www.talkcyprus.org

[100%cypriot]

depurple wrote: 100%cypriot said" Dp keep crying from your safety in Australia , your comments and chants do no good for the Cyprus problem"
DP"100% is that what YOU think? OR is that what you HOPE?

TruthSaid " The Turks wouldn't go on killing people willy nilly for no reason"
DP says "better ask the Armenians , Pontians, Greeks, Kurds, Austrians, Bulgarians, and others about Turkey's willy nilly (What ever that means?)"

TruthSaid
" Now, the claim that Turk's killed 1,000,000 people is unsupported"
DP: " Is that what you think or is that what you hope?"
Truth claims "Firstly, I am not a Turk and I take all sides stories before making judgment on anyone"
DP: Says " Mate I have sussed out many on this forum WHO claim to be unbiased and NEARLY ALL have been lemons! Let see about you? BUT I will give you a post of two and YOUR true colours and intentions will show! No Offense! BUT I have seen and heard it ALL in the last 30 years!
Cheers!
PS Welcome to the jungle or should I say forum!
PS again! TS I agree the Greeks are NO BETTER! You can say that AGAIN!
Look what they have done firstly to the poor innocents Cypriots and then look what they did to their OWN people during the 1946 civil WAR!

Another of those famous quotes " WE WILL PUSH THE TURKS INTO THE SEA "
Dp Is That What You Think Or What You Hope ? :wink:

[erolz]

stavrizatz wrote: Now to Erolz, hey I like the way you answered to Polis post, I suggest you change job and become a lawyer for Turkey or Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.

You think Americans out of Iraq is a fair comparison to turks out of Cyprus ? You can see no difference ?

stavrizatz wrote: "Americans out of Iraq" and what if I was an american living in Iraq, wouldn't that be racist?

Look I have not said that he was racist. My problem, my disappointment is that a high profile influential to young Cypriot sportsperson chose to make politics and as Greek Cypriot before just a Cypriot. He could of said nothing, which would have been less divisive. He could have said something about Cyprus that promoted rapprochement. Instead he chose to reinforce and reiterate communal differences and express a partisan view. I find that disappointing and sad. The only positive response to having expressed this disappointment and sadness has been from cypezokyli (thanks for that).

You may think I as a Turkish Cypriot should not care, not be disappointed and saddened that Baghdatis has chosen the route that he has rather than the other options he could have chosen. I think otherwise.

stavrizatz wrote: And if Marcos before was not racist, now with what Turkish Cypriots did to him, he might become racist.

Too stunned to even be able to comment on the above !

[Mete]

stavrizatz wrote:
ATCAnews in this case tried to make a world famous and respected Greek Cypriot figure to be disliked by manipulating what he actually said and lead every one to false assumptions. Aim, 'ALL GREEKS ARE RACIST'. As for the media... it is a very good story to sell, it was front page of the Australian Herald Sun newspaper.

How did ATCAnews manipulate what Marchos said? They simpled put what he said on YouTube. You should blame Marcos for saying something that might mean different things to people. "Turks out of Cyprus" might also mean "Turkish Cypriots out of Cyprus" because many Greek Cypriots refer Turkish Cypriots as simply "Turk". And it's true that if another Greek Cypriot would have said this, it wouldn't be a big deal but I don't see your point. Being famous has a price as I explained before.
stavrizatz wrote:
So you don't disagree with what Marcos said but he shouldn't off done it so publically when people were filming etc?

I disagree with what Marcos said because it might mean different things to different people. As a famous person, he should have been careful about what he said. It's irrelevant whether he said it publically or not.
stavrizatz wrote:
About being careful when you are famous , that is a personal thing other might care more about what the public has to say, others might care less.

True and it's up to Marcos to decide whether he cares or not but at the same time, racism is not tolerated in many western countries and if Marcos meant "Turkish Cypriots out of Cyprus", that's a racist statement, plain and simple. That's why it's been a big deal and that's why we're reacting. Do you understand?
stavrizatz wrote:
About the comment "enosis brought a lot of misery to Cyprus" I wonder mete how can an ideology that was never implemented bring misery!!! Greek of Cyprus wanted Enosis most Turks of Cyprus opposed and many of you wanted Taksim. Taksim was implemented and it did and still brings a lot of misery to Cyprus. Taksim has failed for the last 33years, now can we agree to have Enosis for another 33 years to test whether it will bring misery to Cyprus or not?

Stavros, I met you personally and I know you're not a stupid person so don't play dumb with me please. Obviously I meant "the pursuit of Enosis" brought misery to the island. Isn't it true? Would there be an idea of Taksim if there was no pursuit of Enosis? Would Turkish Cypriots willing give up all their "excessive" rights in the Republic of Cyprus constitution and live in ghettos for years if they felt safe in Cyprus? Obviously pursuit of Enosis started it all in Cyprus and Taksim added on the misery. I'm not defending Taksim or I'm not saying it was good for the people of Cyprus but please don't debate with me about whether the pursuit of Enosis brought misery to the island or not.

[stavrizatz]

erolz wrote: You think Americans out of Iraq is a fair comparison to turks out of Cyprus ? You can see no difference ?

Yes and No, America invaded Iraq and Turkey invaded Cyprus both to fulfil a goal that would benefit their own national interest and it required a great loss of human lifes and many attrocities have happened to achieve that goal. They both used as a pretext humanitairian reason one to save Iraqis from a dectator, the other to save the Turkish minority from the Greek Coup. However Polis was not refering to the similarity of the two cases he was talking about the essense. He could of said 'Israelis out of Palestine' for exmple which is a more similar scenario.

erolz wrote: Look I have not said that he was racist. My problem, my disappointment is that a high profile influential to young Cypriot sportsperson chose to make politics and as Greek Cypriot before just a Cypriot. He could of said nothing, which would have been less divisive. He could have said something about Cyprus that promoted rapprochement. Instead he chose to reinforce and reiterate communal differences and express a partisan view. I find that disappointing and sad. The only positive response to having expressed this disappointment and sadness has been from cypezokyli (thanks for that).

ok you didn't say he was racist but you seemed to be supporting the accusations and he expressed a partisan view. 99,9% of Greek Cypriots have chant that sometime and I am pretty sure cypez also.

You may think I as a Turkish Cypriot should not care, not be disappointed and saddened that Baghdatis has chosen the route that he has rather than the other options he could have chosen. I think otherwise.

stavrizatz wrote: And if Marcos before was not racist, now with what Turkish Cypriots did to him, he might become racist.

Too stunned to even be able to comment on the above ![/quote]

[Khan]

The chants from the HFC website, which have been removed since an investigation into their conduct, can be accesed here in cached form:

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:czpxVemIubIJ:www.hellasfanclub.com/chants.php+HFC+chants&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=uk&client=firefox-a

Some chants of interests:

"POUTANAS GIOI TOURKO KYPRIOI "

"TOURKI MONGOLIIII
TOURKI POUTANAS GIOIII"

"TOURKOS KALOS MONO NEKROS"

Perhaps someone with a knowledge of Greek could translate the others for us. I have a vague idea what the above refer to. With chants like these, do people seriously believe that at least some members of this facist little group were not thinking of Turkish Cypriots when they chant "Turks out of Cyprus"?

[erolz]

stavrizatz wrote: He could of said 'Israelis out of Palestine' for exmple which is a more similar scenario.

For the example to be relevant imo it would need one ethnic community within a nation to be chanting for the removal of another ethnic communities 'motherland' who also had troops there. Which is why the 'Brits out of Northern Ireland' is the best comparison ( before British troops were removed from NI). The whole point of why it is alienating to Turkish Cypriot is that is could apply to troops or it could apply to Turkish Cypriot. Chanting 'Brits out of NI' is similar - it could mean British troops out , but just as easily could mean those NI citizens that considered themselves British (as well as NI) and wanted NI to remain part of the UK. It would definitely been seen by anyone as a partisan chant representing the interests of only one community in NI. If the ONLY turkish presence in Cyprus was troops then the examples given would be valid. It is exactly because turkish troops are not the only turkish presence in Cyprus, but also Turkish Cypriot some of whom consider themselves turks as well as cypriots (as you may well consider yourself greek as well as cypriot) and that other consider as 'turks', that the chant is not comparable to 'americans out of Iraq' or 'Isralies out of palestine'.

stavrizatz wrote: ok you didn't say he was racist but you seemed to be supporting the accusations and he expressed a partisan view. 99,9% of Greek Cypriots have chant that sometime and I am pretty sure cypez also.

If you read what I have said, him expressing racist views has never been my stated problem. As for him expressing a partisan view - of course it is. You prove as much yourself by pointing out 99.9% of Greek Cypriot have chanted it at some time. What % of Turkish Cypriot have ? Clearly it is a partisan position and that he chooses to take such, given the profile and influence over young Cypriots he has, is as I have said sad and disappointing and alienating to Turkish Cypriot in general. Just as it is sad and disappointing that you seem determined to deny these realities.

[Dhavlos]

If you look at the long video khan posted further on, and i dont know if you all have noticed, but he doesnt exactly seem enthused after about a minute of chanting...and his reaction to 'kypros enosis' at the end seemed very unimpressed, ifnot a feeling of awkwardness.

He only seems to be chanting to sort of 'fit in' as said before,and even then, hes hardly as enthused by it as the crowd.

Turkish Cypriots have to realise that turkish troops out of cyprus is not a 'new' slogan. Its a good thirty years old! It has nothing to do with them, and everything to do with the turkish army.

I think marcos bashing has been a bit overboard, but at the same time, he should know better, effectively being the only cypriot known worldwide, and NOT have taken part in hte chanting...but saying that to those people in that situation wouldbe quite difficult i would imagine. Still, hes only 20 something andhas a lot to learn.

[TruthSaid]

stavrizatz wrote: Truthsaid, firstly welcome.
Thank you. Won't be here for long though. Just that this thread took my interest, as many topics regarding racism and opression does around the world. And I respond.

stavrizatz wrote: Secondly I like people you claim to be unbiased. You remind me of GetReal, and with a similar nickname.
Well that's great!

TruthSaid wrote: the actual facts ...about what the Turk's have done when they took over 40% of the island. The Turks wouldn't go on killing people willy nilly for no reason

stavrizatz wrote: We are not saying that Turks didn't have any reason to occupy 37% of Cyprus. Just like the Americans in Iraq, the Turks had very good reasons to invade Cyprus, namely to satisfy their expansionist policiy. Now it is Iraq, next will be Thrace and the Aegean islands ;)
Then why didn't they take over the whole island (which they easily could have)?

truthsaid wrote: Now, the claim that Turk's killed 1,000,000 people is unsupported and the deaths are mostly from armed combatants at the time.

stavrizatz wrote: It is somehow hard to believe that a few million population had almost a million combatants. Keep denying and how is that relevant to Pagdatis?
Did you know millions of Russians and Allies of the West died in their war against Hitler? Were they all civilians now too were they? Please!

As for Marcos? He is a racist... pure and simple. I saw that video and it definately seemed to me like he wanted "Turk's" (both military AND civilians) out of Cyprus. If he was trying to say "Turkish Military out of Cyprus" he could have said this specifically... but he didn't... he was making a broader statement.

truthsaid wrote: The Greeks are no better. You think the Greek's didn't kill people in the wars against the Turk's in the past? Please...gimme a break!

stavrizatz wrote: Did you see anyone here to claim that Greeks didn't kill people in wars against the Turks...not just in wars but in Cyprus there were innocent Turks who got killed by Greek fascist paramilitary groups before 74. Crimes on humanity are not justifiable, please don't argue that 74 is justifiable because you did that and so on.
Well...what would you do if the Greek Cypriots were being systematically pushed away and killed by these so called "fascists" if it were so? Wouldn't you do something about it? Didn't the West do something about Hitler for example? I don't think you would sit there crying all the while when you have the military power to act upon it. That's what Turkey did... to protect their people when no one else would. Again...why did they leave the rest of Cyprus if they indeed wanted to expand their lands? You know they could have taken the whole island? This is an important point you're missing.

Truthsaid wrote: Well, wars are won and lost and if you claim those lands as yours then you better expect the "previous" owners to make the same claim. It's everyone's lands! I hate it when people claim this and that land as theirs.
stavrizatz wrote: If it was everyones land then I would expect to be able to live in that "everyone's land". So don't play with our intelligence, the Turkish forces are there not for everyone, hence occupation hence "ΟΙ ΤΟΥΡΚΟΙ ΕΞΩ ΑΠΟ ΤΗΝ ΚΥΠΡΟ" and that is exactly what Marcos said.
Oh dear... so you think the Turk's were going to save the world did you? If you want to live on those lands with other people (namely Turks) then I suggest you show some respect as these people were living there just as long as you were.

Truthsaid wrote: The stories I was getting from both sides were pretty different but looking at both stories I find the Turkish invasion justifiable. Why? The Turkish Cypriots were being killed and the Greek side were trying to get them all out of the island.

stavrizatz wrote: ...and that is the truth said, sorry men but I find this helarious.
Really? Then why don't you try and say that to the victims families face to face? You really must be ignorant since you're missing the main point here.

Truthsaid wrote: Greeks into a frenzy and started killing many many Turk's

stavrizatz wrote: For you knowledge approx. 500 out of 100000 in a period of 11 years ... what a genocide.
Genocide is still genocide... and if I watched just 10 of my people getting massacred...then I'd want my country to act and stop these murderers as well. So numbers of deaths is the issue for you is it? You sound like a right-winged Zionist dude!

Truthsaid wrote: It took the Turks just 1 day to take over that part of the island. You think they couldn't have taken over the whole island? Of course they could've but NO they left most of it to the Greeks so that those attrocities never occurred again. Big mistake...they should have taken over the whole island. The Turks had every right to take it over and I for one congratulate justice when justice is served against the opressors.

stavrizatz wrote: Now I take off my hat to you
Thanks. Truth needs to be said hey?

Truthsaid wrote: Now this pig of a tennis player is spewing racist remarks again and you people are lapping it up.

stavrizatz wrote: and the icing on the cake "the answer to racism is racism" How was I being racist? I was simply pointing out a single persons racism. Where did I say anything about the Greeks?

stavrizatz wrote: Out of curiocity why do you know so much about Cyprus and Turkey, and why do you care if you are not a Turk?
I know allot of things, but not everything. This only came to light after I read the article and then saw the racist video. Disgusting. I don't need to be a Turk to fight for justice. There are humanitarians out there you know? You should see the work I do for the African's/Chinese/Palestinians/E.Timorese/Chechens and so on. This is a small one compared to other attrocities going on around the world.

Another thing... do you honestly think that if Cyprus was united under one flag, that the Greek's won't try and do the same thing again as in 74? All you need is another racist like Marcos to fuel the fire that is already burning in their bellies. Get over it! Maybe you guys should have voted "yes" to a united Cyprus reforendum when you had the chance a few years ago? But they didn't did they? Why? Makes one wonder.

[stavrizatz]

Mete wrote: True and it's up to Marcos to decide whether he cares or not but at the same time, racism is not tolerated in many western countries and if Marcos meant "Turkish Cypriots out of Cyprus", that's a racist statement, plain and simple. That's why it's been a big deal and that's why we're reacting. Do you understand?

I understand but because he is not racist and he said nothing racist that is what pisses me of that Turkish Cypriots who want two state solution want to make it a big news to promote partition. That has been the strategy of Turkey and Turkish Cypriots to twist the action of Greek Cypriots eg YES vote, now Marcos etc in order to make partition justifiable to the international community. That is very annoying for us who are pooting a lot of effort to have to deal with childish and irrelevant blames to fuel partition. My dissapointment with the Turkish Cypriot community is that it has been doing this for many many years.

Mete wrote: Stavros, I met you personally and I know you're not a stupid person so don't play dumb with me please. Obviously I meant "the pursuit of Enosis" brought misery to the island. Isn't it true? Would there be an idea of Taksim if there was no pursuit of Enosis? Would Turkish Cypriots willing give up all their "excessive" rights in the Republic of Cyprus constitution and live in ghettos for years if they felt safe in Cyprus? Obviously pursuit of Enosis started it all in Cyprus and Taksim added on the misery. I'm not defending Taksim or I'm not saying it was good for the people of Cyprus but please don't debate with me about whether the pursuit of Enosis brought misery to the island or not.

That is great. You see words are more powerful than we often think. You've said "Enosis brought a lot of misery to Cyprus" and ofcourse you meant the pursuit of Enosis but you did not say that in that way. The slogan "Oi Tourkoi ekso apo tin Kypro" means Turkish occupying forces out of Cyprus and you know me personally and all other Greek Cypriots on the forum who have said the same thing. Now if I continue telling you how do If you meant the pursuit of Enosis and I don't believe you, and I continue arguing with you and start calling you names...is it frustrating yes or no? Would you apologise?

[polis]

TruthSaid wrote:

mod note - quote removed as original qurantined.



The Annan plan was effectivele a two state solution.

In any case, is the warning card system still on, because in my opinion this guy has managed to earn a couple of warnings all in one go?

[Evagoras]

truthsaid why you are ashamed to admit that you are a turk?

[erolasmod]

polis wrote: In any case, is the warning card system still on, because in my opinion this guy has managed to earn a couple of warnings all in one go?

You need to use the report a post function if you think a post is in breach of the rules (top right corner of any post). Currently as a mod/admin I can not action a post unless it has been reported. I have actioned the post here as clearly you are reporting it. However in future could you please use the report a post function and not report it in the thread concerned as I do not read every posts made and reporting it in the thread concerned clutters the thread up.

Thanks

[erolz]

stavrizatz wrote: I understand but because he is not racist and he said nothing racist that is what pisses me of that Turkish Cypriots who want two state solution want to make it a big news to promote partition. That has been the strategy of Turkey and Turkish Cypriots to twist the action of Greek Cypriots eg YES vote, now Marcos etc in order to make partition justifiable to the international community. That is very annoying for us who are pooting a lot of effort to have to deal with childish and irrelevant blames to fuel partition. My dissapointment with the Turkish Cypriot community is that it has been doing this for many many years.

Well stav you claim that Turkish Cypriot 'twist' what Greek Cypriot do to promote partition , as if that was something unique to Turkish Cypriot community rather than something both communites do (seek to portray the other side as the 'problem') is itself a 'twisted claim' that fuels partition. The fact is both sides seek to gain world opinion by misportraying the other the Greek Cypriot side as much as the Turkish Cypriot side and for many many years. At the end of the day the fact is Baghdatis did do what he did and Greek Cypriot did vote no to the Annan plan. Those are facts, what you extrapolate from them is opinion.

polis wrote: The Annan plan was effectivele a two state solution.

That is a classic Greek Cypriot viewpoint / opinion, it is not a fact. It is a fact that as far as it was a two state solution it was FAR less of one than the current status quo. It is also a fact that the res of the world, right ot wrong, did not consider it a two state solution.

[repulsewarrior]

Quote: Then why didn't they take over the whole island (which they easily could have)?

...would have started wwIII.

[stavrizatz]

erolz wrote: Well stav you claim that Turkish Cypriot 'twist' what Greek Cypriot do to promote partition , as if that was something unique to Turkish Cypriot community rather than something both communites do

I don't think I claim that only Turkish Cypriots do that. But here we go again every time we will critisice an action the answer is "but you did the same thing that time". If you remember my thread History of remebmering and forgeting I've said that Greek Cypriots do something similar with opposite aim. We play the role of the only victims in Cyprus to get sympathy from the international community with aim the withdrawal of the Turkish troops and the re-unification of Cyprus.

erolz wrote: At the end of the day the fact is Baghdatis did do what he did and Greek Cypriot did vote no to the Annan plan. Those are facts, what you extrapolate from them is opinion.
Exactly, and only Baghdatis can tell us why he said what he said and what he meant and only Greek Cypriots can explain why they voted NO to the Aman Plan and that will be a fact but when a third party adds its own interpretation to facts that would only be an opinion.

erolz wrote: That is a classic Greek Cypriot viewpoint / opinion, it is not a fact.

I agree with you that Anan Plan is not two states but again it is not the classic Greek Cypriot viewpoint. I think the classic Greek viewpoint is de facto partition or de facto re-unification. The reason we say that because it is not the classic case of federal governance but the federation is not just a geographic division but an ethnic one as well.