www.talkcyprus.org

[s300]

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7005858103

Argentina has joined france in commemorating the Armenian Genocide.

[Khan]

Isnt it funny, the EU right now is debating a softer stance on Serbia who is protecting Ratko Mladić, a fugitive charged with Serbias genocide role.

Yet those in Europe think Turkey has to recognise something 90 years ago committed by the very people Ataturk fought against and for something no one was ever charged with!

[AQMessiah]

Khan wrote: Isnt it funny, the EU right now is debating a softer stance on Serbia who is protecting Ratko Mladić, a fugitive charged with Serbias genocide role.

Yet those in Europe think Turkey has to recognise something 90 years ago committed by the very people Ataturk fought against and for something no one was ever charged with!

Again with these lies? Check the other thread, there ARE people who have been charged and executed for their role in the Armenian Genocide. Ataturk recognized the "massacres" against the Ottoman's Christian subjects, it's time you did too.

EDIT: And WHY, for God's sake, WHY(!?) are you bringing up Serbia? Trying to justify the acts of genocide will only lead you to the conclusion that it is a losing battle Khan.
2nd EDIT: "Lies" may be a bit harsh, "misunderstandings" seem to work better. Lies is just disrespectful I suppose. :D

[bg_turk]

s300 wrote: http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7005858103

Argentina has joined france in commemorating the Armenian Genocide.
And why do you post this on December 15th?
Argentina (due in part to its sizeable Armenian community) had recognized as genocide the Armenian massacres long time ago, that is no news.

[bg_turk]

AQMessiah wrote:
Again with these lies? Check the other thread, there ARE people who have been charged and executed for their role in the Armenian Genocide. Ataturk recognized the "massacres" against the Ottoman's Christian subjects, it's time you did too.


People were charged for war crimes, not genocide. Nobody called the 1915 events a genocide then and for the duration of the thirty years that immediately followed them.

You may call it whatever you like - a horrendous genocide, a bararic massacre, a holocaust even, but the Turkish state will never recognize as Genocide events that then were not and still are legally not a Genocide. There is a clause in the Genocide convention that explicitly mentions that the convention cannot be applied retroactively. No international tribunal has so far found Turkey guilty of Genocide and will never do in my opinion. And if the victims are serious about elevating the crime against them to the same status enjoyed by the Holocaust, or the Bosnian, Rwandan, and now the Darfur Genocides, they must work towards establishing a UN supervised tribunal to judge the perpetrators based on solid facts and material evidence, not some academic conjectures and hypotheses. Given the time that has elapsed, that is unlikely to ever happen.

So the issue that is facing the Turkish state now is not really legal recognition, it is freedom of speech. People should be free to call the events whatever they like, and the trials against the likes of Orhan Pamuk, Hrant Dink, Elif Safak, unsuccessful though they might have been, were completely unnecessary intimidations and in my opinion gross violations of fundamental rights such as freedom of speech. People being able to call the events whatever they like is the real issue, recognition by the government is a non-issue.

This whole debate on events that have happened 90 years ago is quite tiring. I think it is high time that we focus on the ongoing genocides and try to save as many lives as possible rather than waste time on deaths of times bygone. Darfurians are still being murdered en masse, 600 000 Iraqis have died - are these not genocides?.

[s300]

its an article from yesterday:

Quote: And why do you post this on December 15th?

Quote: Argentina Passes Law Declaring Armenian Deaths A "Genocide"

December 14, 2006 2:24 p.m. EST

Quote: Nobody called the 1915 events a genocide then and for the duration of the thirty years that immediately followed them.

The term genocide was coined to refer to the crimes committed against Armenian civilians.Like you say 30 years later by Lemkin

Hitler said "no one remebers the Armenians"but the french and the argentinians do

[AQMessiah]

s300 wrote:
Hitler said "no one remebers the Armenians"but the french and the argentinians do

Don't forget the Americans, they also remember but are constantly being pressured by the Turkish government that any move towards Genocide recognition will hurt their ties.
Keep going down that genocide list bg, it won't change the facts.

Studying for finals, enough procrastination...

[PAul]

Khan wrote:

Quote: Isnt it funny, the EU right now is debating a softer stance on Serbia who is protecting Ratko Mladić, a fugitive charged with Serbias genocide role.

Yet those in Europe think Turkey has to recognise something 90 years ago committed by the very people Ataturk fought against and for something no one was ever charged with!

Hypocrisy at its finest

[brother]

PolZegerully wrote: Hi everyone.!
This is my first time on this site
I would like to tell what I really like this project this
I've been reading it for a while, and I have learned so much here
So, I decided to try my luck asking a few questions...
How can you IM, PM or whatever you call it to certain members?
I'd like to ask more questions about this project.
By the way, nice domain name www.talkcyprus.org

Hi PolZegerully and welcome to the forum :welcome:


To PM another member just click the PM button under one of their posts or go to their profile.

:wink:

Hope that helps :D

[bg_turk]

s300 wrote:
Hitler said "no one remebers the Armenians"but the french and the argentinians do
That is very controvversial. Chech the wikipedia article. The only source for that alleged quote is an American journalist who is known to have misquoted Hitler on numerous occasions. His testimony was not acceptable as credible on the Nuremberg trials, and subsequently there is no reference to Hitler mentioning anything about Armenians.

[bg_turk]

s300 wrote:
The term genocide was coined to refer to the crimes committed against Armenian civilians.Like you say 30 years later by Lemkin

That is called anachronism - judging past events by present standards or the standards of a different era. It is a usful propaganda tool . In their historical context the Armenian massacres were not a genocide.

[Evagoras]

bg_turk wrote: s300 wrote:
The term genocide was coined to refer to the crimes committed against Armenian civilians.Like you say 30 years later by Lemkin

That is called anachronism - judging past events by present standards or the standards of a different era. It is a usful propaganda tool . In their historical context the Armenian massacres were not a genocide. cirkassians were genocided by the russians before armenians or maybe you believe there is not such thing as cirkassian genocide.

[brother]

Winston Churchill quoted that "the allies lost world war 2 is as genuine as the armenian genocide"

:wink:

[Dream_Merchant]

really.. find me that quote!

[brother]

Dream_Merchant wrote: really.. find me that quote!

Its as genuine as the Hitler quote made. :wink: