www.talkcyprus.org

[moonskin]

Korgeneralden Soyer’e: Türklüğünü kanıtla

Here is the translation of the article except the last paragraph which concerns the support of the nationalist UBP to the general HK.

HK = Hayri Kıvrıkoğlu
FSS = Ferdi Sabit Soyer

NTVMSNBC NEWS wrote:
There was a heavy discussion between the pm FSS and top general of the Turkish forces on the island HK in a reception which took place closed to the media.

In the reception given for the honor of Retired general Nihat İlhan, whose wife and 3 children were killed by the Greeks in a massacre which became to be known as the bloody christmas, pm FSS wanted to shake hands with the general HK. However, general refused to shake hands with the pm FSS and openly expressed his position in front of the many invited guests.

General HK, verbally attacked FSS by saying "Why did you not play the national anthem (of Turkey) in the CTP summit? You did not even stand (5 minutes) silent for the memory of martyrs. As if this was not enough, you made the CTP summit on the same day with the day of martyrs (18th March)".

FSS, who was shocked with the reaction of the general, asked him "Do you have any doubts of our Turkishness?" and as an answer general asked him to prove his Turkishness.

In addition, I have to state that this event had no coverage in the Turkish Cypriot press, except the usual suspects Afrika newspaper.

[cypezokyli]

i wonder how one can prove his turkishness (or greekness when it comes to that) !! :roll:

[moonskin]

I have just watched 1800 news and NTV is giving this as the headline news.

NTV officially started a new thread in their discussion forum on the matter, it can be accessed by following the link:

http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/modules/forum/messages.asp?TGID=6023FAAB-A28D-4E05-B987-AC910089074C

[brother]

Quote: Chilly ties between gov't, military in Cyprus, again

Wednesday, March 21, 2007


  The tension between the Turkish Cypriot government and the military resurfaced when a Turkish commander refused to shake hands with Turkish Cypriot Prime Minister Ferdi Sabit Soyer and instead asked the latter to prove his Turkishness in a critical tone.

  Soyer and Lt. Gen. Hayri Kıvrıkog˘lu, commander of the Turkish peace-corps in Cyprus, met in a chilly atmosphere at a special reception on Sunday for the honor of retired Brig. Gen. Nihat I˙lhan, who went to northern Cyprus 44 years after his family was shot to death during a Greek Cypriot campaign of annihilation of Turkish Cypriots all around the island, which is often referred to as ìBloody Christmas.î

  Lt. Gen. Kıvrıkog˘lu refused to shake hands with Soyer before the eyes of many attendees who witnessed a strained exchange of words between the two officials.

  ìWhy didn't you sing the Turkish National Anthem at the congress of your Republican Turks' Party (CTP)? You even did not observe a one-minute silence for the memory of martyrs. What's more, you introduced the party congress at the same time with the Martyrs' Day,î Kıvrıkog˘lu told Soyer, according to news reports.

  Appalled by the Turkish commander's surprising move, Soyer, reportedly, asked: ìTurkishness lies in our heart. Do you have doubts about it?î In response, Kıvrıkog˘lu asked Soyer to prove his Turkishness then.


Full article here

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=68753

[brother]

The turkish military is starting to find out that the Turkish Cypriot are not sheep and have a will and minds of their own and will NOT bow down to their every whim, this is just what is reported but apparently the situation is much worse and deterioating by the day.

If this carries on we could see the Turkish Cypriot going against the Turkish millitary as it happened in 2004 and could be the start of s sort of civil war in the north.

opinions please.

[moonskin]

brother wrote: The turkish military is starting to find out that the Turkish Cypriot are not sheep and have a will and minds of their own and will NOT bow down to their every whim, this is just what is reported but apparently the situation is much worse and deterioating by the day.


So you read what happened and the conclusion you draw is that the Turkish army has finally started to realise that we are not sheep? Are you sure you read the article properly? It is not Soyer refusing to shake hands, it is Kivrikoglu! It is not Kivrikoglu who gets insulted like a naughty dog in front of the invited guests, it is Soyer! It is not the Tukish army officials who get humiliated again and again and again in front of their own people, it is Talat and Soyer!

brother wrote: If this carries on we could see the Turkish Cypriot going against the Turkish military as it happened in 2004 and could be the start of s sort of civil war in the north.

opinions please.


A civil war you say? You mean like with guns, bullets and all that stuff against the Turkish army?

And what exactly happened in 2004 between the Turkish army and the Turkish Cypriots?

Also, I have already reported this yesterday http://www.talkcyprus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79928#79928, perhaps one of you should join the threads.
mod note: done

[Mete]

moonskin wrote:
It is not the Tukish army officials who get humiliated again and again and again in front of their own people, it is Talat and Soyer!

Nothing new there...I wonder where these Turkish army officials get the idea that they should have any say in how people run their own party meetings.

[cypezokyli]

Mete wrote: moonskin wrote:
It is not the Tukish army officials who get humiliated again and again and again in front of their own people, it is Talat and Soyer!

Nothing new there...I wonder where these Turkish army officials get the idea that they should have any say in how people run their own party meetings.

perhaps from a long lasting tradition ?

[brother]

moonskin wrote
Quote: So you read what happened and the conclusion you draw is that the Turkish army has finally started to realise that we are not sheep? Are you sure you read the article properly? It is not Soyer refusing to shake hands, it is Kivrikoglu! It is not Kivrikoglu who gets insulted like a naughty dog in front of the invited guests, it is Soyer! It is not the Tukish army officials who get humiliated again and again and again in front of their own people, it is Talat and Soyer!


The Turkish army always expect the Turkish Cypriot leadership to effectively kiss their backside and if not done then they sulk like little kids and make nasty comments like they have, yes Talat and Soyer do get insulted in front of there own people but most Turkish Cypriot take the insult to their leader upon themselves and usually get very angry about it, are you not annoyed at the actions and comments of the Turkish army officials?????


Quote: A civil war you say? You mean like with guns, bullets and all that stuff against the Turkish army?



No i mean like hankies and handbags :lol:


Quote:

And what exactly happened in 2004 between the Turkish army and the Turkish Cypriots?


In 2004 during the demonstrations against the policies of Denktas and the Turkish state etc. reference to peace and negotiations etc. many Turkish Cypriot had started to organise and one attack had occured on a Turkish millitary base (discussed in another thread) but kept back from the Turkish Cypriot press for obvious reasons like this recent little tiff and the way it was countered was with the opening of the green line and the referandum.

Moonskin a lot of Turkish Cypriot are deluded and fed up with current policies and the only reason people have been subdued is down to the Greek Cypriot 'no'vote and the actions of Tpap but had the Tpap policies been more Turkish Cypriot friendly you would be looking at a different picture in North cyprus right now and civil unrest would be amok.

[Lewis Gerolemou]

Tpap is not clever enough to exploit any dfferences between the Tukish military and Turkish Cypriots, he is unable or unwilling tell them apart. But just suppose there was serious unrest in the north, what would be the effect on the Republic of Cyprus? Would the Greek Cypriots stand by if, say, thousands of Turkish Cypriots fled to the south to escape the Turkish forces - we could end up with 1974 again or even worse.

[pg]

brother wrote:
Quote: A civil war you say? You mean like with guns, bullets and all that stuff against the Turkish army?


No i mean like hankies and handbags :lol:


Let us know if you need more handbags.

[moonskin]

brother wrote: moonskin wrote
Quote: So you read what happened and the conclusion you draw is that the Turkish army has finally started to realise that we are not sheep? Are you sure you read the article properly? It is not Soyer refusing to shake hands, it is Kivrikoglu! It is not Kivrikoglu who gets insulted like a naughty dog in front of the invited guests, it is Soyer! It is not the Tukish army officials who get humiliated again and again and again in front of their own people, it is Talat and Soyer!


The Turkish army always expect the Turkish Cypriot leadership to effectively kiss their backside and if not done then they sulk like little kids and make nasty comments like they have, yes Talat and Soyer do get insulted in front of there own people but most Turkish Cypriot take the insult to their leader upon themselves and usually get very angry about it, are you not annoyed at the actions and comments of the Turkish army officials?????


Where did you get the idea that I might not be annoyed? You stated that,

brother wrote:
The turkish military is starting to find out that the Turkish Cypriot are not sheep...


I am telling you that there is no such thing. You seem to be under the impression that we have somehow reacted to the usual arrogant, controlling, dictatorial behavior of the Turkish army in a way that now they are forced to rethink their behavior! It is exactly the other way around. They are reacting to an already all-Ankara-loyal government in such lowering terms that I am ashamed that the idiot called Soyer is representing me.

brother wrote:
Quote: A civil war you say? You mean like with guns, bullets and all that stuff against the Turkish army?



No i mean like hankies and handbags :lol:


Quote:

And what exactly happened in 2004 between the Turkish army and the Turkish Cypriots?


In 2004 during the demonstrations against the policies of Denktas and the Turkish state etc. reference to peace and negotiations etc. many Turkish Cypriot had started to organise and one attack had occured on a Turkish millitary base (discussed in another thread) but kept back from the Turkish Cypriot press for obvious reasons like this recent little tiff and the way it was countered was with the opening of the green line and the referandum.

Moonskin a lot of Turkish Cypriot are deluded and fed up with current policies and the only reason people have been subdued is down to the Greek Cypriot 'no'vote and the actions of Tpap but had the Tpap policies been more Turkish Cypriot friendly you would be looking at a different picture in North cyprus right now and civil unrest would be amok.

I was being sarcastic so that you can understand the absurdity of the things you are claiming! What civil war are you talking about? That which Turkish Cypriots will take part in? Which part of the Turkish Cypriot community do you mean when you say Turkish Cypriots? Do you think the people supporting UBP and DP will enjoy this idea? Even if we assume that every person who has voted for a left party takes place in such a movement (which is absolute nonsense), are you aware that we are talking about only 50% of the Turkish Cypriots? And are you also aware that you are suggesting there are armed paramilitary underground organisations in North Cyprus right now, right under the nose of Turkish army of 45000 in a place as small as North Cyprus! And who has armed these groups by the way? Greek Cypriots? or Fidel Castro? Can you see what kind of absurdities appear when you ask only a couple of questions to yourself on the matter?

Brother, I strongly suspect that you don't have any evidences to what you are saying, right?. But making such extreme claims without *any* evidences makes you look no more credible than our fellow forum member DP! I am sorry if this sounds too harsh; it is not intended as such.

PS: It would have created (at least) 1 month of materials for Afrika newspaper even if Levent heard only the gossip of such a thing. WE WOULD KNOW BY NOW!

[brother]

moonskin wrote: brother wrote: moonskin wrote
Quote: So you read what happened and the conclusion you draw is that the Turkish army has finally started to realise that we are not sheep? Are you sure you read the article properly? It is not Soyer refusing to shake hands, it is Kivrikoglu! It is not Kivrikoglu who gets insulted like a naughty dog in front of the invited guests, it is Soyer! It is not the Tukish army officials who get humiliated again and again and again in front of their own people, it is Talat and Soyer!


The Turkish army always expect the Turkish Cypriot leadership to effectively kiss their backside and if not done then they sulk like little kids and make nasty comments like they have, yes Talat and Soyer do get insulted in front of there own people but most Turkish Cypriot take the insult to their leader upon themselves and usually get very angry about it, are you not annoyed at the actions and comments of the Turkish army officials?????


Where did you get the idea that I might not be annoyed? You stated that,

brother wrote:
The turkish military is starting to find out that the Turkish Cypriot are not sheep...


I am telling you that there is no such thing. You seem to be under the impression that we have somehow reacted to the usual arrogant, controlling, dictatorial behavior of the Turkish army in a way that now they are forced to rethink their behavior! It is exactly the other way around. They are reacting to an already all-Ankara-loyal government in such lowering terms that I am ashamed that the idiot called Soyer is representing me.

brother wrote:
Quote: A civil war you say? You mean like with guns, bullets and all that stuff against the Turkish army?



No i mean like hankies and handbags :lol:


Quote:

And what exactly happened in 2004 between the Turkish army and the Turkish Cypriots?


In 2004 during the demonstrations against the policies of Denktas and the Turkish state etc. reference to peace and negotiations etc. many Turkish Cypriot had started to organise and one attack had occured on a Turkish millitary base (discussed in another thread) but kept back from the Turkish Cypriot press for obvious reasons like this recent little tiff and the way it was countered was with the opening of the green line and the referandum.

Moonskin a lot of Turkish Cypriot are deluded and fed up with current policies and the only reason people have been subdued is down to the Greek Cypriot 'no'vote and the actions of Tpap but had the Tpap policies been more Turkish Cypriot friendly you would be looking at a different picture in North cyprus right now and civil unrest would be amok.

I was being sarcastic so that you can understand the absurdity of the things you are claiming! What civil war are you talking about? That which Turkish Cypriots will take part in? Which part of the Turkish Cypriot community do you mean when you say Turkish Cypriots? Do you think the people supporting UBP and DP will enjoy this idea? Even if we assume that every person who has voted for a left party takes place in such a movement (which is absolute nonsense), are you aware that we are talking about only 50% of the Turkish Cypriots? And are you also aware that you are suggesting there are armed paramilitary underground organisations in North Cyprus right now, right under the nose of Turkish army of 45000 in a place as small as North Cyprus! And who has armed these groups by the way? Greek Cypriots? or Fidel Castro? Can you see what kind of absurdities appear when you ask only a couple of questions to yourself on the matter?

Brother, I strongly suspect that you don't have any evidences to what you are saying, right?. But making such extreme claims without *any* evidences makes you look no more credible than our fellow forum member DP! I am sorry if this sounds too harsh; it is not intended as such.

PS: It would have created (at least) 1 month of materials for Afrika newspaper even if Levent heard only the gossip of such a thing. WE WOULD KNOW BY NOW!

Then why did they never report the attack by the Turkish Cypriot on a turkish millitary base then in 2004???

I was challenged and ridiculed when i told people on the forum of the above and when it was proven not one came and aplogised but just carried on with there arrogant attitude.

Im sorry moonskin but because you have not heard of it or there is no obvious visible signs to you does not mean that it is not happening.

BUT SUFFICE TO SAY THAT THE TURKISH MILLITARY IS OUR GUEST ON THE ISLAND AND THIS ATTITUDE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

[brother]

Quote: Turkish Cyprus is not our possession...




Mehmet Ali Birand

  The disagreement between Turkish Cyprus Prime Minister Ferdi Sabit Soyer and Commander of the Turkish Peace Corps in Cyprus Lt. Gen. Hayri Kıvrıkog˘lu is the element that lies underneath a disease that has been spreading for a long time in Turkish Cyprus. Erdal S¸afak wrote about this in Sabah. I would like to take up from where he has left the issue.

  The population in Turkish Cyprus is increasingly becoming ìformer residents of Turkeyî and the Turks of the island are departing bit by bit. Some go to Turkey, some to other countries. The people who move from Turkey to the island see themselves as the conquerors of Turkish Cyprus. They even see the Cypriot locals as ìowingî them. They act accordingly. Even the tourist from Turkey asks for a discount, saying, ìWe saved you.î

  This is a very offensive attitude. We can be sure that, if we lose Turkish Cyprus one day it will not be the result of Greek skillfulness but the result of our separatist attitude.

  We claim Turkish Cyprus is an independent state. Then the commander of the military force appointed to protect this independent state refuses to shake the hand of this state's prime minister and even inquires from him:

  ìWhy did you not sing the Turkish National Anthem during your assembly?î

  So, where is the ìindependentî label?

  This sort of an attitude inadvertently helps those who see the Turkish military as an occupying force. It puts the military in a role that enforces a model instead of a compassionate protector.

  Anyway we look at it, Kıvrıkog˘lu surpassed his authority and his position. I do not think that the General Staff will ignore this. They will activate their internal mechanisms and convey to Kıvrıkog˘lu that his attitude is not appropriate.

  The Cyprus issue has been approaching the crossroads. This issue will either be overcome before Turkey's full membership into the European Union by some amendments to the old Annan Plan or the division in Cyprus will carry on.

  The continuation of the division in Cyprus means that Turkish Cyprus will slowly slide toward recognition like in Taiwan's case.

  In such a crossroads, we cannot govern Turkish Cyprus in the name of the Turks in Cyprus. We cannot teach them what kind of people they should be either. We do not have such a right.

  Whether it is a tourist from Turkey, or an emigrant from Turkey, or a member of our military, they should not forget that they are there as guests. One day, they will hand over the island to its rightful owners. If we would like for the Turks of Cyprus to really love us, for them to remember that we will be there for them during their hard times, then we should act accordingly. We should not presume the role of a teacher.

  If we keep our crude behavior, we will find ourselves in a hard position one day.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=68846

[-mikkie2-]

Obviously Soyer and Talat didn't have the guts to say that they were 1st and foremost CYPRIOT.

I am afraid to say that sincce the majority of the population in the north is currently of Turkish origin, Talat and Syer basically have no real power. They just do what Turkey says.

For example, Pertev and Tzionis were pretty much close to agreeing the start of the July 8th process. Pertev is then summoned to Ankara and lo and behold, he comes back and torpedoes the process! This is how much power the Turkish Cypriots have - ZERO. And there is very little the Greek Cypriots can do to help the Turkish Cypriot's if the prevailing attitude is that better to be under the yoke of Turkey than to do things together with the Greek Cypriot's. The Turkish Cypriot's will eventually disappear if this attitude prevails. If howver the Turkish Cypriot's show a genuine struggle to free themslves from overwhelming Turkish influence, not necessarily by force, but by the politicians being more vocal, then the Greek Cypriot's will be compelled to help them as we then have common interests (not that we don't already of course).