www.talkcyprus.org

[stavrizatz]

One thing that I don't understand is why Turkish Cypriots don't like osmosis and in case of a solution they would only accept a federal structure solution?

Can someone comment please...

[Crash Test Dummy]

I dont see how water concentration has anything to do with Cyprus :lol:

[Get Real!]

stavrizatz wrote: One thing that I don't understand is why Turkish Cypriots don't like osmosis and in case of a solution they would only accept a federal structure solution?

Can someone comment please...
The answer is really very simple…

At this point in time the Turkish Cypriot community can hide behind Turkey, so as foolish as they are, they think it’s a good idea for a mere 18% minority to make the most absurd of demands.

However, the moment Turkey collapses, and she will within the next decade or two, you’ll see them all catching the first flight out of Cyprus like a swarm on migration and all of a sudden their bravado will be gone! :lol:

Pitiful but true…

[erolz]

Imagine all of Cyprus annexed to Turkey and then ask if you would fear 'osmosis' of Greek Cypriots and their culture into Turkish culture and you might get an idea why Turkish Cypriot fear osmosis. Or ask yourself why Greek Cypriot did not just 'merge' into ottoman culture during the hundreds of years of ottoman rule in Cyprus.

We do not want to be 'absorbed' into a Greek state and Greek culture in our own homeland, any more than you would want to be absorbed into a culture that is not yours in your own homeland.

We want to be Cypriots whilst maintaing our turkish cultural heritage as Cypriots, and to have an effective voice in the decisions that control our lives, including if our nationality is Greek or Cypriot and if our nation state is Cyprus or a part of Greece.

Of course some Greek Cypriot would like us to just become Greeks like them , or leave our homeland to them, or just let them pursue purely Greek agendas with us not daring to oppose such - but that is no more likely than the collapse of Turkey in the next decade or two.

Given the historical attempts of the numericaly dominant Greek Cypriot community to force us to be Greek and our homeland to be annexed to Greece, without us having any effective say in such a fundamental matter that affects out lives as a non Greek yet still Cypriot community and against our communal will, it is not suprising that we today fear 'osmosis' into a Greek dominated state and culture.

Give me a vision of a Cypriot nation and culture that is not just Greek and that includes and respects my non Greek cultural heritage as much as the Greek cultural heritage and I would be by defination already 'aborbed' into it.

Continue to tell me I must allow myself and my community to be absorbed into a purely Greek culture in my own (shared) homeland or leave it, as your community did to mine in the past, and we will continue to have cultural based emnity and conflict.

[Mete]

Erol summarized it pretty well but I'd like to turn the question around and ask our Greek Cypriot friends to explain us why Turkish Cypriots should like osmosis. Tell us why in the world should Turkish Cypriots want to be "absorbed"?

[turkcyp]

I am not against osmosis in general.

It depends what I am osmosing (I dont even know if this is a word, but you get the point) into. If the Republic of Cyprus ceases to be Greek state but becomes a state with no or minimal ethnic and religious character like say USA, then I have no problem.

In a state where there is no or minimal ethnic character then I will feel safe that my heritage is not under threat or my democractic rights are not going to be curbed because of my language or background. But current Republic of Cyprus is way far from that state so hence our dislike for policy of osmosis.

Take care everybody,

[-mikkie2-]

Here we go again! Domination by one or the other community. Fear of ones 'culture' being swamped. Turkish this, Greek that.

We are bloody Cypriots for Gods sake and our culture is essentially the same. Its only because of this bloody division that we are being changed to being more Greek or more Turkish. We are being taught to hate eachother even more as time passes.

We are the same and yet we are being split apart.

The same moronic and pathetic arguments keep coming up in these forums.

Cyprus is in a mess and we deserve what we get. Only yesterday, Talat proclaimed that the population of the north would be 500,000 if the settlers and their families were give 'citizenship'. Think about that and see what 'culture' is going to prevail in Cyprus. It won't be the Cypriot culture, thats for sure.

[erolz]

Just telling us our fear are unfounded or silly or pathetic or moronic does not really get us anywhere does it Mikkie ?

Yes we SHOULD all just be Cypriots, but the FACT is we chose as communites NOT to follow that route, and your community as much or more than mine.

Just denying the cultural differences between Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot and the history of attempts to impose one over and at the expense of the other is easy to do but is it not also moronic and pathetic to do so?

[-mikkie2-]

Erol,

Our 'cultural' differences in the past were minor. The only difference was religion and even then we used to celebrate eachothers festivals together.

Today, because of division, we are forced to swallow the crap that we are being fed.

And yes, it is moronic and pea brained I'm afraid, and you are just as bad as everyone else. All the Cyprus forums are full of it. Blame everyone else apart from yoursleves. There is no way for things to change unless we all change togther. That isn't going to happen so we are only going to get what we deserve.

[repulsewarrior]

Sooner or later the open gates will get people to associate freely. I believe, the competitive forces that we work within, along with global and regional partners, will induce us to seek margins of scale. It will not be hard to convince turcophones and grecophones that in their own self interest, at that point, to stand as this island's dwellers, united.

Osmosis is a concept which is rudely treated, as long as we see ourselves somehow out of a loop which is far bigger than the selfish navel gazing that Cypriots are apt to perform for Nationalistic sentiments, having proven itself to be harmful and archane.

If you want to talk about osmosis, think EU.

[stavrizatz]

erolz wrote: Imagine all of Cyprus annexed to Turkey and then ask if you would fear 'osmosis' of Greek Cypriots and their culture into Turkish culture and you might get an idea why Turkish Cypriot fear osmosis. Or ask yourself why Greek Cypriot did not just 'merge' into ottoman culture during the hundreds of years of ottoman rule in Cyprus.

How is that relevant to osmosis. Cyprus could off been ruled by the Ottomans, the British the Venetians or any other power that past through Cyprus. However that was not the willing choice of Cypriots (at least the majority)

erolz wrote: We do not want to be 'absorbed' into a Greek state and Greek culture in our own homeland, any more than you would want to be absorbed into a culture that is not yours in your own homeland.
Ofcourse you don't want to be absorbed into a Greek state and Greek culture but how do you relate that to osmosis?

erolz wrote: We want to be Cypriots whilst maintaing our turkish cultural heritage as Cypriots, and to have an effective voice in the decisions that control our lives
Exactly and the most effective way to achieve that is through osmosis as all Cypriots will be equal and will be able to freely celebrate their culture, religious practice and ofcourse an effective voice in the governing bodies that represents them.

erolz wrote: Of course some Greek Cypriot would like us to just become Greeks like them , or leave our homeland to them, or just let them pursue purely Greek agendas with us not daring to oppose such - but that is no more likely than the collapse of Turkey in the next decade or two.
Are you replying to what GR wrote or are you answering the question "What is the problem with osmosis", because there will always be those Greeks who will want that, just like there will always be Turks who would like to see the Greek race terminated, no matter whether if we have a federal structure solution, permanent partition or a unitary state.

erolz wrote: Given the historical attempts of the numericaly dominant Greek Cypriot community to force us to be Greek As far as I am concerned there was never an attempt in Cyprus to force Turkish Cypriots to become Greek, please.

erolz wrote: our homeland to be annexed to Greece, without us having any effective say in such a fundamental matter that affects out lives as a non Greek yet still Cypriot community and against our communal will, it is not suprising that we today fear 'osmosis' into a Greek dominated state and culture.

I don't want to get into the whole right of self determination debate but I am not talking about 'Enosis' this time, I am talking about osmosis. Osmosis is not about who will dominate who, osmosis is about having all residents of a place enjoying their civil liberties and their culture diversity in a multicultural state. Rather I will say a system that is all about domination is a bi-communal federal structure where it clearly states that one culture has to dominate on the one half of the island and another culture has to dominate on the other side of the island, and if you don't belong to any of those two culture you will have a choice of who to be dominated by!!!

erolz wrote: Give me a vision of a Cypriot nation and culture that is not just Greek and that includes and respects my non Greek cultural heritage as much as the Greek cultural heritage and I would be by defination already 'aborbed' into it.

Continue to tell me I must allow myself and my community to be absorbed into a purely Greek culture in my own (shared) homeland or leave it, as your community did to mine in the past, and we will continue to have cultural based emnity and conflict.

Here is a vision for you, Osmosis

[erolz]

Stav in short the question is answered by TurkCyp.

Do I mind osmosis.

Osmosis into what ?

Osmosis into a multicultural Cypriot state I do not mind, but where is or ever has been this state ?

Osmosis into a Greek Cypriot state I do mind and this is what most Turkish Cypriot perieve the Republic of Cyprus as it exist today to be.

Some other points

You say there was never an attempt to force Turkish Cypriot to become Greek. All I can say is that if enosis had been acheived by nationality I would be Greek, my passport would be a Greek one, the state to which I would have citizenship would have been Greece. That may not represent 'being' Greek to you but to me it does.

If you can not understand why Turkish Cypriot feared and opposed enosis then clearly you also will not be able to understand why Turkish Cypriot fear and oppose osmosis into a Greek dominated state.

I really do want to try and help you understand this but it requires you 'participate' in this understanding to.

[100%cypriot]

-mikkie2- wrote: Erol,

Our 'cultural' differences in the past were minor. The only difference was religion and even then we used to celebrate eachothers festivals together.

Today, because of division, we are forced to swallow the crap that we are being fed.

And yes, it is moronic and pea brained I'm afraid, and you are just as bad as everyone else. All the Cyprus forums are full of it. Blame everyone else apart from yoursleves. There is no way for things to change unless we all change togther. That isn't going to happen so we are only going to get what we deserve.

Well Done
I dont agree with a lot of thing's that you write , purely because you normally write through Greek Cypriot Eyes , BUT i have to say you are 100% correct in what you wrote and how you wrote it . Bravo
:bow:

[Get Real!]

Thought of the day...

Osmosis...
Osmosis...
Osmosis...
Osmosis...
Osmosis...

:lol:

[repulsewarrior]

cent percent, i can never figure you out; sometimes you come as close as eric d in getting me to loose it, and sometimes, like now, i want to hug you and kiss you (i am not that kind of guy) .

the solution is: osmosis; and it is staring us in the face.

to have it we need two elements, in a solution. osmosis is a key word in TPaps admission that he seeks something other than a unitary state.

...readers, fellow members note: three parts; bicommunal.

at last! the dream of the Zurich agreement will come to pass: communal living, and an identity in which all are united.

but; for the ancient patrimony, to survive, to live, it must have a reconstitution, whole communities must move again. mankind is set to loose a part of the heritage that is a living link to its advent, because the plunder of this age, is not unlike any other.

this brink is without return, like so many of these tremendous losses, they are done in "illegal" acts of ignorance (knowing but not caring), and i hope our little part, as Human Beings, will be to have these relics prosper, at least survive, again. We are stewards to this land who love it, we owe it to ourselves, and in that the blood is red.

osmosis,
doesn't that happen in cells?
bizonal, is it biological?
...something which happens to the body, rather than the soul.
an organic perception includes such identities as hearts, liver, and lungs.
...hmmm? many parts.