www.talkcyprus.org

[stavrizatz]

Landmark Education was found by Werner Hans Erhard who started his seminars in 1971 after he reached his own enlightenment realising that he knew everything and knew nothing and didn't know what he didn't know. He named his seminars Erhard training seminars. The seminars were quite brutal and received bad criticism. Nevertheless it attracted thousands of people every year and Erhard became a multi-millionaire.

After criticism getting stronger by the media, Erhard decided to change the name to Landmark Education in 1984. The new seminars offered and still offer a number of self development courses with introductory ones being the Landmark Forum and the Advance course. Once you complete this one you are able to go to other courses. However even after Erhard continued to have bad publicity and in 1991 after 60 minutes exposed the fraud that this man was in, he fled United States and he sold his business to his employees. Thereafter Landmark continued to grow.

Anyway after going to a number of introductory (promotional) night and pressure by friends, my girlfriend and her father I decided to do the introductory course ‘the forum’. I also did it because I am generally open to new things and new experiences. Even so I was skeptical about it I thought “once I paid the enormous amount $520 (£180) for the weekend seminar with 160 people in the room, I might as well be open and get as much out of it as I can”.

They say landmark start when you sign up, so I started Landmark more than a month ago! The original course goes for a 3 full days and a completion evening on the Tuesday following the seminar. The course starts at 9am and concludes at 10pm everyday with minimal breaks in between with exception a meal break around 6pm. They ask you to avoid using the bathroom, not eat or drink during the seminar with exception water and not use drugs or alcohol for the 5 day span of the course; they ask you to disconnect from your past just like Erhard did. They also say that they do not guarantee you to get the Landmark forum if you don’t do it ‘properly’. Properly includes being on time and completing your assignments.

Friday:
9am sharp the forum starts and you are required to be there at 8:30. Despite the fact that I tried to be on time so as to do properly I arrived there at 9:05. Anyway I was glad I didn’t miss anything. For the first two hours they remind you how great landmark is and what difference it made to people. Additionally they allow the participants to ask questions and they go through the course with you. At 11am they give you a chance to leave the seminar with a full refund if you didn’t go there for yourself. To tell you the truth I was thinking about leaving for a second but then I though, I went through all the troubles being here. After that you are officially part of the seminar.

Anyway the day went by explaining to us the landmark theory about integrity, complains and the connection of the past and the future with the present. Meanwhile every now and then they say how good landmark is and what changes made in peoples lives. After the meal break at 6pm they were meant to tell us about the distinction called racket “a persistent complaint about something”. I had to go to my tennis competition starting at 7pm so missed that bit. When I told them that I am going they wouldn’t allow me go and they were questioning me as if I was a primary school pupil. I told them, it is my course; it is my choice and that by not letting me go they contradict what they have been teaching us all day. I also told them I am a man of integrity and I said that I would play tennis so I couldn’t miss it, besides from the two places I wanted to be at tennis and not landmark and so I went. Also I forgot to tell you that we are given assignments to do in the breaks and at night. For Friday these assignment where
First Break: meet 2 new people,
Second Break: meet another 2 people and tell them why we are doing the course
Homework: to write a letter to our parents or someone in our life that we don’t feel complete with.

Saturday
They spend much of the day telling us about other courses of Landmark such as the forum for kids, teenagers and the advance course. Also on Saturday they speak of the second main distinction which is the strong suit “something that you’ve realised that your good at and you always use to survive in life”. They don’t say it is bad but they suggest that you are a slave of your strong suit. Also on Saturday they give great emphasis on fear and that our whole lives are full of it. I forgot to mention that in landmark the most powerful tool is sharing. People share their stories and are being coached by the seminar leaders. During sharing often people have great breakthroughs and sharing for many is a life altering experience. Assignments for Saturday were:
First Break: Call someone important in our lives and share something with them,
Second Break: someone else
Third Break: Call someone we are scared of
Homework: discover strong suits, share the possibility that we invented for being at landmark, write a letter to someone that you were fake/inauthentic and bonus ‘call 3 people to touch and inspire them and enroll them in Landmark (not sign them up yet).

Sunday
At least half of Sunday went by telling us about more courses such as landmark for businesses, more about the advance course and ofcourse reminded us how great landmark is. In the break not only they told us to enroll more people but also how to enroll more people. Fundamentally they were giving us marketing techniques to get others to come on Tuesday night which is a ‘bring a friend night’. Sunday afternoon they gave us the conclusion “Humans are a meaning making machine and that life is meaningless”.

I got most things out of landmark, and I do believe it is an amazing course with powerful technology to deal with areas of your life that are working as good as you want them to do. What landmark gives for many is a priceless experience but I don’t get why they put a price on that. Not only they put a price but they spend half of their efforts to get us, the participants to enroll others in it if we want to transform the world. My question is: does landmark care about transforming the world or do they care about their own pockets? For me the answer is quite obvious and if my observation is true, then shame on them. Shame to them for taking advantage of the difficulties of life, in order to make millions of dollars and transform their pockets.

To those who want to do Landmark, do it but only if it is your choice; don’t fall in the marketing trap of those who take advantage of it.

For me landmark is the biggest marketing spum I've ever seen

[brother]

Thanks for the heads up on that one, never heard of it before but i will be wary of it in the future. :wink:

[thebrix]

stavrizatz wrote: Landmark Education was found by Werner Hans Erhard who started his seminars in 1971 after he reached his own enlightenment realising that he knew everything and knew nothing and didn't know what he didn't know. He named his seminars Erhard training seminars. The seminars were quite brutal and received bad criticism. Nevertheless it attracted thousands of people every year and Erhard became a multi-millionaire.

Werner Erhard? I thought he was dead!

(And his past record is distinctly murky ...).

[TRUTH]

Landmark is a very controversial group that has nothing to do really with education or business :twisted:
See this link before you let them mess with your mind or your business.
http://www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.html

I noticed the last few days many posts/blogs like this.
This is just a sub-rosa campaign to get an interest going.
It is really a part of LE’s lack of full disclosure.
Pretty much in truth spam :roll:
the worst thing they do is make you THINK that what they did to you is good.
the truth is that it is very bad.

[100%cypriot]

more specialist con men

[stavrizatz]

Wait to hear the worst...
Last night was my completion night at Landmark Education. It was the so called 'bring a friend night'.

Firstly they get a few people who 've done the course to share their experience doing landmark with the guests and what they got out of it. Unfortunately I didn't have a go because I was planning to say what I've said above.

Anyway they ask everyone to do it and those who where allready in the course to do the advance course for $1225 (450 pounds). They said if you are in one of the categories get up and sign up.
1. Those who are excited and want to register now
2. Those who want to do it but have minor obsticles such as money, time and other excuses
3. Those who want to do it but the dates are inconvinient and want to do it in a later stage in the future, forget about the future do it now!
4. Those who want to do it but what holds them back is that they feel like I am making you do it. You don't resist to anyone but yourselfs, just do it.
5. Those who are sceptical about it, see the program advisors (guess what they advise you to do it)
6. Those who don't know what they want and they wonder what they get out of dong it. Don't hesitate. By doing the course you will get what you want 100 times faster. Do it and you will not regret it. If you dicide not to do it you will be miserable for the rest of your life regreting the opportunity to do landmark.

When it finished my friends were still bothering me to do it. I was listening to them giving them hope and being open. Then more staff came around me told me if your passionate about Cyprus and you want to tranform your country you are stupid not to do the advance course. They called me ridiculus, narrow minded, I don't know what I want from life but I have an illusion that I do etc. Than one of the most powerful managers and leaders of the education came up to me saying pretty much all the above with a sophisticated diplomatic way.

Axx, I didn't say much, but seriourly some people have serious issues and what I am worried one of them is my girlfriend. She has done 5 courses and she has spend thousands of dollars.

[brother]

stavrizatz wrote: Wait to hear the worst...
Last night was my completion night at Landmark Education. It was the so called 'bring a friend night'.

Firstly they get a few people who 've done the course to share their experience doing landmark with the guests and what they got out of it. Unfortunately I didn't have a go because I was planning to say what I've said above.

Anyway they ask everyone to do it and those who where allready in the course to do the advance course for $1225 (450 pounds). They said if you are in one of the categories get up and sign up.
1. Those who are excited and want to register now
2. Those who want to do it but have minor obsticles such as money, time and other excuses
3. Those who want to do it but the dates are inconvinient and want to do it in a later stage in the future, forget about the future do it now!
4. Those who want to do it but what holds them back is that they feel like I am making you do it. You don't resist to anyone but yourselfs, just do it.
5. Those who are sceptical about it, see the program advisors (guess what they advise you to do it)
6. Those who don't know what they want and they wonder what they get out of dong it. Don't hesitate. By doing the course you will get what you want 100 times faster. Do it and you will not regret it. If you dicide not to do it you will be miserable for the rest of your life regreting the opportunity to do landmark.

When it finished my friends were still bothering me to do it. I was listening to them giving them hope and being open. Then more staff came around me told me if your passionate about Cyprus and you want to tranform your country you are stupid not to do the advance course. They called me ridiculus, narrow minded, I don't know what I want from life but I have an illusion that I do etc. Than one of the most powerful managers and leaders of the education came up to me saying pretty much all the above with a sophisticated diplomatic way.

Axx, I didn't say much, but seriourly some people have serious issues and what I am worried one of them is my girlfriend. She has done 5 courses and she has spend thousands of dollars.

From what i have read this course is designed to get people who have 'issues' or 'unsatisfied lives' to part with their money for a course's that will efectively make them reliant on unproven teachings that may or may not make a difference in their lives, have i got that right????

[Dream_Merchant]

Considering there was a dutch guy in Limassol that was selling fortune telling for 3000 CYP/session... this is peanuts.

I mean, where do people find such money? Definitely not from hard work. They apprehended the fellow and his two Cypriot associates. What the authorities should have done and they didn't do would be to also send a couple of tax inspectors to the 'duped customers' to check their income tax statements.

[kellogg]

Rick Ross has no qualifications whatsoever to advice and counsel people nor understand what he's talking about. Don't know if he even graduated from High School. This two-time criminal was caught in a jewelry heist and in another crime. To protect his future inheritance he "exposed" a group allegedly working in his grand-mom's nursing home bilking them of their life savings. Rick decided to make this his life's purpose. Now he talks about various movements which he has no knowledge, experience or expertise about. A typical scam artist.


[quote="100%cypriot"]more specialist con men[/quote]

[kellogg]

Never read anything as strange in my life; first you enroll in course with certain criteria of attending, which you know and were informed about. You then go and break that agreement (by skipping sections) and blame the course of not succeeding for you?!

LME is a for-profit business and not a non-profit organization as you seem to think, expect or assume. Did someone inform you otherwise?

[quote="stavrizatz"]Landmark Education was found by Werner Hans Erhard who started his seminars in 1971 after he reached his own enlightenment realising that he knew everything and knew nothing and didn't know what he didn't know. He named his seminars Erhard training seminars. The seminars were quite brutal and received bad criticism. Nevertheless it attracted thousands of people every year and Erhard became a multi-millionaire.

After criticism getting stronger by the media, Erhard decided to change the name to Landmark Education in 1984. ... They also say that they do not guarantee you to get the Landmark forum if you don’t do it ‘properly’. Properly includes being on time and completing your assignments.


... I had to go to my tennis competition starting at 7pm so missed that bit. When I told them that I am going they wouldn’t allow me go and they were questioning me as if I was a primary school pupil.

My question is: does landmark care about transforming the world or do they care about their own pockets? For me the answer is quite obvious and if my observation is true, then shame on them.

[stavrizatz]

Kellogg, sorry but I didn't quite get what you are trying to say.

I wouldn't start a trhead if Landmark was just like other self-development courses, you pay for a seminar, you attend and then you go home and it is all good. Landmark presents itself as an advanced life altering organisation with mission statement by 2020 to transform the world! For them to achieve that they ask the participants to enroll all their friends and they ask participants to assist (volunteer) in Landmark courses, to help them achieve their purpose.

If they stop trying to manipulate people and use their weaknesses to make millions then I wouldn't give a damn about it.

[kellogg]

every company is in business of making a profit; a car dealership, restaurant etc. that is how they are able to expand, grow and make more services/products available. Quote; "help them achieve their purpose"; had you completed the course, you'd get that it means YOU achieve YOUR purpose, not "them" and that those who assist in courses gain value for themselves. They wouldn't do it otherwise.

You are not being manipulated or asked to manipulate your friends. You are invited and asked; you can decline or accept. Up to you. Just like you invite and ask your friends to see a particular movie or eat dinner at some restaurant, you are not trying to manipulate them. But, you may ask for various reasons.

[quote="stavrizatz"]Kellogg, sorry but I didn't quite get what you are trying to say.

I wouldn't start a trhead if Landmark was just like other self-development courses, you pay for a seminar, you attend and then you go home and it is all good. Landmark presents itself as an advanced life altering organisation with mission statement by 2020 to transform the world! For them to achieve that they ask the participants to enroll all their friends and they ask participants to assist (volunteer) in Landmark courses, to help them achieve their purpose.

If they stop trying to manipulate people and use their weaknesses to make millions then I wouldn't give a damn about it.[/quote]

[stavrizatz]

I wrote earlier:
Quote: Anyway they ask everyone to do it and those who where allready in the course to do the advance course for $1225 (450 pounds). They said if you are in one of the categories get up and sign up.
1. Those who are excited and want to register now
2. Those who want to do it but have minor obsticles such as money, time and other excuses
3. Those who want to do it but the dates are inconvinient and want to do it in a later stage in the future, forget about the future do it now!
4. Those who want to do it but what holds them back is that they feel like I am making you do it. You don't resist to anyone but yourselfs, just do it.
5. Those who are sceptical about it, see the program advisors (guess what they advise you to do it)
6. Those who don't know what they want and they wonder what they get out of dong it. Don't hesitate. By doing the course you will get what you want 100 times faster. Do it and you will not regret it. If you dicide not to do it you will be miserable for the rest of your life regreting the opportunity to do landmark.

When it finished my friends were still bothering me to do it. I was listening to them giving them hope and being open. Then more staff came around me told me if your passionate about Cyprus and you want to tranform your country you are stupid not to do the advance course. They called me ridiculus, narrow minded, I don't know what I want from life but I have an illusion that I do etc. Than one of the most powerful managers and leaders of the education came up to me saying pretty much all the above with a sophisticated diplomatic way.

So you call that invitation and not manipulation!

Ok, no worries... I will go to the customers at the restaurants that I am working and tell them bring your friend, you will be stupid if you don't bring them etc. Then try to sell them a wine valued at $1000 and 'bust their balls' to buy it and if they say " I don't have that kind of money" I reply "stop the excuses, you can easily find a $1000, let's go to the ATM to show me your bank balance" But I am not manipulating them to buy my stuff, I am just inviting them!!!

I am not saying landmark is a cult but the similarity of landmark and money making cults (eg scientology) is that they use similar techniques to suck people's wealth.

[kellogg]

If you had a problem with finding and/or spending the money then option #2 would have been the right one for you, or 'decline'-option, which you always have. If you were not making a decision, felt bad about declining or unable to do so etc... then doing the course would have probably worked the best.

Recommending wine for your customers with meal and inviting them to come back with friends is probably not at all a bad idea for your restaurant, probably just not to the way YOU suggest (or your friends may have when asking you to register for the training) but be straight about it and speak/ask directly. They will not feel at all weird or manipulated.

[quote="stavrizatz"]I wrote earlier:
[quote]Anyway they ask everyone to do it and those who where allready in the course to do the advance course for $1225 (450 pounds). They said if you are in one of the categories get up and sign up.
1. Those who are excited and want to register now
2. Those who want to do it but have minor obsticles such as money, time and other excuses
3. Those who want to do it but the dates are inconvinient and want to do it in a later stage in the future, forget about the future do it now!
4. Those who want to do it but what holds them back is that they feel like I am making you do it. You don't resist to anyone but yourselfs, just do it.
5. Those who are sceptical about it, see the program advisors (guess what they advise you to do it)
6. Those who don't know what they want and they wonder what they get out of dong it. Don't hesitate. By doing the course you will get what you want 100 times faster. Do it and you will not regret it. If you dicide not to do it you will be miserable for the rest of your life regreting the opportunity to do landmark.

When it finished my friends were still bothering me to do it. I was listening to them giving them hope and being open. Then more staff came around me told me if your passionate about Cyprus and you want to tranform your country you are stupid not to do the advance course. They called me ridiculus, narrow minded, I don't know what I want from life but I have an illusion that I do etc. Than one of the most powerful managers and leaders of the education came up to me saying pretty much all the above with a sophisticated diplomatic way. [/quote]

So you call that invitation and not manipulation!

Ok, no worries... I will go to the customers at the restaurants that I am working and tell them bring your friend, you will be stupid if you don't bring them etc. Then try to sell them a wine valued at $1000 and 'bust their balls' to buy it and if they say " I don't have that kind of money" I reply "stop the excuses, you can easily find a $1000, let's go to the ATM to show me your bank balance" But I am not manipulating them to buy my stuff, I am just inviting them!!!

I am not saying landmark is a cult but the similarity of landmark and money making cults (eg scientology) is that they use similar techniques to suck people's wealth.[/quote]

[stavrizatz]

Kellogg wrote:
Quote: If you had a problem with finding and/or spending the money then option #2 would have been the right one for you, or 'decline'-option, which you always have.

You don't even know me and yet make the assumption that I always! have taken the decline option.

Kellogg wrote:
Quote: be straight about it and speak/ask directly. They will not feel at all weird or manipulated.
That is exactly my point, landmark does not do straight clear and honest marketing, otherwise they wouldn't spend 50% of the forum brainwashing people that it is "important for the society that everyone does landmark".

Anyway all I am asking people is to be careful of landmark and other similar marketing spams because they could be costly unless again you are wealthy and few thousand dollars are peanuts for you.