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[Birkibrisli]

The Turkish writer,Orhan Pamuk,has received his Nobel Prize for Literaure from King Gustav of Sweden,in a lavish ceremony in Stokholm yesterday. The master of ceremonies used Turkish to invite Pamuk to come forth for his presentation. He compared Orhan Pamuk to the likes of Dostoyevski,Joyce and Proust for "turning your native city of Istanbul into an internationally indispensable and magical field of literature".

I think you can proudly stand and take a bow Tufan,for being the compatriot of this great writer. And what a pity that most of the commentators on this news story in Hurriyet's online edition today, were dismissing Pamuk's achievement as politically tainted... :(

[Alexios]

It is often said that Greece eats is own children and i guess Turkey is no different. Instead of scorning his achievement, Turkish circles should grasp the opportunity to applaud Pamuk infront of the whole world as an example of how freedom of expression is in the right truck in the country.Instead, papers like Hurriet provide more reasons to those in the West who believe what they believe about Turkey and its political tradition......

[Birkibrisli]

Alexios wrote: It is often said that Greece eats is own children and i guess Turkey is no different. Instead of scorning his achievement, Turkish circles should grasp the opportunity to applaud Pamuk infront of the whole world as an example of how freedom of expression is in the right truck in the country.Instead, papers like Hurriet provide more reasons to those in the West who believe what they believe about Turkey and its political tradition......

I am just bewildered,Alexios,how many Turks belive Pamuk got his Nobel for saying that 1 Million Armenians and 40 thousand Kurds have been killed in Ottoman Empire/Turkey...This man who decided at age 22 that he was going to be writer,and proceeded to put out a great novel,each breaking new grounds in literature,every 4 years for the past 30 years,got his Nobel for one throw away sentence...This seige mentality is the fundamental obstacle on Turkey's EU path imo. 70% of Turks now believe that Europe hates Turkey with a passion,and is trying to bring back the ghost of the Sevr agreement,when the Allies tried to divide the ottoman Empire between them after WWI...Thank heavens not many people from Turkey get to read what DigenisAkritas writes in this forum.That figure might go up to 99%... :lol:

[zan]

A good few years ago my mum came home and announced that Margaret Thatcher was a man and when I asked her why she thought that she said it was in the newspapers. The newspaper was the SUN and for those that don't know about this paper it is about as basic as it gets. The whole factory was convinced that it was so and those in the know did not let on, for a joke I suppose. The fact that Orhan Pamuk has been tainted by politics on this award means nothing and at the same time everything. The tainting is an actual fact and will go down so, why was he not awarded this accolade before. I knew him as a great writer long ago why not them. I think we can blame some of the intentions of others as well as the tabloid papers but it is silly to blame the majority of the people of Turkey, otherwise when the plumber at work comes in, and because he knows that I will challenge him, states that all the immigrants from eastern Europe are given a house and a good social security income the moment they step foot on British soil would also be true.........

[Birkibrisli]

I guess what distresses me,Zan,is the fact that most people in Turkey seem to be ignorant of the meaning of this award. They can't see what an honour it is,and how positively it reflects on Turkey and the Turkish language and literature.With this award Turkish literature has arrived on the world stage in a big way. We all know that everything in life is political to some degree or other.The Nobel prize in literature has always been given to a writer who has had the courage to challenge his/her society in an intelligent and constructive manner,while reaching high literary targets. The non-democratic mentality which is dominant in Turkey tries to stop people from saying what the majority don't want to hear.Instead of encouraging freedom of speech which stimulates honest disussion and openminded approach to serious national issues. I guess I expect a society who wants to be part of Europe to be more mature and confident about their place in the world,and know how to appreciate their national human treasures...

[Xenos 2Fan]

Birkibrisli wrote: The Turkish writer,Orhan Pamuk,has received his Nobel Prize for Literaure from King Gustav of Sweden,in a lavish ceremony in Stokholm yesterday. The master of ceremonies used Turkish to invite Pamuk to come forth for his presentation. He compared Orhan Pamuk to the likes of Dostoyevski,Joyce and Proust for "turning your native city of Istanbul into an internationally indispensable and magical field of literature".

I think you can proudly stand and take a bow Tufan,for being the compatriot of this great writer. And what a pity that most of the commentators on this news story in Hurriyet's online edition today, were dismissing Pamuk's achievement as politically tainted... :(


I like Pamuk's works. I am currently reading "I am Red". His descriptive style is so developed that when I start reading, the movie begins in my mind. So, I will take a bow Bir as I am proud that my country has produced this great writer.

I also want state further that I do not believe that his achievement was politically tainted. I believe that he really deserved the honor and that he loves Turkey.

The day he won the prize I heard a short interview with him on NPR (National Public Radio). He was asked about the statement he made and he chose not to go into the subject. He said something like: "Today is a very special day for me and my country and I don't want to discuss that matter". (from memory)

As for article 301. I think it's days are numbered and you will soon see it going away. I believe people should be allowed to speak their minds on any subject except when it comes to Ataturk. :twisted:

Now Let's talk about this "Siege Mentality" that you claim we are suffering from Bir. You can trivialise it if you wish but you cannot deny the fact that Turk bashing, as of late, has become trendy. Anyone that has an ax to grind with Turkey is doing their utmost to derail our aspirations so you will excuse us if we are currently behaving in this manner. Our EU aspirations are being hijacked, the goal posts keep getting moved and now the maximalist demand of Cyprus and the EU, namely France and Germany, are causing Turkey to take a divergent path from the west.
What would you have us feel Bir? So let us not pretend that all is well and that we Turks are over-reacting. All I want for Turkey is a fair shake and we are not getting it.

[thebrix]

Xenos 2Fan wrote: I also want state further that I do not believe that his achievement was politically tainted. I believe that he really deserved the honor and that he loves Turkey.

Somehow I think he will be better known, after time passes, than most of the Nobel Laureates in Literature. Erik Axel Karlfeldt or Ivo Andric, anyone?

Reputations fade or are revised: one of the three Nobel Laureates who were employed at my university department over time, Charles Glover Barkla, is recognised as one of the least deserving of all the Physics prize winners.

Things balance out, as a student who did the same course as me, 140 years previously, is considered to have developed into one of the greatest of them all, equal to Einstein and Newton ... !

[zan]

Quote: I also want state further that I do not believe that his achievement was politically tainted. I believe that he really deserved the honor and that he loves Turkey.

I think we are coming at this from two different directions 2Fan. What I meant was that whether we like it or not a political tint has been put on this by the press and by general gossip. What I think you are saying is that it was a political decision or at least politics was involved.

Quote: I guess what distresses me,Zan,is the fact that most people in Turkey seem to be ignorant of the meaning of this award. They can't see what an honour it is,and how positively it reflects on Turkey and the Turkish language and literature.With this award Turkish literature has arrived on the world stage in a big way. We all know that everything in life is political to some degree or other.The Nobel prize in literature has always been given to a writer who has had the courage to challenge his/her society in an intelligent and constructive manner,while reaching high literary targets. The non-democratic mentality which is dominant in Turkey tries to stop people from saying what the majority don't want to hear.Instead of encouraging freedom of speech which stimulates honest disussion and openminded approach to serious national issues. I guess I expect a society who wants to be part of Europe to be more mature and confident about their place in the world,and know how to appreciate their national human treasures...

Bir, I can honestly say that I have no idea who won the last Nobel prize and most of the idiots like me, in the UK and especially in the building trade, would not have a clue. Those sort of things discussed in my trade would probably get a persons head kicked in. You know rather like living in Australia :lol: As for pride of a Turkish writer reaching such heights, well, just wait a while for the hullabaloo to die down and the Turks will probably put him on a pedestal much higher than you and I have put him and will kill anyone that says anything against him :wink:

[Khan]

All Turkish Cypriots should be proud of Pamuk, as i'm sure many are (i certainly am proud that our culture produced such an exceptional writer), not just people from Turkey.

[Birkibrisli]

thebrix wrote: Things balance out, as a student who did the same course as me, 140 years previously, is considered to have developed into one of the greatest of them all, equal to Einstein and Newton ... !

Can you tell us who he/she is,thebrix...Or are you testing our general knowledge? :)

[Birkibrisli]

Zan wrote: Bir, I can honestly say that I have no idea who won the last Nobel prize and most of the idiots like me, in the UK and especially in the building trade, would not have a clue. Those sort of things discussed in my trade would probably get a persons head kicked in. You know rather like living in Australia As for pride of a Turkish writer reaching such heights, well, just wait a while for the hullabaloo to die down and the Turks will probably put him on a pedestal much higher than you and I have put him and will kill anyone that says anything against him

If everyone who worked in the building trade were as enlightened as you,Zan,we would have a different world...

I am not sure time will change things much. President Sezer did not even see it fit to congratulate Pamuk apparently.Not when the prize was announced,and not after the reception...The people will take their cues from him unfortunately. :(

[Birkibrisli]

Khan wrote: All Turkish Cypriots should be proud of Pamuk, as i'm sure many are (i certainly am proud that our culture produced such an exceptional writer), not just people from Turkey.

Since we are not ever likely to have a Cypriot Nobel prize winner in Literature (Turkish or Greek speaking),we might as well take pride in the achievement of our cousins from accross the seas... :wink:

[zan]

Birkibrisli wrote: Zan wrote: Bir, I can honestly say that I have no idea who won the last Nobel prize and most of the idiots like me, in the UK and especially in the building trade, would not have a clue. Those sort of things discussed in my trade would probably get a persons head kicked in. You know rather like living in Australia As for pride of a Turkish writer reaching such heights, well, just wait a while for the hullabaloo to die down and the Turks will probably put him on a pedestal much higher than you and I have put him and will kill anyone that says anything against him

If everyone who worked in the building trade were as enlightened as you,Zan,we would have a different world...

I am not sure time will change things much. President Sezer did not even see it fit to congratulate Pamuk apparently.Not when the prize was announced,and not after the reception...The people will take their cues from him unfortunately. :(


Slowly does it Bir. My sisters opinion of him has changed and it was not done by me, although I have tried to make her read at least one of his books. I can only put it down to the attitude of the Turks must be changing or the sheer pride is more tempting but who cares, we should take it where we can get it. Sometimes those gutless politicians have nowhere else to go either, look at Bush and Blair over Iraq.

[Birkibrisli]

Zan wrote: Slowly does it Bir. My sisters opinion of him has changed and it was not done by me, although I have tried to make her read at least one of his books. I can only put it down to the attitude of the Turks must be changing or the sheer pride is more tempting but who cares, we should take it where we can get it. Sometimes those gutless politicians have nowhere else to go either, look at Bush and Blair over Iraq.


Still,your sister wouldn't be representative of the average person who lives in Turkey...I hope you are right anyway. Try reading some of those hundreds of comments Hurriyet readers make online,after various news stories. It is an eye opener.And these are the more enlightened ones who bother to read newspapers... :(

[thebrix]

Birkibrisli wrote: thebrix wrote: Things balance out, as a student who did the same course as me, 140 years previously, is considered to have developed into one of the greatest of them all, equal to Einstein and Newton ... !

Can you tell us who he/she is,thebrix...Or are you testing our general knowledge? :)

See link in original post - James Clerk Maxwell. (Who is a scandalously, almost unbelievably poorly known figure).