www.talkcyprus.org

[Viewpoint]

New poll conducted by KADEM reveals only 20% of Turkish Cypriots want a federal solution and that the last 3 years have effected to Turkish Cypriots voters towards wanting a 2 state solution, 65% said they would prefer a 2 state solution.

These are the effects of Greek Cypriot intransigence, well done guys.

[Kifeas]

Viewpoint wrote: New poll conducted by KADEM reveals only 20% of Turkish Cypriots want a federal solution and that the last 3 years have effected to Turkish Cypriots voters towards wanting a 2 state solution, 65% said they would prefer a 2 state solution.

These are the effects of Greek Cypriot intransigence, well done guys.

What you and the by majority illegal population (illegal occupiers /illegal settlers) of the occupied north wish or want, is totally and completely irrelevant. You will do whatever Turkey orders you to do, when it will soon realise that it is either going to remain an outcast of the international community with no chance of ever seen the door of the EU, or to compromise to a solution of the Cyprus issue.

Since when we should be concerned with the feelings and views of the usurper of other people's properties, towns, villages and cultural heritage, and whether he likes this kind of solutions or the other one, etc? Of course always when someone is net benefiting from the products of theft and other illegalities, they will always oppose to any solution that will require them to surrender the spoils of war they have acquired. This is why the majority of Turkish Cypriots do not want a solution but only partition. No thieves wilfully ever return the stolen goods; otherwise there would be no need for a police to be around in order to be chasing them.

As I said, what you wish is irrelevant. In the end you will only do whatever mama Turka will be compelled to dictate upon you to do! Do as many polls as you wish. You are simply counting without the innkeeper!

[Bananiot]

I am very concerned about the findings of the polls. Steadily but surely, both communities are looking at partition as the only viable solution. This is because the Turkish Cypriot community is becoming convinced that we do not want them and the Greek Cypriot community is convinced that it can do better by itself and in time, if the balance of power changes, it can claim back what it lost.

I for one am deeply saddened by these developments because I can fully appreciate the dangers that we will face in the not so distant future. As a result, the Turkish Cypriot community will eventually lose the Cypriotness but the Greek Cypriot community will lose more than their cypriotness.

[Kifeas]

Bananiot wrote: I am very concerned about the findings of the polls. Steadily but surely, both communities are looking at partition as the only viable solution.
The Turkish Cypriot community has always been looking for partition, every single day since 1974, simply because they grabbed way more than their fair share (45% of the total real estate value of private properties of the whole of Cyprus and the very best 36% of the island and 50% of its coastlines,) and that is also why they accepted the Annan plan in 2004. They simply continue to want what they have always been longing, i.e. to legalize that spoils of an illegal act of aggression and occupation by Turkey.

Bananiot wrote: This is because the Turkish Cypriot community is becoming convinced that we do not want them … They do not give a damn shit if we want them or not, but only how to fuck us and then get away with it. This is what Curiass and CIA have been telling you!

Bananiot wrote: I for one am deeply saddened by these developments because I can fully appreciate the dangers that we will face in the not so distant future.
Which dangers? We will just seat and wait until we get our country back in the same way they have stolen it from us. Our forefathers have endured their ottoman ancestors for 300 years and they never lost hope, and before them the Venetians for 100 years, and the Arabs and the Persians and the Franks, etc. In the end, all of them, one after the other, they came and left, but we stayed and surfaced, simply because it was OUR country for so many thousands of years. What are the 32 years, in front of the 300 years that our grandfathers endured the ottoman yoke? Nothing! Only a small fraction of the time and the pain!

Bananiot wrote: As a result, the Turkish Cypriot community will eventually lose the Cypriotness
Lose their Cypriotness???? Since when did they tell you that they value their Cypriotness? Aren't they always been telling you that they are not Cypriots but only Turks born in Cyprus, and that there are no Cypriot people. Who said to you they care losing something they never wanted to have in the first place?

[Bananiot]

Birkibrisli, gardash, the honour is yours.

[Kifeas]

Bananiot wrote: Birkibrisli, gardash, the honour is yours.

Unfortunately, one or two swallows appearing in the sky, do not mark the beginning of Spring!

[Get Real!]

"The Turkish Cypriot community has always been looking for partition, every single day since 1974,..."

Well said Kifeas, the whole message was spot on, except they wanted partition from way back in the early fifties not just since 74.

I just want to add that Turks came here UNINVITED from way back in 1571 and they left behind some of their people. These people today can keep having wet ottoman dreams or get their act together and change with the times.

The Greek Cypriot majority CANNOT and WILL NOT again accept any undemocratic political arrangements such as those forced upon them in the 1960 constitution whereby a 18% minority had 30% of the House of Representatives and veto power!

It's just not going to happen anymore so those that don't like blending in to the existing democracy, regardless of ethnic background, had better start planning a one-way ticket...

...and that includes YOU Bananiot.

[erolz]

Get Real! wrote: "The Turkish Cypriot community has always been looking for partition, every single day since 1974,..."

Well said Kifeas, the whole message was spot on, except they wanted partition from way back in the early fifties not just since 74.

And why did and do so many Turkish Cypriot prefer partition to living in a united Cyprus ? Could it be that the united Cyprus that has been offered to them is not one that is very attractive? Namely one where they get no effective communal say in their own futures even on issues that affect their community totally differently and negatively from the Greek Cypriot one ? If this was the kind of 'united europe' the EU offered, and indeed sought to IMPOSE on Greek Cypriot against their will, then they would not want to be part of it either and prefer being separate from the EU.

Get Real! wrote:
I just want to add that Turks came here UNINVITED from way back in 1571 and they left behind some of their people. These people today can keep having wet ottoman dreams or get their act together and change with the times.

It is because of your belief that Greek Cypriot are 'real' Cypriots and Turkish Cypriot are not that the Turkish Cypriot community needs and requires some form political protection from the Greek Cypriot community imposing things on the Turkish Cypriot community in their own shared homeland that prejudice Turkish Cypriot as a community.

Get Real! wrote:
The Greek Cypriot majority CANNOT and WILL NOT again accept any undemocratic political arrangements such as those forced upon them in the 1960 constitution whereby a 18% minority had 30% of the House of Representatives and veto power!

Again it is exactly because you seek to twist the meaning an intent of 'democracy' to suit your ethnic objective of ensuring that Greek Cypriot alone effectively rule all of Cyprus and have a right to impose anything they see fit on the Turkish Cypriot community no matter how prejudicial that is to the Turkish Cypriot community and that Turkish Cypriot community has not right to determine its future at all - thats is why such arrangements are necessary. If Greek Cypriot leaderships and individuals like yourself had not sought divisive greek nationalist objectives and to force those on the Turkish Cypriot community against its will, but had pursued instead inclusive cypriots ones, then the need and desire for protections or separations would not exist. If you make the bed to do not complain when you have to lay in that bed.

Get Real! wrote:
It's just not going to happen anymore so those that don't like blending in to the existing democracy, regardless of ethnic background, had better start planning a one-way ticket...

...and that includes YOU Bananiot.

So basically if anyone Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot is not willing to accept your views and anything you may wish to impose on them, even if that imposition is disastrous for them and good for you, then they can just piss off - and you wonder why the Turkish Cypriot community wants and needs protections in a untied Cyprus ?

[Mete]

Kifeas wrote:
Lose their Cypriotness???? Since when did they tell you that they value their Cypriotness? Aren't they always been telling you that they are not Cypriots but only Turks born in Cyprus, and that there are no Cypriot people. Who said to you they care losing something they never wanted to have in the first place?

You couldn't be further from the truth but then again what can you do when you're blinded by fanaticism...

[s300]

65% of Turkish Cypriots want a 2 state solution.

65% Turkish Cypriots voted for the Annan Plan- which was in effect a two state solution.

This statistic is further evidence that the Annan Plan had bugger-all to do with "Reunification" as claimed by some newspaper articles.

Reunification is the only solution the UN can accomodate legally. Any future UN solution will accordingly be closer to true reunification rather that a loose confederation.

[depurple]

s300 what did the other 35% want?

Personally and I have said this many time:I would like 2 states as well: Nth Cyprus and Sth Cyprus BUT freedom of movement and freedom existence:
In other words I don't care if the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus control what they control BUT let the Greek Cypriot legal owners take back their properties and do WHAT EVER they want with them:
Sell them!
Rent Them!
Live in them under the jurisdiction of Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (Which will be governed by the EU)!
Or donate them to the church so they can get to heaven without a visa!
cheers
PS IF it was the other way around?
If Greece took back Constantinople I can bet you that NOT 65% BUT 100% of the Greeks would vote YES to ANY Annan plan any day!

[Alexios]

I would like to know what the 65% is made up of, ie T/Cs and settlers, if anybody knows.
Also, it would be interesting to know the exact percentage of G/Cs who also prefer a 2 state solution. I have in mind unpublished surveys that reveal that as much as 49% of G/C prefer a 2 state solution with the important provision however that full and real compensation is given for properties lost.
These are sad developments to say the least.Whatever the criteria for accepting partition, the truth is that under the current political environment the majority or a near majority of Cypriots wish to live separetely. Ofcourse, attitudes change.Surveys usually reflect a prevailing atmosphere which we must admit lately is not very encouraging.People are fed up and this has as much to do with their spontaneous reaction to questions posed in whatever surveys.There has never been, atleast in the South, a serious discussion of what the pros and cons are of partition as this is considered anathema, regardless of the fact that politicians are well aware of this psychological trend towards a 2 state solution. So people do not realize the dangers of such a solution which in essence will be a type of double Enosis...

[Viewpoint]

The idea of a 2 state solution was inevitable after the referendum as people came to terms with the knowledge that we cannot negotiate a balanced deal as the 2 sides want different things, a plus for one is a minus for the other.

So the idea of 2 states where Cypriots may roam and settle freely reclaim old property rights either through compensation or return appears to be the only viable deal as a forced federal system where one sides does not commit 100% will not function and will run into trouble very quickly. We are to used to having our own countries to realistically want to share them, so its time we all stood up and said the state solution on a level playing field should be accepted by the majority from both sides as the best deal that can be found under the circumstances.

[Alexios]

Viepoint, much as i woulnt prefer it myself,I believe that if Turkey proposed a 2 state solution which would provide the right of return under T/C administration of a fair amount of refugees and full compensation to the rest, such a solution would be accepted, atleast by the majority of the G/C people.Familiar questions are still posed however. Will the people who return have equal basic human rights such as the right to vote or be voted? Will compensation be granted at today's free market prices for immovable property and who is going to pay? Will the whole population have the right to purchase property, set up business etc in each new "country" as is the case with the rest of Europe etc etc etc. You see, Partition as an agreed solution is not as easy as it sounds.

[Viewpoint]

Alexios wrote: Viepoint, much as i woulnt prefer it myself,I believe that if Turkey proposed a 2 state solution which would provide the right of return under T/C administration of a fair amount of refugees and full compensation to the rest, such a solution would be accepted, atleast by the majority of the G/C people.Familiar questions are still posed however. Will the people who return have equal basic human rights such as the right to vote or be voted? Will compensation be granted at today's free market prices for immovable property and who is going to pay? Will the whole population have the right to purchase property, set up business etc in each new "country" as is the case with the rest of Europe etc etc etc. You see, Partition as an agreed solution is not as easy as it sounds.

You are right nothing is as easy as it sounds but partition maybe painful in the beginning but does not have the risk of breaking down or causing problems in the future. The criteria for representation would be the same as any other non EU state, until a time we felt we were ready to enter the EU. Compensation is a must for people who do not want to live in the north, or south this will be paid by swaps of Turkish Cypriot/Greek Cypriot land in the south/north and other donors Turkey, UK, Greece EU etc...