www.talkcyprus.org

[bubblesqueak]

Hi, Hopefully I have placed this question in the right section!!! Please can someone help!

Basically my mums family live in Southern Cyprus and to cut a long story short there is a piece of land which was left to my mother and her brothers & sisters. One of the brothers decided to build his daughter a house on 'his section'. All of the other brothers & sisters also sold their 'sections' to the daughter... Hence she now has a mansion and a stack of land.

The last piece of land remaining is my mothers (who resides in the UK) and she will not sell to the daughter who has asked on many occasions. About 10 years ago the daughter put a wall around her entire estate, including my mothers part, so in effect my mothers land is now part of her estate.

Although my mother has the deeds to this piece of land are there laws in Southern Cyprus whereby eventually the daughter can claims rights to the land. It's basically part of her garden now and has olive trees on it. My mother lives in the UK and goes to Cyprus yearly for holidays and has no intentions whatsoever of selling.

Obviously English Law has squatters rights etc.... And I noticed that Greek Law you can declare the land your own after twenty years... I cannot find anywhere the rights on land ownership etc.... for Southern Cyprus.

Any help would be much appreciated.

[cypezokyli]

cypriots and family land dividing....even worse than the cyppro itself :lol:

the land registry in cyprus works pretty well. if your mother has deeds, then i dont believe that theres a way of loosing the land.

i am not sure about the law you mention. most probably it works under certain conditions. i would assume that this law holds for goverment land and not private one.

contact a lawer. its always the best way out :wink:

[bubblesqueak]

Thank you for your reply... I found this information in relation to Greece

http://hellenicnews.com/readnews.html?newsid=2641&lang=US

I want the exact same information but relating to Southern Cyprus.

Looking on the internet about land rights, etc... in Southern Cyprus it blinds me with the Cyprus Problems....

I think a lawyer is the best way. My mum seems to think her so called lovely family would never take land from her, etc.... I have told her that her so called lovely family 'will' take land from her. It's not silly money, we are talking about £100K.

[repulsewarrior]

first of all bubbkesqueak, welcome to our forum.

it is possible for the sister's children to enjoy her home as their own, by the custom of most loving families in Cyprus; as she shares in the land, she shares in the children's wellbeing. If there is a use for the land that is better, for the well being of this family, then the wall surrounding the property should be torn down immediately, without hesitation. I believe. Ownership is not a question, at least it should not be. Family relations are most important, and if not, then a monetary value can be found as a means of exchange.

[depurple]

Welcome to the Forum bubbkesqueak,
AND Welcome to another injustice by Greek Cypriot to Greek Cypriot!
I hear this all the time!
Only a few days ago my cousin told me that his Uncle , his father brother (He is related to me by his mother and my father) SOLD their land in the Nth (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus) to builders ONLY with a photocopy of the land!
Amazing!
His father has the original titles: His Uncle said the originals where lost in the war and only the photocopies remain!
So good luck BUT I think if you can get a good lawyer or a good friend BECAUSE remember if you live in England OR Australia YOU are a XENOS to most Greek Cypriot!
Even you own relatives!
AND if you have a few BOB like my father it is worse because they SAY you are loaded AND you want the land in Cyprus as well!
BUT my father BOUGHT his land with Australian Money during 1969 & 1972 and IT was not a Brika (Dowry) or a freebie from some relative!
cheers!
PS bubbkesqueak IF all this fails GO to the Newspapers OR the EU courts!
PS again! This daughter or what ever she is must have some say in the family?
Who is she?
Related to Clerides or someone?

[Kifeas]

bubblesqueak wrote: Hi, Hopefully I have placed this question in the right section!!! Please can someone help!

Basically my mums family live in Southern Cyprus and to cut a long story short there is a piece of land which was left to my mother and her brothers & sisters. One of the brothers decided to build his daughter a house on 'his section'. All of the other brothers & sisters also sold their 'sections' to the daughter... Hence she now has a mansion and a stack of land.

The last piece of land remaining is my mothers (who resides in the UK) and she will not sell to the daughter who has asked on many occasions. About 10 years ago the daughter put a wall around her entire estate, including my mothers part, so in effect my mothers land is now part of her estate.

Although my mother has the deeds to this piece of land are there laws in Southern Cyprus whereby eventually the daughter can claims rights to the land. It's basically part of her garden now and has olive trees on it. My mother lives in the UK and goes to Cyprus yearly for holidays and has no intentions whatsoever of selling.

Obviously English Law has squatters rights etc.... And I noticed that Greek Law you can declare the land your own after twenty years... I cannot find anywhere the rights on land ownership etc.... for Southern Cyprus.

Any help would be much appreciated.

No, there is no such a law that may allow the daughter to claim your mother's land, as long as your mother has the title deeds of the piece of land in question. However, you have to explain what kind of title deed your mother has. If it is a case in which the entire walled field has one tittle deed and your mother has a share of it, i.e. 1/4 or 1/5 share, and the remaining 3/4 or 4/5 of shares now belong to the daughter, the case becomes more complicated, even though if this was the case the daughter wouldn't have been allowed to built anything without your mother's signature. If your mother has a separate piece of land (separate title deed for a designated area within the fenced field) then the daughter is not allowed to put a wall around it and it is a clear case of trespassing.

[bubblesqueak]

Kifeas wrote: bubblesqueak wrote: Hi, Hopefully I have placed this question in the right section!!! Please can someone help!

Basically my mums family live in Southern Cyprus and to cut a long story short there is a piece of land which was left to my mother and her brothers & sisters. One of the brothers decided to build his daughter a house on 'his section'. All of the other brothers & sisters also sold their 'sections' to the daughter... Hence she now has a mansion and a stack of land.

The last piece of land remaining is my mothers (who resides in the UK) and she will not sell to the daughter who has asked on many occasions. About 10 years ago the daughter put a wall around her entire estate, including my mothers part, so in effect my mothers land is now part of her estate.

Although my mother has the deeds to this piece of land are there laws in Southern Cyprus whereby eventually the daughter can claims rights to the land. It's basically part of her garden now and has olive trees on it. My mother lives in the UK and goes to Cyprus yearly for holidays and has no intentions whatsoever of selling.

Obviously English Law has squatters rights etc.... And I noticed that Greek Law you can declare the land your own after twenty years... I cannot find anywhere the rights on land ownership etc.... for Southern Cyprus.

Any help would be much appreciated.

No, there is no such a law that may allow the daughter to claim your mother's land, as long as your mother has the title deeds of the piece of land in question. However, you have to explain what kind of title deed your mother has. If it is a case in which the entire walled field has one tittle deed and your mother has a share of it, i.e. 1/4 or 1/5 share, and the remaining 3/4 or 4/5 of shares now belong to the daughter, the case becomes more complicated, even though if this was the case the daughter wouldn't have been allowed to built anything without your mother's signature. If your mother has a separate piece of land (separate title deed for a designated area within the fenced field) then the daughter is not allowed to put a wall around it and it is a clear case of trespassing.

Thanks for the info. Upon checking it seems that the entire walled field has one title deed. It was split between 5 of them about 15 years ago. My mums brother built a house for his daughter and chose what he considered to be the 'best' section (location etc....) he then ended up building on more land that he should have) which caused massive family arguments years ago with the other Aunts & Uncles involved. The other Aunts & Uncles ended up selling to the daughter over the years and my mother has the last piece.

Basically one part is the main house, 2nd part is the garden, 3rd part is the vegetable plot, 4 part is the garages and the final part (which is my mothers) leads on from the garden and has olive trees in it.

I asked my mother today why she allowed them to put the wall around the entire land (including hers) and she said that she allowed it as it would be safe from 'trespassers'. :roll: Although I think she never signed any documents to agree to the wall. There is also a gate within the wall on my mothers part, I asked her today if she has keys to those gates to which she replied "no, the daughter has them". My mother also said she never paid any money towards the wall as the daughter told her that she did not want money.

My mother is so laid back... tomorrow... tomorrow and just can't see what is happening right under her nose. She trusts these family members 100% and they are the most untrustworthy people. Upon giving her a stern speaking to today Mum has partly agreed to putting a wall right across the garden separating her part from theirs, no doubt there will be uproar as they seem to think it is theirs and have taken over.

Ironically even if I sent surveyors etc... to check mums land for measurements etc.... they can't even get access to it freely as the daughter has walled it off and at there are also locked gates.

I imagine the best thing would be to contact a Cypriot Solicitor here and seek some advice. Another massive problem is the daughter & her husband are in the building business and it is a small village... hence them knowing everyone in the trade... so even if we arranged for independant builders to go in and build a wall, or surveyors etc.... it's quite probable the daughter & her husband will be 'friendly' with them.

Someone has advised me to contact the land registry department first and do a search & also speak with a Solicitor. I'm hoping to be able to speak to an English Greek here as I am unable to speak enough Greek to be able to communicate proplerly with a Solicitor in Cyprus.

Sorry to ramble on but I'm trying to give a clearer picture of the situation.

[bubblesqueak]

repulsewarrior wrote: first of all bubbkesqueak, welcome to our forum.

it is possible for the sister's children to enjoy her home as their own, by the custom of most loving families in Cyprus; as she shares in the land, she shares in the children's wellbeing. If there is a use for the land that is better, for the well being of this family, then the wall surrounding the property should be torn down immediately, without hesitation. I believe. Ownership is not a question, at least it should not be. Family relations are most important, and if not, then a monetary value can be found as a means of exchange.

Thank you for the welcome! This family is not loving! The daughter & her husband do not have children and are intent on greed, flash cars, etc... they see themselves as the Posh & Becks of the village! I have tried to get my mum to sell the land to them over & over but she refuses.. She claims that she used to collect the olives from there with her father and that she will not sell. But it seems that they are well aware that she will never sell and have given up asking her... hence walling it all off... which makes me wonder what the hell they are up to. Hence my original question about squatters rights, etc.....

My mum lives in the UK & goes to Cyprus once a year for a few weeks. I wondered if they stated that they maintained the land, etc.... walled it to protect it.... then they could lay claim to it.

[Alexios]

Bubblesqeak,
From what you have described so far,i gather that the piece of land was an undivided share property.This means that all 5 heirs inherited the same plot of land of which each heir is entitled 1/5.I am certain that on your mother's title deed you ll find all the details of the plot, and your mother's share as 1/5.This sort of title deed is a problematic one, as it does not specify which 1/5 belongs to whom.What i guess, is that the doughter started construction on 1/5 of the land which she considered as her own, through some kind of verbal understanding that heirs usually have as to which part belongs to whom.It is also possible that an agreement was sighned and deposited at the DLO specifying which fifth belongs to each heir, as strictly speaking this is the only way she could be given the necessary building permit to commence construction. You describe your mother's part so my guess is that such an agreement actually exists.
The only way that someone could claim a piece of land as his own is to obtain a certificate from the village muhtar that he has been caltivating the plot for 30 years BUT ONLY in the event that the plot is not registered in anybody's name, which is not the case here.I don't see any danger in your mother losing her share but it is better to initiate the proceedure now in order to issue a separate title deed on your mother's share. You should not really require the services of a lawyer unless something else is involved in the whole case.My advise would be for your mother to give you a General Power of Attorney to manage her affairs in Cyprus so that you can deal with it personally upon your next visit.Such Powers of Attorney can be issued at the Cyprus High Commission in London.

[bubblesqueak]

Polis..... Pathetic. I said Southern Cyprus as er.... in case you had not noticed there is such a place. :roll: What is 'ignorant' about that? I suggest you google Southern Cyprus in order to eduate yourself.

[100%cypriot]

bubblesqueak wrote: Polis..... Pathetic. I said Southern Cyprus as er.... in case you had not noticed there is such a place. :roll: What is 'ignorant' about that? I suggest you google Southern Cyprus in order to eduate yourself.

Don't take any notice of what Polis said , i don't think he or she meant it in that way , if he or she did then they are very sad , every country has a north and south just like the east and west , so i think that person needs to educate themselves a bit more :wink:

[polis]

bubblesqueak wrote: Polis..... Pathetic. I said Southern Cyprus as er.... in case you had not noticed there is such a place. :roll: What is 'ignorant' about that? I suggest you google Southern Cyprus in order to eduate yourself.

...

[polis]

bubblesqueak wrote: Polis..... Pathetic. I said Southern Cyprus as er.... in case you had not noticed there is such a place. :roll: What is 'ignorant' about that? I suggest you google Southern Cyprus in order to eduate yourself.

... oops... doube posting.

[Kifeas]

bubblesqueak wrote: Polis..... Pathetic. I said Southern Cyprus as er.... in case you had not noticed there is such a place. :roll: What is 'ignorant' about that? I suggest you google Southern Cyprus in order to eduate yourself.

For the sake of accuracy, both of you are wrong! The term "Southern Cyprus" means nothing, neither a political nor a geographical connotation! To have a geographical meaning, it should have been "southern Cyprus" with a lower case "s." To have a political meaning, it should have been "South Cyprus," instead of "Southern!"

[Crash Test Dummy]

sorry to kind of hijack.

but how would I go about mortgaging/selling land in the turkish occupied part of Cyprus?

I have the deeds and last time anybody checked (few months ago) nothing has been built on the land