrow. These talks are nothing to do with the EP at all. They are between the emeber states and the comission. If they fail to agree a framework docuement or decide to add new requirments in it that are unacceptable to Turkey it will NOT be because of anyhting the EP did today. Will will soon see if a framework docuement can be agreed and what it will contain and if Turkey will accept it or not. The member states and comission do not 'care' what the EP does. If they did then there would not be any meeting tomorrow to agree a framework document. The EP has been against Turkish entry and demanding this requirment or that requirment for ages. It is not the EP that deicdes these things. |
Erol, you better go back and read again what viewpoint was saying to which I replied, than trying to make your OWN assumption of what I said and which has no connection to what I actually said. I was making a general reference to all the reactions and obstacles against Turkey in the EU, as was also Viewpoint doing so. |
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erolz
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Joined: 11 Aug 2005
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| Erol, you better go back and read again what viewpoint was saying to which I replied, than trying to make your OWN assumption of what I said and which has no connection to what I actually said. I was making a general reference to all the reactions and obstacles against Turkey in the EU, as was also Viewpoint doing so. |
I am trying to understand what you were / are saying - nothing more and nothing less.
Talking about the 'EU' and 'they' in a thread about a decision by the EP is very confusing and misleading in it's own right. The EU is made up of three main elements - the EP, Comission and Council of Ministers (member states). These are often at 'odds' with each other. As far as Turkish accession goes the EP is a 'bit player' - the decisions are made by the Comission and council of ministers.
So who was it, according to you, that was expecting the Republic of Cyprus to have vetoed Turkish entry and is was caught 'unprepared' and what do you think they have done as a reaction to this?
That is what I am trying to understand. If you think the reaction to this 'suprise' that the Republic of Cyprus has not vetoed Turkish accesion is what happned in the EP today, I think you are just wrong.
Those forces in the EU that want to block Turkish entry within the bodies that _matter_ (the comission of which there are few or none, and member states of which there are some) may well have been _hoping_ that the Republic of Cyprus did this for them but none of them would have been _counting_ on this. They would not be in a state of 'surprise' that it did not happen and their strategy for what they will do if the Republic of Cyprus does not block entry 'for them' will have been worked out from months if not years ago and thus there would be no 'last minute looking for alternatives'. So I am still struggling to undertsand what it is you are saying? |
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brother
Warnings : 3
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Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Posts: 8938
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| erolz wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| Erol, you better go back and read again what viewpoint was saying to which I replied, than trying to make your OWN assumption of what I said and which has no connection to what I actually said. I was making a general reference to all the reactions and obstacles against Turkey in the EU, as was also Viewpoint doing so. |
I am trying to understand what you were / are saying - nothing more and nothing less.
Talking about the 'EU' and 'they' in a thread about a decision by the EP is very confusing and misleading in it's own right. The EU is made up of three main elements - the EP, Comission and Council of Ministers (member states). These are often at 'odds' with each other. As far as Turkish accession goes the EP is a 'bit player' - the decisions are made by the Comission and council of ministers.
So who was it, according to you, that was expecting the Republic of Cyprus to have vetoed Turkish entry and is was caught 'unprepared' and what do you think they have done as a reaction to this?
That is what I am trying to understand. If you think the reaction to this 'suprise' that the Republic of Cyprus has not vetoed Turkish accesion is what happned in the EP today, I think you are just wrong.
Those forces in the EU that want to block Turkish entry within the bodies that _matter_ (the comission of which there are few or none, and member states of which there are some) may well have been _hoping_ that the Republic of Cyprus did this for them but none of them would have been _counting_ on this. They would not be in a state of 'surprise' that it did not happen and their strategy for what they will do if the Republic of Cyprus does not block entry 'for them' will have been worked out from months if not years ago and thus there would be no 'last minute looking for alternatives'. So I am still struggling to undertsand what it is you are saying? |
I have to agree with erol on this one as i firmly believe most situations are pre-agreed in politics and then played out for the publics benefit and no doubt all the persons/countries etc. that want Turkey out have a plan A, B, C and D more than likely. |
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erolz
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I also find it somewhat disconcerting that people like Kifeas (and presumably many other Greek Cypriots?) have this impression that the Republic of Cyprus 'got what it wanted' on the counter decleration. It seems clear to me they did not and it would also seem to be the view also outside of the Republic of Cyprus.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4290452.stm
| Quote: |
For the Papadopoulos government, on the other hand, the controversy has been a salutary experience, highlighting the limited bargaining power that a small state such as Cyprus has when it comes to influencing EU policy.
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