www.talkcyprus.org

[RudeGal]

Not sure if this been done before, but thought it would be interesting to note what people felt were reasonable steps the Other/Either side could take, unilaterally if necessary, to help create a more positive atmosphere on the ground (general public) and politically.

Here are my Top 3 suggestions for each side:

For North
1. Remove flag on the mountain
2. Return Maras/Varosha to rightful owners
3. Significant reduction in number of Turkish troops on island (not sure current level, but should halve)

For South
1. Do not obstruct licence for direct flights to Ercan
2. Do not obstruct international accreditation for universities in North
3. Do not obstruct athletes in North from participating in international sports events (under Olympic flag or as club / Turkish Cypriot-Allstars team)

Look forward to reading others' suggestions...

[Dhavlos]

For North
1. Remove flag on the mountain
2. More significant policy on return of refugees/property - particularly varosha, but also property which has not been 'occupied' - ie let people return/claim back
3. Significant reduction in number of Turkish troops on island and possibly start 'returning' settlers or at least stopping 'settlers' come and settle in the north (making situation worse-propertywise)

For South
1. Change education like Turkish Cypriots did with anti-Turkish Cypriot sentiments removed (maybe suggest twinning with schools in the north? or even compulsary learning of turkish in schools? swapping of teachers between north/south for a few lessons a month/week?)
2. Enable Turkish Cypriots to get their properties back easier than current system (maybe remove 6 month requirement?) whilst encouraging return of Turkish Cypriots perminantly to the south.
3. not sure of a third...maybe along the lines of propose a joint olympic/football/(all international sport) team? like the koreans.

reasons:
1 - just makes sense, plus if we are to live with Turkish Cypriots/unification, we cant teach our children to 'hate' them...if you see what i mean, we cant continue as we are. Plus twinning of schools/teachers encourages understanding and contact between children, esp. when they are most impressionable of the 'other side'. learning turkish, just encouraging simple communication between compatriots, and opens up a huge market for cypriots (a good 80m people just 'above' us on the map!)

2. encouraging Turkish Cypriots back/making it easier for them to get properties back, makes the 'other side' take the pressure on the property issue...in other words, putting them on the back foot, they are pressured to take the same actions (not jsut a property commission to be satisfactory). plus, it would encourage integration of the two communities, and hopefully show that we can all live together, and the Republic of Cyprus is not 'rascist' to Turkish Cypriots...maybe bring back elements of the 1960 constitution if there are enough who return?

3. we may as well look to improve relations, and if Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots can stand together and watch their team internationally then it would encourage friendship through sport, no? plus it would mean cyprus can do better, since there is going to be good sports people on both sides that can improve the teams. sport can be such a simple and easy way to encourage reunification....jsut how in the uk, sport is used to get rid of rascism etc.


I know that the 'south' seems to have a lot more to do unilaterally than the north, but i think in the current situation, we need to do 'more' to counterbalance the impression the 'no' vote gave. plus, it puts us in the good eyes of the international community, giving us more support. none of the things i see that i have suggested would compromise the idea of 'recognising' the north. hope it makes sense!!

[Mete]

This is somewhat repetition of what you guys said but here it is.

I think Greek Cypriots have the following concerns:
1- They think that Turkish Cypriots want a seperate state and they are not genuine about a solution.
2- They want their properties back.
3- They're not comfortable about the number of Turkish troops and settlers on the island.

So these are the suggestions for the north to alleviate the problem:

For North:
1- Transform T R N C into Turkish Component State (T C S), something like outlined in the Annan plan and make it very clear to Greek Cypriots that Turkish Cypriots want a federal Cyprus not a separate state.
2- Reduce the number of Turkish troops in the north, stop further development on Greek Cypriot land, start returning Varosha and empty villages back to Greek Cypriots.
3- Start rehabilitating people that will be affected with a future solution. This involves starting building properties for people currently living in villages/towns that will be given back to Greek Cypriots, sending back settlers (not all but the ones arrived recently in line with EU rules), make sure no more undocumented settlers are arriving.

And Turkish Cypriots have the following concerns:
1- Greek Cypriots don't want to share power and they want to politically dominate the island.
2- Greek Cypriots don't care about a solution in the short term.
3- Greek Cypriots want to keep them isolated from the world until a solution.

To alleviate these problems:

For South:
1- Invite Turkish Component State representatives to occupy Turkish Cypriot seats in the Republic of Cyprus until a federal government is formed.
2- Set up a commision in the Republic of Cyprus senate composed of Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot representatives whose sole purpose would be to find a solution within a year.
3- Let Turkish Cypriots use Famagusta port and Ercan airport and let Turkish Cypriots participate in international events as north Cyprus until a future solution is found.

And these are some nice to have confidence building measures in no particular order:
0- A truth and reconciliation committee is formed where past atrocities are investigated and responsible ones are punished.
1- North removes the flag in the mountains in exchange of a common history book taught in schools both in the north and the south.
2- Greek Cypriots visit north freely without any sort of ID and they can settle in the north if they wish with some restrictions (like 30% restriction in the Annan plan).
3- Bicommunal leagues are formed for every sport branch. A bicommunal soccer team tours Europe and plays games with European teams.
4- Turkish/Greek taught in all public schools.
5- Both sides start using Euro.
6- Nicosia airport is opened for both communities.

[depurple]

Top Three for both sides:Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus & Republic of Cyprus

1: Return of everyone back to its rightful & legally owned land and properties:

2: All Greek & Turkish troops and identities (Flags Slogans ect) to be removed from the island AS well as all other GUNS and wepons!

3: Everyone living in Cyprus will have an equal EU Status/Citizenship as Cypriots: IF they do not want to be true EU Cypriots and still believe in Greece, Turkey or who ever than they must leave OR be deported OR not have EU Cypriot Status and can not vote or have entitlements as EU citizens of Cyprus:

I would also like to add that civil weddings should be allowed between Greek Cypriot & Turkish Cypriot:

I agree with Greek/Turkish/English taught at school
and A truth and reconciliation committee (IF they will honestly spill the beans which I doubt as long as Dentash & Clerides are still alive):
cheers and good luck!

[repulsewarrior]

Very interesting, but I can't think of anything to add... great topic, thanks RG.

[LEF]

I fully agree that we should concentrate on confidence building measures. But can someone tell me how we can make there proposals a reality?

Will not Talat together with Turkey and Papadopoullos together with Greece as well as EU and British and USA start demanding more? This is at least what I have observed during the past 2 years.

[Dhavlos]

hmmm, i suppose a lot of these CBMs can be acheived through NGOs or maybe some kind of pressure/interest group influence on governments, but somehow....being cypriots we are all to stubbourn it seems to think about the good of everyone abouve ourselves.

plus i dont think there are any kind of pressure groups to promote and push for these CBMs...
sadly

[repulsewarrior]

welcome, LEF.

All the parties you have mentioned, imo, are quite satsisfied with the status quo because it furthers their individual needs, and it leaves an even bigger geo-political problem on the back burner.

With Cyprus impotent as a geographically important center, there is a balance of power, which denies the world's hegemony, and the need for ending the Nationalistic fervour of the past.

Life can go on as it is without recognising the biggest enemies, not other people, but ignorance, hunger and disease.

In time, because of the dialog which forums such as this encourage, this will change.

[RudeGal]

Happy New Year everyone! There are some fab ideas here (def'ly good food 4 thought 4 me) and clearly CBMs 'trend of the day' -another thread has some top ideas from the United Cyprus Platform.

Given the current political climate/2007-8 calendar and the growing entrenchment of either side's leaders, I don't see much hope of authorities taking on any of these CBMs :( So I think it really is up to NGOs and the more progressive (sadly currently fringe) political parties stepping up. Some of these CBMs would be the bitterest (thankfully only psychological) pills for either side to take since 1963-74. Time is meant to be a healer, but in Cyprus it is making it harder. Why? [I'm not sure, but anyone who does know, answers on a postcard :lol: ]

For me, this Forum has been a revelation about The 'Other' Side and 'my own' side (& the amazing views across all). I am always inspired by the positive NRG/wisdom, whether light-hearted banter or seriously poli debate, that can only come from good, honest, respectful 2-way exchanges. It needs to be amplified!

My New year's resolution for you all (!!!): whatever your worldwiew, everyone on this Forum needs to get politically active! If we don't, who will? All the wrong people, that's who! That's why we in this mess!

If all the good people on this Forum, the positive political groups (like EDU) & NGOs find common areas of interest to synergise, we can create colletive action on some CBMs (e.g. park for peace, or truth & recon commission, which doesn't/shouldn't have poli leaders involved).

The international community wants to see progress in Cyprus but are tiring of the childish political games of both sides. If ordinary people can show more common sense & unite via collective action, I think the int'al media & EU peeps in particular will support too. Create the right momentum, and ...

...Every avalanche starts life as a snowflake... :wink:

[RudeGal]

And BTW :welcome: LEF!

[pg]

LEF wrote: I fully agree that we should concentrate on confidence building measures. But can someone tell me how we can make there proposals a reality?

There are many good proposals, so it is difficult to do them all at once. It is possible to put them in a "road map" before starting to implement them - but then people will start complaining and say that we do not want a solution piece by piece, but a comprehensive one..., and we start going around and around and around and...

[zan]

When we can stop trying to get others to pay for our mistakes then all other measures can come into play. Without the greed of all the people that not only want land back but millions upon millions on top then this thing will never come to an end and all sensible ideas will just remain floating in the ether.

[depurple]

Zan what was my mistake:
We bought the land in Kyrenia in 1972 and went back to Australia to make money to build a home and then LOST the whole lot: So are we to blame?
Do I have to pay for this?
OR is it the you lost we lost catch 22!
Remember when we bought the land in Kyrenia in 1972 we could of bougth half of Limassol, 3/4 of Pafos and ALL of Ayia Napa with the same money: So really we are not asking for millions for nothing BUT we don't want peanuts that everyone seems to be offering:
What I would like is 22 acres on the beach anywhere in Cyprus BUT who would give me this? NOT the Republic of Cyprus:
Or the 2 million pounds from the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus!
BUT to forget it for the sake of a solution? I am not that much of a patriot to Cyprus As MOST ARE ON THIS FORUM! or ARE THEY?
CHEERS
PS Most people thought after 30 years we would forget our ANCESTRAL land like in Constantinople, Alexandria, Smyrni and other places BUT they where wrong!

[Viewpoint]

depurple wrote: Zan what was my mistake:
We bought the land in Kyrenia in 1972 and went back to Australia to make money to build a home and then LOST the whole lot: So are we to blame?
Do I have to pay for this?
OR is it the you lost we lost catch 22!
Remember when we bought the land in Kyrenia in 1972 we could of bougth half of Limassol, 3/4 of Pafos and ALL of Ayia Napa with the same money: So really we are not asking for millions for nothing BUT we don't want peanuts that everyone seems to be offering:
What I would like is 22 acres on the beach anywhere in Cyprus BUT who would give me this? NOT the Republic of Cyprus:
Or the 2 million pounds from the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus!
BUT to forget it for the sake of a solution? I am not that much of a patriot to Cyprus As MOST ARE ON THIS FORUM! or ARE THEY?
CHEERS
PS Most people thought after 30 years we would forget our ANCESTRAL land like in Constantinople, Alexandria, Smyrni and other places BUT they where wrong!

Apply to the property commission :wink:

[zan]

depurple wrote: Zan what was my mistake:
We bought the land in Kyrenia in 1972 and went back to Australia to make money to build a home and then LOST the whole lot: So are we to blame?
Do I have to pay for this?
OR is it the you lost we lost catch 22!
Remember when we bought the land in Kyrenia in 1972 we could of bougth half of Limassol, 3/4 of Pafos and ALL of Ayia Napa with the same money: So really we are not asking for millions for nothing BUT we don't want peanuts that everyone seems to be offering:
What I would like is 22 acres on the beach anywhere in Cyprus BUT who would give me this? NOT the Republic of Cyprus:
Or the 2 million pounds from the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus!
BUT to forget it for the sake of a solution? I am not that much of a patriot to Cyprus As MOST ARE ON THIS FORUM! or ARE THEY?
CHEERS
PS Most people thought after 30 years we would forget our ANCESTRAL land like in Constantinople, Alexandria, Smyrni and other places BUT they where wrong!


Its not a matter of blame DP and if it is then the blame lies with the government of the time AND with our fathers. My family were poor but if your family were indeed as rich as you say they were then they are to blame more. They must have had great influence and power on the island when these politicians decided to tear us apart what was their part in it all. If they did not play a negative role then what did they do to help put things right. Sorry to be so candid but we as Cypriots have to face some home truths and the smell of money and in your case more money is tainting your views. It is that lack of patriotism that is ruining the island.


By the way where is my cheque for our song that we wrote. Surely that will see us through :wink: :D