www.talkcyprus.org

[Bananiot]

I read an article by Pavlos Dinglis the other day and I would like to share with forum members his thoughts. Pavlos comes from AKEL and he was a member of the leadership until the late 80's. He was the General Secretary of PEO, the biggest trade union in Cyprus. He challenged Christofias for the leadership of AKEL when Papaioannou died and of course that was his downfall.

Pavlos writes:

1. By 1962 Makarios had decided for the modification of the Constitution. Greece was dead against it and Kennedy also told him not to go ahead. Ismet Inonu warned Makarios not even to think about it. AKEL suggested to Makarios to unilaterally declare void the guarantor agreement, before changing the Constitution.

2. Makarios totally ignored everyone and his 13 points released a storm and even today we get what we asked for. At the Security Council, during early 1964, Spyros Kyprianou (Foreign Secretary) told members that no one was legalised to intervene in the internal affairs of a sovereign state.

3. On April 4 1964, Makarios denounced the alliance agreement. Turkey and Britain ignored him. A political issue could not be tackled with legalistic mumble.

4. The notorious Akritas Plan laid the political and material foundation for the path to change the Constitution. Papadopoulos was the main author of the Plan and the vice leader of the Organisation. Yiorgatzis was the leader. The target was Enosis but this was concealed under the veil of self determination. According to the plan, the modifications were to be enacted unilaterally since the Turkish side would never agree to them. The imposition of the changes would be achieved with the help of “the state forces” or even “friendly military forces”. These so called friendly military forces comprised of 1800 armed men belonging to the paramilitary groups of Sampson, Yiorgatzis and Lissarides.

5. The Plan itself gives a striking answer to those that kid themselves that it was just a proposition. Makarios had decided to impose the Plan unilaterally and dynamically. Something that shows that this was the case is the refusal of Makarios in 1965 to accept a proposal by the Turkish Cypriot MP’s to return to their seats, provided that the Zurich agreements would be reiterated. Klerides, who was the President of the House at the time, wrote in a statement that separate majorities were done with and the signature of the Vice President was no longer required and the Turkish Cypriot MP’s had no legal status. Thus, the position of the Vice President was, for all intense and purposes, abolished. In this way we lost a golden opportunity to return to normalcy, changing in the meantime the Constitution unilaterally, according to the Akritas Plan.

6. Lesson to be learnt:

• International agreements cannot be thrown into the dustbin, especially unilaterally. This applies especially for small countries like Cyprus. We have no sense of our size, it seems.
• The Cyprus issue is a political issue and not a legal one.
• Compromises are an inseparable part of policies
• The path of recrimination and collision is a terrible one to take. We need to take the path of reconciliation and debate.

How much wiser are we from our tragic past? The way Papadopoulos has handled the issue for the last 4 years has shown that the mentality of the 60’s is on the forefront. The path to disaster which started by Makarios is still followed. We are led towards the upgrading of the “state”, towards the two states, without inverted commas. Can we hold on to the last weed on the edge of the cliff?

The downing of the wall was a positive step. Hopefully it was not a result of outside pressure not a pre election gimmick. Talat made unacceptable arguments regarding the opening of Ledra and Limnitis. The Greek Cypriot side must regain the initiative. We need to undertake bold initiatives. No more preparations. It’s time for deeds. Papadopoulos should accept the invitation to meet Talat. No more legalistic and formalistic approaches. The road to reunification must open!

[brother]

Good post Bananiot, do you mind if i use it elsewhere too.

[Get Real!]

Quote: 6. Lesson to be learnt:

• International agreements cannot be thrown into the dustbin, especially unilaterally. This applies especially for small countries like Cyprus. We have no sense of our size, it seems.
Good idea Bananiot... you can start here:

http://www.kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/UNresolutions-list.html

[Get Real!]

brother wrote: Good post Bananiot, do you mind if i use it elsewhere too.

Looks like your board could use a new member... what do you say?

[GRIENlord]

Hello everybody! I am new to the site www.talkcyprus.org
Could anyone, please, advise if there is a lot of
spam and unscrupulous advertising. Can I trust
all this information, which is present at this forum?
Sorry for stupid questions, I just really want know which
information I should trust or even pay attention.

[Bananiot]

No problem brother, go ahead.

Get Real, you did not get it, did you? We were the first to break the international agreements, for whetever this is worth. However, probably you did get it but you did not contest it. This then is an improvement.

[100%cypriot]

Good piece Bananiot

[boomerang]

GRIENlord wrote: Hello everybody! I am new to the site www.talkcyprus.org
Could anyone, please, advise if there is a lot of
spam and unscrupulous advertising. Can I trust
all this information, which is present at this forum?
Sorry for stupid questions, I just really want know which
information I should trust or even pay attention.

hi GRIENlord I was wondering what you meant but the stupid questions but then I noticed that you are from the US and that sort of explain everything :lol:

[100%cypriot]

boomerang wrote: GRIENlord wrote: Hello everybody! I am new to the site www.talkcyprus.org
Could anyone, please, advise if there is a lot of
spam and unscrupulous advertising. Can I trust
all this information, which is present at this forum?
Sorry for stupid questions, I just really want know which
information I should trust or even pay attention.

hi GRIENlord I was wondering what you meant but the stupid questions but then I noticed that you are from the US and that sort of explain everything :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Xenos 2Fan]

boomerang wrote: GRIENlord wrote: Hello everybody! I am new to the site www.talkcyprus.org
Could anyone, please, advise if there is a lot of
spam and unscrupulous advertising. Can I trust
all this information, which is present at this forum?
Sorry for stupid questions, I just really want know which
information I should trust or even pay attention.

hi GRIENlord I was wondering what you meant but the stupid questions but then I noticed that you are from the US and that sort of explain everything :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Xenos 2Fan]

GRIENlord wrote: Hello everybody! I am new to the site www.talkcyprus.org
Could anyone, please, advise if there is a lot of
spam and unscrupulous advertising. Can I trust
all this information, which is present at this forum?
Sorry for stupid questions, I just really want know which
information I should trust or even pay attention.

What information and ads are you talking about GRIEN? You planning on buying property in Cyprus? :lol:

[stavrizatz]

Bananiot, the Pavlos Dinglis seems to me one of the people (just like Makarios Drousiotis) who like to blame everybody about what happened in the past and that is something common among left wing people.

I am not disagreeing with anything that he sais but he presents his opinions as historical truth! It is easy for us looking back to judge people for their mistakes because we know the concequences. Did you watch the movie 'Butterfly Effect' that movie descripes the point that I want to make.

ps Lets see who else is the author of Akritas Plan, so far I heared the names: Georgadgis, Klerides, Pappadopoullos, Lyssarides ... who else?

[Bananiot]

True, Pavlos is a left winger. However, I do not really understand your assertion that like all left wingers he "blames everybody about what happened in the past". I think that we should concentrate on what people say and not pass judgement according to the label that is stuck on people. After all, many right wingers that I know totally agree with Pavlos, especially on what he rights in the above text.

About the Akritas Plan, there is no doubt that Papadopoulos wrote it and that he was the vice leader of the organisation. Yiorgatzis was the leader.

[stavrizatz]

Quote: About the Akritas Plan, there is no doubt that Papadopoulos wrote it and that he was the vice leader of the organisation. Yiorgatzis was the leader.

So it is a fact that Papadopoullos wrote it, what are the eveidence to proof it? Well my knowledge on the akritas plan is limited and all I know is that the author is the unknown person called Akritas, hense akritas plan. If it is a fact that Tpap wrote it then why don't we call it 'Tpaplan'

[erolz]

stavrizatz wrote:
So it is a fact that Papadopoullos wrote it, what are the eveidence to proof it?

Pavlos Dinglis is not the only Greek Cypriot to attribute the bulk of the Akrita's plan to TP. In his book "Process of Country" Glafkos Klerides writes

Quote: I firmly believe that the writing phase of the work in question was done by Tassos Papadopoulos rather than Polikarpos Yorgacis, who did not have the necessary education and knowledge on law to prepare such a document.

Richard Patrick in his book 'Political Geography and the Cyprus Conflict, 1963-71, p36' says the following of the Akritas plan.

Quote: Archbishop Makarios, President of the Republic, entrusted Greek-Cypriot military preperations for the future conflict to a triumvirate composed of Glafkos Clerides, President of the House of Representatives, Tassos Papadopoulos, Minister of Labour, and Polycarpos Yeorgardjis, the Minister of the Interior.

The existence of the plan was originally exposed by the then pro Grivas / anti Makarios Greek Cypriot newspaper Patris (on 21st April 1966). It claims the Archbishop set up a secret organisation and appointed the Minister of the Interior Yeorgagjis as its head under the nom de guerre of Chief Akritas.

stavrizatz wrote:
Well my knowledge on the akritas plan is limited and all I know is that the author is the unknown person called Akritas, hense akritas plan. If it is a fact that Tpap wrote it then why don't we call it 'Tpaplan'

It is in the nature of 'Top Secret' plans that they are not named after their principal author or signed by them in their own names.

My own view is that we will never know as absolute fact if and to what exact degree TP was an author of this document. However it is my belief that based on the evidence available - direct and circumstantial there can be little real doubt that TP was 'involved' in the Akritas plan in both its creation and its objectives. Nor has TP ever disclaimed any involvement, despite being identified as one of it's authors and one it's 'officers' in numerous places and by numerous people.