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cannedmoose
Warnings : 4
Moderator
Joined: 12 Aug 2005
Posts: 5358
Location: National Forest, England
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6078382.stm
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EU Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn has warned that a new bid to re-unite the divided island of Cyprus could be the last chance of progress for years.
He called on EU member states to back Finnish efforts to open a Turkish Cypriot port to trade with the EU, by putting it under UN control.
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The first tightening of the screw... |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| cannedmoose wrote: |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6078382.stm
| Quote: |
EU Enlargement Commissioner Olli Rehn has warned that a new bid to re-unite the divided island of Cyprus could be the last chance of progress for years.
He called on EU member states to back Finnish efforts to open a Turkish Cypriot port to trade with the EU, by putting it under UN control.
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The first tightening of the screw... |
There seems to be a behind the scenes wide-consensus among a growing number of member states to freeze Turkey's accession negotiations for at least one year, and then re-examine the prospects to re-commence them in 2008, provided that the current obstacles are surpassed by then. The problem seems to be the elections in Turkey in 2007, and which prompt the Turkish government (and the opposition) to maintain and promote an uncompromising and nationalistic stance, for populist reasons. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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wondering if the freezing wont simply raise the anti-EU sentiments in turkey  |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| cypezokyli wrote: |
| wondering if the freezing wont simply raise the anti-EU sentiments in turkey |
If it will raise the anti-EU sentiments in Turkey, then so be it! It is about time the people of Turkey and their political leaderships and institutions make up their mind and decide what they want. |
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Viewpoint
Warnings : 2
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 971
Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia
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This will automatically mean that no Turkish ports will be open and and hope of recommencement of talks will also be frozen. This will also damage the AKP pro EU parties credibility with its own people effecting them negatively at the polls as the opposition parties will play on this failure.
What will it mean to the Greek Cypriot south? A freeze on any any progress for the next year when we will see an election in the south. |
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cypezokyli
Ministerial
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 2344
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| cypezokyli wrote: |
| wondering if the freezing wont simply raise the anti-EU sentiments in turkey |
If it will raise the anti-EU sentiments in Turkey, then so be it! It is about time the people of Turkey and their political leaderships and institutions make up their mind and decide what they want. |
then so be it ? !!!
if the european leaders decide for a suspencion, and assuming that nationalist sendimends do rise, then i dont see the point of the suspension! i mean the suspension should have a sound reason and a sound target.
it would make sense if the EU wants to continue with erdogan, and erdogan can sell such a suspension as "a success" ! (both dont sound that convincing to be honest)
and from a cypriot perspective, i wouldnt just claim : "then so be it" !!! if turkey decides that they dont want the EU anymore, a whole (and the only real) strategy we had for years will simply collapse. then from where do you expect the solution to come ?
but i guess we are sure, that turkey has no other choise.. |
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Khan
Deputy
Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 1092
Location: London
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| I dont know where you get this view that there is a wide consensus to freeze negotiations. I do see a consensus however that stopping the negotiations will make them very difficult or perhaps impossible to restart, it is much more probable negotiations will continue on those chapters not related to the customs agreement. Cyprus may try to veto this, but i'm sure it will be put into line. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| Khan wrote: |
| I dont know where you get this view that there is a wide consensus to freeze negotiations. I do see a consensus however that stopping the negotiations will make them very difficult or perhaps impossible to restart, it is much more probable negotiations will continue on those chapters not related to the customs agreement. Cyprus may try to veto this, but i'm sure it will be put into line. |
I am talking about freezing and not terminating /suspending! Freezing for a given period of time (i.e. one year,) with the condition of defreezing upon Turkey meeting the present conditions in front of her, before the end of the specified period. Should at the end of the freezing period, Turkey continues not to fulfill the EU terms and conditions, there will an option for permanent suspension of its EU process. |
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Kifeas
Warnings : 6
Ministerial
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 2733
Location: Location: Pafos-Cyprus, since 1974 ethnic cleansing. Originally, Lapithos, northern occupied Cyprus.
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| cypezokyli wrote: |
| Kifeas wrote: |
| cypezokyli wrote: |
| wondering if the freezing wont simply raise the anti-EU sentiments in turkey |
If it will raise the anti-EU sentiments in Turkey, then so be it! It is about time the people of Turkey and their political leaderships and institutions make up their mind and decide what they want. |
then so be it ? !!!
if the european leaders decide for a suspencion, and assuming that nationalist sendimends do rise, then i dont see the point of the suspension! i mean the suspension should have a sound reason and a sound target.
it would make sense if the EU wants to continue with erdogan, and erdogan can sell such a suspension as "a success" ! (both dont sound that convincing to be honest)
and from a cypriot perspective, i wouldnt just claim : "then so be it" !!! if turkey decides that they dont want the EU anymore, a whole (and the only real) strategy we had for years will simply collapse. then from where do you expect the solution to come ?
but i guess we are sure, that turkey has no other choise.. |
And what do you suggest? Should we instead let Turkey have a free ride in continuing its EU accession process, without fulfilling the terms and conditions set up for and /or agreed by her? Is this a better solution for us? Don’t you see that Turkey is trying to take us and the entire EU itself for a ride? |
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Dhavlos
Warnings : 1
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 4697
Location: Birmingham
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I think kifeas may be right when he says that the up-coming turkish elections are a problem. Any government is not going to look 'weak' when an election is looming, so onceit is over, im sure they will be more willing to compromise.
All politicains turn 'patriotic' when an election looms. They dont want to seem 'weak ' to the electorate.
The question is: does the EU(and/or Cyprus) have teh 'patience/time' to wait for the Turkish elections? |
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-mikkie2-
Mukhtar/is
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 603
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The problem for Turkey is that Cyprus will always be in front of her regarding the EU.
Knowing that the US, UK and other powerful states want to see Turkey in, all things point to solving the Cyprob sooner rather than later.
In my opinion, Rhen is scare mongering. |
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repulsewarrior
Ministerial
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 2152
Location: a cypriot in canada
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I think it is denial on our part because this impasse cannot go on forever. But, I think it is scare mongering, as well, on Rehn's part.
Elections in Turkey, Elections in Cyprus, and the whole ball will role again. Maybe bad for Cyprus... but very bad for Turkey as well.
Bad for Occidental politics in general, and bad for the world if you ask me, with a train wreck, or a total collapse. |
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pg
Deputy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1485
Location: Cyprus
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I believe things need to get worse in Turkey before it can get better. Basically, the Turkish politicians does not believe that the public would accept changing policies as required to get closer to Europe. Most likely the official policies will be taken to an even more nationalistic (or perhaps islamist) view, by elections, before Turkey will realize that there is a better future closer to the 'Western views'. So, after things has gone worse, Turkey will most probably come back; come to it senses...
At that point I believe that at that point (probably 3-5 years away) Turkey will very easily accept, for example 301, and similar required changes. However, it is quite possible that when that time comes Turkey will reform - bit for its own sake, nit for the EU. I also believe that Turkey will align itself more with European values, but choose to stay outside the EU in order to protect its own sovereignty.
For Cyprus this may actually be better than it seems. The reason is that IMHO Turkey now keeps Cyprus as a trump card - to be used in the EU negotiations. Once Turkey changes its mind with regards to the EU, but at the same time gets closer to Europe, the time comes for Cyprus. The reason is that Cyprus will no longer have a (trump) value, and instead be a liability for Turkey. |
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RudeGal
Senior Villager
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 386
Location: London
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This is last chance saloon! The Cyprus problem will not continue ad infinitum.
If the EU freezes Turkey's accession, both Turks and Turkish Cypriots will see it as more evidence of hypocrisy and double-standards. Direct trade and aid were promised to North CYprus, where is it? Just more and more new strings attached. Enough!
The recent developments give me no positive vibes. The Finns clearly haven't got a clue - fancy trying to "help" Cyprus, and then not even consult the Turkish Cypriots about their Cyprus proposal  The EU is a white Christian club & so full of crap when it comes to anything Turkish, we all know Turkey ain't ever getting in (do we Turkish Cypriots/Turks even care anymore? Let the Brits and the Americans stew that their global strategy is in turmoil..). The Greek Cypriots are too self-absorbed with their own trauma & their Win-Lose scenario for Cyprus to ever see the big picture (cor blimey, they couldn't even bring themselves to attend a UN party where Turkish Cypriots at, let alone strike a deal and form a united Govt and share power with Turkish Cypriots). Turkey just wants shot of this problem - but can't afford to do so at any cost, and Turkish Cypriots have have almost 50 years of this crap and are all over the shop with their current politics. It is all too painful.
Only direction we all headed in is apart...  |
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Xenos 2Fan
Warnings : 5
Ministerial
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 3499
Location: Dallas,Texas/Mersin, Turkey
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| RudeGal wrote: |
This is last chance saloon! The Cyprus problem will not continue ad infinitum.
If the EU freezes Turkey's accession, both Turks and Turkish Cypriots will see it as more evidence of hypocrisy and double-standards. Direct trade and aid were promised to North CYprus, where is it? Just more and more new strings attached. Enough!
The recent developments give me no positive vibes. The Finns clearly haven't got a clue - fancy trying to "help" Cyprus, and then not even consult the Turkish Cypriots about their Cyprus proposal The EU is a white Christian club & so full of crap when it comes to anything Turkish, we all know Turkey ain't ever getting in (do we Turkish Cypriots/Turks even care anymore? Let the Brits and the Americans stew that their global strategy is in turmoil..). The Greek Cypriots are too self-absorbed with their own trauma & their Win-Lose scenario for Cyprus to ever see the big picture (cor blimey, they couldn't even bring themselves to attend a UN party where Turkish Cypriots at, let alone strike a deal and form a united Govt and share power with Turkish Cypriots). Turkey just wants shot of this problem - but can't afford to do so at any cost, and Turkish Cypriots have have almost 50 years of this crap and are all over the shop with their current politics. It is all too painful.
Only direction we all headed in is apart... |
Unfortunately you are correct RG. We as Turks have all but abandoned the prospect of joining the EU. The EU is basically saying to us that Turks are culturaly and moraly inferior to them and that's where the game stops. No more games, no more intrigue, just stop the merry go around and let's get off.
It's funny how many "specialists" we have here on Turkey, Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and turks. Its funny how some of us are called nationalists when we try to look out for our countries' intererests. When they do it they are not nationalists but democrats with the aide of free speech and absolute human rights.
I find it sad that we may not join the EU simply on our own merits. I find it sad that that the EU has made our entry talks a mockery of justice and fair play. I find it sad that some people on these forums get a rush out of anything anti-Turkish.
We are made out to be facists, Stalinist, nazi-ist and whatever other derrogitory ist in the book.
Yet no one (except a few true humans on this forum) wants to take responsibility for their actions or inactions.
Some of you keep bitching and bitching while the train is passing you by. You want a reunited country but you guys have done nothing to move in that direction. Do you people even exercise your right to vote?
When is one man's grip on a country enough? When do you decide enough is enough and put in new leaders? I'm sorry to say that most of you are simply sheep.
Do any of you really know what's happening on the ground in Cyprus, Turkey or Greece? I doubt it. |
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