www.talkcyprus.org

[will_henley]

Hello, I am a freelance journalist visiting Cyprus next week. I hope to write a story about the ongoing property disputes in north Cyprus. Has this affected you and would you be willing to talk to me?
Thanks ever so much,
Will Henley

[depurple]

Will welcome to the forum:
Great to hear from you:
Let me tell you a little about the property issue:
ALL my family lost there legally owned land in Kyrenia during the agreed UN ceasefire of 1974!
Turkey agreed with the UN ceasefire and then build up it's army and made a second offensive and took what ever it could with the point of a GUN!
But if you ask the Turks they will say we went to restore peace and then we will leave OR they will say we WON it is now OURS!
Unfortunately the Denktash corrupt regime thought of a way to sell this stolen land cheap to many British: Why?
Two reasons!
So that the British will support the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and second EASY money today!
My story is simple:
My grandfather came to Australia from Cyprus in 1922 and worked hard and went back to Cyprus in 1972 and bought land and built a house and then was FORCED to leave: He came back to Australia in 1975 with nothing and died a year latter a broken man! So where is the justice in that:
OK having said this:Lets look at today: The land is being sold to foreigners for peanut because these foreigners can not buy a Holiday home any where else because they have not got the money so they buy stolen Land (Which they all know this) and say so WHAT!
Turkey will protect us!
The main problem with the Greek Cypriot who have lost their legally owned land is that no one has offered proper compensation ONLY peanuts and they see their legal land being manipulated everyday with everyone turning a blind eye!
NOW you may say what about Turkish Cypriot land in the South!
ALL I can say is this:
Most Turkish Cypriot can either sell this land, build on this land OR go back to this land BUT can the Greek Cypriot do this in the south:
So you see IT is NOT a level playing field!
Some Turkish Cypriot have actually given their land to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and claimed compensation from them and also kept their land in the South as well:
Amazing!
Lets look at the world today with many country paying compensation for there wrong doings of the past: Germany, japan and others:
But with Turkey they still have the ottoman mentality and they don't KNOW who the hell runs there country:The Government or the ARMY!
The other sad thing is that Denktash made sure that there where enough settlers and Turkish troops so that the Turkish Cypriot could never raise their heads or question anything:
In other words there are NOW a minority again!
So feel free to ask what ever you want and I am sure you will be surprised with what you see and hear!
Also when you are interview the many British who have minority Stolen Greek Cypriot land LOOK at there attitudes:
Most are very arrogant and most are very Stolen in their ways:
cheers
PS While you are in the North Will look at the poor Churches and look at what the Turks have done to them: Also bring some tissues! Is it SAD!

[brother]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[brother]

Hi will_henley and welcome to the forum :welcome:

[stavrizatz]

Very well said DP

Hi Will, and good luck with your project.

I would like to add a few more comments that I hope you find them helpful.

Facts:
Greek Cypriots lost their land in the North due to devision of the island and the displacement of 200.000 Greek Cypriots.

Pre 74 Greek Cypriots owned approximately 80% of the properties in the North.

The Turkish authorities in the North granted titles of ownership of Greek Cypriots properties to Turkish Cypriots and Turkish settlers.

That is by International law illegal and some Greek Cypriots appealed to the ECHR and won the case. You can look at the precedent case of Titina Loizidou vs Turkey.

These properties are often sold but at a lower price than Turkish owned land.

My opinion:
Foreigners or Turkish people who buy Greek Cypriot properties in the North I don't think are doing anything wrong as long as they accept that they are not the legal owners but they are able to use the properties as long as the status quo is still in place. However what I believe often those buyers do, is that they demand to keep the land "because is theirs, they bought it!", but they ignore that those properties were stolen and by buying such properties is like accepting stolen properties.

In case of a solution, what will happen?

If the buyers accept the reality and that the poor refugees who were refuced to return to their properties for longer than 30 years, for them to enjoy what therefugees left behind. If the acknowledge that the properties are not theirs and hand them back to the legal owners then there are no problems.

If not, then the poor refugees who lived with the dream of return will have to wait even longer becauce some people put their personal benefits first to the painful journey of others.

[victoriasloss]

ADVICE FOR THOSE CONTEMPLATING THE PURCHASE OF A PROPERTY IN NORTHERN CYPRUS, ITS DANGERS AND PITFALLS

For those who have not heard of us, we are Simon and Vikki and we are based in the UK

Our parents purchased a property in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus over 3 years ago and to date have nothing to show for their money, just a very large loan for �150,000 that they (in failing health) are struggling to pay on their meagre pensions, they are not alone, Currently there are over 1000 Britain�s whose losses have between them exceeded �50million even more money is involved the further one goes back. . The criminals who have instigated these crimes of fleecing Britons still freely walk the streets of North Cyprus and to date are still going about their property business'

We are hoping that the groups that who are listed below and have now come together will be able to lead or advise those as to the possible pitfalls and dangers that may occur when purchasing property in Northern Cyprus. The situation today is that we have been subjected to:

Missing funds - mounting to millions of pounds
Laws being ignored by lawyers and builders
Double and triple selling
Properties half built
Properties built with no electric and water
Properties sold off-plan and never built
Properties paid for in full - nothing built
Stage payments paid - no property
Property but no deeds
Property built on Government and disputed land
Misrepresentation
Buyers ignored when complaints made
Living conditions 3rd world and detrimental to health
Buyers living in fear because of threats and intimidation by builders
Life savings drained

The country is truly beautiful as are the people, but there are many unscrupulous characters lurking there waiting to fleece unsuspecting buyers of their hard earned money, these include Developers, Estate Agents and more worryingly even Lawyers

We work closely with "The Home Buyers Pressure Group"

http://www.hbpg-Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus.net

Who have loads of very important information on their site.


Our site is
www.trncpropertywarning.freewebsites.com

Takes a little time to load but well worth the wait


There is also another group, who have been wronged by a Northern Cyprus Company which has amongst its directors a British Man who skipped British bail 12 years ago and is still currently wanted by the British authorities, but as there is no extradition treaty with North Cyprus this man freely roams the streets.


agabuyersactiongroup@yahoo.co.uk

All we ask for is true stories (that can be backed with documentary evidence if required) good or bad, also nominations for "Good and Bad Guys" again with evidence should it be needed. And if we can help 1 person

NOT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES AS OTHERS

We will have succeeded


Letter from the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus PM Insulting foreign property purchasers:
The Rambler

Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Prime Minister Mr Ferdi Sabit Soyer Insults Foreign Buyers


As a member of the HBPG, I take great exception to the statement made by Mr Soyer, (as reported in Cyprus Today 18 May 2007, pg 14 under the heading Unfolding PR Disaster) that the programs on British TV highlighting the problems suffered by homebuyers in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus are Greek Cypriot inspired and are therefore somehow, not true.


Some of the people whose plights were featured on these TV programs are members of the HBPG and are staunch supporters of the fight for the rights of the Turkish Cypriot people and State to be recognised, they just ran out of avenues to be heard by the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus authorities, so took matters into their own hands. Indeed, most of those who have chosen to settle here, including the members of the HBPG have always been active in this respect. The HBPG has tried valiantly to encourage its members to lobby the government for change instead of taking direct action, but now they too feel the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus authorities are just not listening.


The Government is fully aware what is happening to innocent people in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and indeed caused the problem by not implementing their own laws. The Government was warned many times that there was a time bomb ticking away within the growing number of cheated foreign homebuyers and chose to drag its feet and this includes Mr Soyer as he was told personally. What did the authorities think would happen if they did not take action?


Now Mr Soyer is trying to muddy the water by suggesting these programs were Greek Cypriot inspired, what�s next Mr Soyer are you going to accuse the HBPG of being Greek Cypriot agents? Your assertion/assumption is an insult.


I note with a smile on my face and anger in my heart, that the building sector has had a meeting, which Mr Soyer and Mr Murat attended where they talked about how much money (our money) the building industry had contributed to the economy. From The Observer 18-24 May 2007 � The economic contribution of the building sector to the economy over the three year period from 2003 to 2006 was US$127 million. The PM pointed out that the building sector contributes to many other sectors as well primarily the production and energy sectors, which generates a further US$160 million.


Total US$287million over 3 years that�s approx GB�143.5 million.


Now lets look at what us loyal foreigners have contributed to the economy over the same period.


There are approximately some 10,000 foreigners (government figures) who have settled here, let us assume they bring in annual revenue (from UK pensions) of �10,000 a year. So, 10,000 x 10,000 = 100,000,000 x 3 years = �300,000,000. Now lets add on the other contributions we have made to the economy on one of expenses� houses at an average of �80,000 (80,000 x 10,000 = �800,000,000. Cars, at an average price of �10,000 that�s �100,000,000


Total over three years = �300,000,000 + �800,000,000 + �100,000,000 = �1,200,000,000


These figures do not include the contributions we make by buying furniture, paying solicitors or depositing our saving into the local banks.


So, yes the construction industry is an important economic contributor, but pales into insignificance when compared to the contributions being made by a small number of foreigners who then have the temerity to be asked to be treated as equals and be treated fairly.


It is a shame that the government does not have the foresight shown by Cafer Gurcafer that the problems evident in the declining sector were due, in part, by not listening earlier to the buyers and allowing the rogue element to overshadow what should be a booming industry.


The only thing that does not quite gel here is the figures. Why do our simple figures differ from those recorded against this sector? Is it because � as we have told you Mr Soyer � that many of us paid our stage payments into bank accounts in the UK or mainland Turkey, provided to us by the builders, estate agents or solicitors?


The next question which Turkish Cypriots should be asking is, where has all this money gone, not into the Hospitals not into the schools so where, answer please Mr Soyer?


I had recent cause to write about the trashing of our Human Rights, well here�s one for you, the Turkish Cypriots have the right to demonstrate in London for their Human Rights and they have just demonstrated in Brussels for the same thing - which I fully support and commend them for. However in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus the Government have said we foreigners (as non citizens although we live in this country and are impacted by its non enforcement of laws) cannot demonstrate in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus as it is against the law to do so. Why is this, the one law they are going to enforce?


Mr Soyer if you think by sending the police to a HBPG meeting (which I saw as intimidation), and the threat of police action if we do demonstrate, is going to put us off stating the facts of the matter � you are mistaken. What are you going to do attack us? Imprison us? All I can say is bring it on, after all the protesters are aged between 40 to 70 years of age and are telling the truth, that�s going to look good in the world press!


For some of us, that will be the catalyst to take the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus to the Court of Human Rights.


On another theme entirely - since the HBPG started, I have watched one woman work tirelessly for others, sometimes she has had success sometime she is not so lucky. However she keeps soldering on, not once have I heard her try and get her own considerable problems sorted.

Sadly, I know this woman has been threatened by some and has been abused by others mainly the �I�m alright jack� expats brigade, this brave woman is Marion Stokes. Don�t worry Marion, many of us expats are standing right beside you come what may.

[Lewis Gerolemou]

Victoriasloss, if the Brits who have lost out in north Cyprus had any scruples they would not have bought property there in the first place. Most developers in north Cyprus are selling Greek Cypriot land, they have no right to do this. Perhaps they should have taken the advice of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, its there for all to see.

Caveat emptor

Extract from Foreign and Commonwealth Office website:-

Before purchasing property anywhere in Cyprus you are strongly advised to seek qualified legal advice from a source that is independent from the seller.

Property issues are closely linked to the political situation. There are a number of potential practical, financial and legal implications, particularly for those considering buying property in the north. These relate to the non-recognition of the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", the suspension of EU law in northern Cyprus, the possible consequences for property of a future settlement, and the many thousands of claims to ownership from people displaced in 1974. There is also a risk that, as a result of the disputed ownership of many of the properties, purchasers could face legal proceedings in the courts of the Republic of Cyprus, as well as attempts to enforce judgments from these courts elsewhere in the EU, including the UK.

Separately, potential purchasers should also ensure that they are fully aware of the specific rules imposed by the administration on foreigners purchasing property in the north including the requirement to obtain consent to the transfer of property.

[-mikkie2-]

Quote: NOT TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKES AS OTHERS

victoriasloss

I am afraid you will find very little sympathy for the plight of your parents.

Your parents decided to buy land in the north of Cyprus which is disputed. Most of the land in the north is LEGALLY owned by Greek Cypriot refugees that were forcibly removed from their homes by the Turkish Army. The land your parents bought was most probably STOLEN land. That is why it was cheap and that is why your parents have had these problems. The people selling such land are making a quick buck at the expense of foreign buyers and the refugees because they know that legally the land is owned by others.

You are now part of the Cyprus Problem and now you know what it has been like for tens of thousands of refugees who for 33 years have been fighting for what is theirs and for their rights.

[depurple]

victoriasloss
My heart feels for you BUT what can I say:
We were forced by the mighty Turkish Army to flee OR be murdered!
Turkey got away with it in Constantinople, Smyrni, with the Kurds and with the Armenian and now with Cyprus:
Unfortunately most in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus live for TODAY and show NO REMORSE for the original owners LET alone for the people who have been lured into Smyrna that there is a Paradise 1000 miles form Britain!
What do you expect if Dentash is one of the corrupt bastards who runs the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus with the Turkish Army: What do you except when Dentash has friends like Nadil and Gary Robb?

You should also blame SOME corrupt British government officials who are friends with Denktash and his mates who support the corrupt Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and get free holidays and kick backs:

Now all my Turkish Cypriot Friends who is paying these people to complain about what as happened to them?
Where is the mighty Cherie Blair?
Marion Stokes hang in their sweat-heart:
Don't let the Mafia of the North ROB you of your human rights!
Go talk to Levent Sadar of the Afrika paper or better still go contact Marios Mastakis who represents the EU and talk to him: I am sure he will do something!
As for the rest of the victims in the North JUST hope and pray that one day Turkey will become civilized and a part of a TRUE EU family instead of the corrupt Mafia it really is:
Take care;
cheers
PS Feel free to talk to me anytime and hope to catch you one day at my uncles HOTEL the DOME in Kyrenia for a drink!
That is if the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus every decide to give that back to the legally owner!

[stavrizatz]

Victoriasloss, on one hand I feel sorry for you but on the other hand you were looking for trouble! I know it sounds a bit harsh, but sorry... you buy land in a corrupted territory which is not internationally recognised and you call for your human rights! What human rights? Millions of people in the world are suffering due to conflict, millions went through the most horrific atrocities and you demand your human rights that after all are purely in materialistic terms, money.

Every time you talk about HBPG, please think also of Cypriots not Greek ot Turkish Cypriots but Cypriots as a whole who suffered from the devision of their country since 74.

[cypezokyli]

some of these home byers pressure group were in CF some time ago. they showed no respect to Greek Cypriot refuggees some of them going as far as laughing about it.

sorry, but no sympathy from me.

you knew all along that it was a gumble. it was cheap bc it was illegal. you took the gumble hoping that the cyppro will not be solved. in a sick way, you are now in trouble.

[100%cypriot]

dep have you been at the Wacky Backy again?

[100%cypriot]

victoriasloss wrote: ADVICE FOR THOSE CONTEMPLATING THE PURCHASE OF A PROPERTY IN NORTHERN CYPRUS, ITS DANGERS AND PITFALLS

For those who have not heard of us, we are Simon and Vikki and we are based in the UK

Our parents purchased a property in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus over 3 years ago and to date have nothing to show for their money, just a very large loan for �150,000 that they (in failing health) are struggling to pay on their meagre pensions, they are not alone, Currently there are over 1000 Britain�s whose losses have between them exceeded �50million even more money is involved the further one goes back. . The criminals who have instigated these crimes of fleecing Britons still freely walk the streets of North Cyprus and to date are still going about their property business' .................

mod note: quote shortened

..................
For some of us, that will be the catalyst to take the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus to the Court of Human Rights.


On another theme entirely - since the HBPG started, I have watched one woman work tirelessly for others, sometimes she has had success sometime she is not so lucky. However she keeps soldering on, not once have I heard her try and get her own considerable problems sorted.

Sadly, I know this woman has been threatened by some and has been abused by others mainly the �I�m alright jack� expats brigade, this brave woman is Marion Stokes. Don�t worry Marion, many of us expats are standing right beside you come what may.

I wonder what the Nationality of this person is ?

Or has this been Posted by someone from one of the Militant Nationalistic Web sites ? This smells of Propaganda to me :twisted:

[Kifeas]

victoriasloss wrote:

For some of us, that will be the catalyst to take the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus to the Court of Human Rights.



:lol:

[Kifeas]

100%cypriot wrote:

I wonder what the Nationality of this person is ?

Or has this been Posted by someone from one of the Militant Nationalistic Web sites ? This smells of Propaganda to me :twisted:

I am sure they are agents of the evil Greek Cypriots crooks that do not mean to accept that according to the ottoman laws, the properties in the north do not belong to them any more, becasue they "lost the war!"

:lol: