www.talkcyprus.org

[stavrizatz]

There are a million proposed solutions for the Cyprus problem; so which one is the fairest in your opinion???

The majority of these proposed models for a solution were manufactured overseas. The fact that the Cypriots have not greatly been involved with finding a solution is keeping with the past history where the affairs of Cyprus had for centuries been settled by foreigners over the heads of the people.

Perhaps the most important referendum that Cypriots should sign is first what Cypriots really want and whether if we are satisfied with the status quo.

-Is there a necessity for a solution?
-A solution to what?
–Obviously a type of problem!
-And the problem is?
-Well here is the problem, different people have different views on what the problem is! I say “ the Cyprus problem is that of Turkish invasion and occupation”, another sais “ the Cyprus problem is that Greek Cypriots don’t want to share the government with Turkish Cypriots so it was necessary for Turkey to step in” another might say “ well there was a problem, now fuck the problem once we live in peace and we are probably better off as we are”


Really tell me if solution is not what people want then the fairest solution to the Cyprus problem is ....?

[Dhavlos]

we need to sort out property on both sides, then we can see where to go in my opinion.

Also, make a joint education system, so teaching 'hate' is made harder, or at least, both sides can be told both sides of the story. both languages, joint schools etc. (hard work i know, but it wasnt going to be easy)

the political solution is the last one that needs sorting.

[pg]

I believe the problem is that all Cypriots does not have the ability to leave a free an 'democratic' life as defined by the Council of Europe and the EU - and that goes for both sides although the symptoms are different.

The differences with regards to solution is very much if this should be achieved with one or two states on the island. I believe that in the long term all Cypriots are best served by a single state.

Some of the biggest difficulties are that instead of choosing between 1 and 2 states we seem to go for one and a half.... whether we call it the status quo or one of "the plans".

[stavrizatz]

Dhavlos, there are lots of things that need sorting before a solution and this is the main reason I am not in favour of a single solution proposal. I've said this before, that any attempt for a solution needs to resolve the issues first such as property, settlers, british bases, turkish army, inclusion of Turkish Cypriots in Republic of Cyprus, destruction of cultural identity and even before that we need the appropriate education to heal the past.

However the point of this thread is not that, let's say those are not barrier, then what do Cypriots really want.

So simply continue the sentense: The fairest solution to the Cyprus problem is ...........
...

[s300]

Cyprus is both blessed and cursed by European Human Rights regimes both of the Council of Europe and EU.

We are blessed because we have the ideals and causes of action of Europe but cursed because in reality it takes so much to implement and put these into practice. Look at Loizidou it took..how long almost 20 years.

In theory Cyprus has the opportunity to implement a super modern European Constitution with all the safe guards of Europe both through tthe CoE and EU but reality is a different thing. Cyprus is asked to bear all the disadvantages of being in the EU with none of the human rights advantages

[Curiass]

Partition.

Just make the status quo, de jure. Sorted.

Give the Greeks compensation; give the Turks compensation. Get the EU, Greece and the US to pay the compensation - they supposedly want peace anyway, and are largely responsible for this mess. Perhaps Turkey might contribute, but she has spent billions on the north over the years already.

I know how sad it is to visit the graves of dead parents and all, but they are dead. I mean this by the way, in case I appear callous. But think of the living. The island is more than large enough to function as two nations - it does already - and it works. If, in the distant future, Cypriots desire to join up - and I can't see why they would since they don't share a language, a religion, a social integration or anything else much, other than appearance and a mutual distrust - they could then join up, and get on with the ethnic cleansing. Sorry! Slap my hand!!

Any other 'solution' will only lead to more fighting IMHO, so bite the bullet now, and separate, for everyone's sake.

[RudeGal]

I share Curiass' view that 2 states currently exists, it's working (better in south than north, but that's mainly due to embargoes/crap governance in north) so realest way is to work with this. But I share pg's view that Cypriots are best served by a single state solution (as we are all served by one world!).

And while we have the differences Curiass, I'm no scientist, but I'm sure our DNA are very close (our cultural habits certainly are!) so would work if love, trust & respect there. But that's not going to happen for a while (but it will happen!).

And to stavrizatz, The fairest solution to the Cyprus problem is ........... like beauty, in the eye of the beholder". If we can't even agree on what the problem is, we got zilch chance of finding a common solution let alone a fair one!

Back to para 1 then, with Dhavlos approach for next steps. We got a solution (2 States) whether "fair" or not, so way forward is just solving each outstanding problem starting with education, property and embargoes. This will mean element of "fairness" coming in anyway: refugees compensated &/or return home, the end of key isolations in north mean they get quality life on a par with south, and education binds this new progressive approach, built on respect (even if not always agreeing) that will ... fuel next phase!

[Curiass]

Yes RudeGal,

The Cypriot DNA - including Turkish Cypriots - originates in the Levant, not the west. This is interesting, but irrelevant.
What I can't understand is all this romantic "love, trust and respect" stuff.
I understand the desire, but cannot imagine the reality. It is pure romance, best left in a cheap novel.

There is no love, certainly no trust, and nothing but cheap abuse from both sides - but the Greeks win on this - and often include 'Constantinople' and Asia Minor in their demands along with the whole of the island. Funny, but not really, if you want a happy outcome. I just can't imagine a different happy outcome. I see it there already you see. People on both sides getting on with their lives and not disturbing each other, much. Do the Greeks really want Turkish neighbours so badly? Do the Turks long for a Greek family to move in next door? This is the perpetual contradiction. Happy- bunny friendly oneness, but all in separate villages and with allocated juristictions and proportional job allocations. Puhleeeese - you know it won't (didn't ) work, so why keep pretending?

The real trouble is that there is no international statesman with the sense and the power to impose his will on all these squabbling fools. So the name-calling will continue until 'events' take over. Sadly.

And so to bed...

[Kifeas]

Curiass wrote: Partition.

Just make the status quo, de jure. Sorted.

Give the Greeks compensation; give the Turks compensation. Get the EU, Greece and the US to pay the compensation - they supposedly want peace anyway, and are largely responsible for this mess. Perhaps Turkey might contribute, but she has spent billions on the north over the years already.

I know how sad it is to visit the graves of dead parents and all, but they are dead. I mean this by the way, in case I appear callous. But think of the living. The island is more than large enough to function as two nations - it does already - and it works. If, in the distant future, Cypriots desire to join up - and I can't see why they would since they don't share a language, a religion, a social integration or anything else much, other than appearance and a mutual distrust - they could then join up, and get on with the ethnic cleansing. Sorry! Slap my hand!!

Any other 'solution' will only lead to more fighting IMHO, so bite the bullet now, and separate, for everyone's sake.

Curiass, I have just come across your views and proposals in this forum, and I must admit you sound very convincing. You seem to be right that partition is the most convenient solution, and what is now left is for our Turkish Cypriot friends to choose which 18% of the territory of Cyprus they would wish to keep, as their partitioned state.

I even made to you some 3 sample map proposals, to discuss them among your Turkish Cypriot friends and let us know which one of the 3 you would like to adopt. Please note that all the sample maps are split on a ratio of 18% red (Turkish Cypriot) : 82% blue (Greek Cypriot.)

MapA

MapB

MapC

What do you think Curiass? Which one of the 3 do you prefer the most?

[depurple]

MAP D:

Give the Turkish Cypriot ALL of Pafos and half of Limassol and leave Kyrenia alone!
cheers
PS I will also through in Ayia Napa as an entree!

[erolz]

welcome back Kifeas

[zan]

I think we have struck oil :wink:

[100%cypriot]

good to see your still with us kifeas

[Curiass]

The present demarcation seems to be working just fine.

Just tidy up Verosa and the erratics - back to the Greeks I say - and be done with it. Subdividing once more would mean more disruption and misery. Let it end. The Greeks have the majority of the island, and quite frankly I don't care about percentages. Let the status quo be made de jure. If all the Turkish Cypriots of the diaspora were to return the percentages would alter anyway. And more Turks left than did Greeks.

Good to see that Greeks also see the sense of partition though. I was speaking to Greek friend and he believed a genuine split woud be the cleanest and best result. It looks like the good sense of the principle is established, now it's just the details. Fantastic.

[Kifeas]

erolz wrote: welcome back Kifeas

100%cypriot wrote: good to see your still with us kifeas

Thanks a lot guys! Let's see how long it will last this time.