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brother · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus

Talks on Turkey's bid to join the European Union stalled on Monday when EU foreign ministers suspended discussions surrounding key issues.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused the EU of acting unfairly towards Turkey. Here four Turkish readers debate whether they think their country should proceed with its bid.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/6175653.stm

SP · Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 265 Location: Girne

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1974409,00.html

A thoughtful pirce from the Guardian, which suggests that Turkey will never join EU, not now not ever.

pg · Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 1485 Location: Cyprus

SP wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1974409,00.html

A thoughtful pirce from the Guardian, which suggests that Turkey will never join EU, not now not ever.

The whole article is certainly good, but here is some main points:
Quote:
... Turkey waits for church bells that never ring, while Europe, as one French diplomat puts it, is like a man with a mistress he doesn't want to lose, but doesn't want to marry, either. The trouble is that a moment passes, after which it's no longer easy or even possible to say this thing can work without causing pain.

Quote: Bildt says, solemnly and dubiously, that "there is no doubt that Turkey is a part of Europe", but a French politician has put it another way: can we really have a Europe that extends to the borders of Iraq? Many ordinary Europeans seem to know the answer to that better than their rulers.

I think it is quite a clearminded article. Although I hope Turkey will become an EU member - and I also doubt Turkey wants to become an EU member (think it is more that Turks would like Turkey to be like an EU country).

With that in mind, it is tragic to have a government that builds its strategy for a solution to the Cyprus-Turkey problem on Turkish EU membership - or at lest on membership talks proceeding.

At the same time I am not so pessimistic that I think that the end of Turkish EU talks would mean the end of chances for a solution. Consider something else I read in the weekend:

http://www.zaman.com/?bl=columnists&alt=&trh=20061217&hn=39288

Quote: It can be said that Turkish political and bureaucratic elites hold two views regarding the Cyprus issue. According to the first view, which is not expressed openly, the Cyprus problem is a trump card for Turkey to open EU doors.

Namely, if it was not for this problem, the European Union would reject Turkey’s membership. Therefore, resolution of the Cyprus should be interrelated with Turkey’s EU accession. In other words, the problem can and should be resolved after Turkey has become a member of the union. This view is widely shared by Turkish foreign bureaucracy and state elites.

I think I have stated before that I think Turkey is keeping Cyprus as a trump card - and with that in mind, if Turkey's EU talks end then the trump card is no longer worth anything so it might actually be easier for Turkey to let go.

How many times have we heard from Ankara: Why do compromises on Cyprus now, when we are not even sure we will be allowed into the EU...?

s300 · Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:58 am Post subject:

By the time Turkey joins the EU Turkey will be more European than any other EU country. I hope Turkey will be a modern, democratic, stable neighbour with minority rights. -Oh God what a Charade!

Dream_Merchant · Joined: 19 Jun 2006 Posts: 422 Location: Limassol

Garbın afakını sarmışsa çelik zırhlı duvar,
Benim iman dolu göğsüm gibi serhaddim var.
Ulusun, korkma! Nasıl böyle bir imanı boğar.
"Medeniyet!" dediğin tek dişi kalmış canavar?

sounds familiar?

Yes, I see the pro-Western Turkish orientation.. I wonder if the European partners know of this everytime their delegates visit Turkey or vice versa.

For those of you unable to understand Turkish...

The lands of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer.
Recognize your innate strength, my friend! And think: how can this fiery faith ever be killed,
By that battered, single-fanged monster you call "civilization"?

Happens to be the fourth stanza of the Turkish National Anthem...

which is sung everyday in school.........

HOW IN THE WORLD WILL TURKEY EVER BECOME A EUROPEAN COUNTRY IF EVERY PERSON IS BROUGHT UP WITH THE REPETITIVE AND PROUD NOTION THAT EUROPE IS TURKEY'S ANATHEMA AND ENEMY!!!

maybe in 1920 this made sense.. but I have the feeling Turks overwhelmingly still think it does.

Mete · Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 1150 Location: Boston

Quote:
which is sung everyday in school.........

Not so relevant to your point but the Turkish national anthem is sung with the first two stanzas so this part is not sung in schools.

Dream_Merchant · Joined: 19 Jun 2006 Posts: 422 Location: Limassol

ah well, that I did not know. Still, as you admit, the point stands.

Xenos 2Fan · Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:24 am Post subject:

Dream_Merchant wrote: ah well, that I did not know. Still, as you admit, the point stands.

Just goes to tell you that you don't know jack shit about us save the crap you hear from your ancestors.

Dream_Merchant · Joined: 19 Jun 2006 Posts: 422 Location: Limassol

Just goes to prove that I am not as arrogant as you not to accept ignorance. I never said I am a know-it-all. Thats only a picture you have formed in your mind about me ( plus a couple of fangs and sharp teeth probably but that must come from your understanding of the Western world. )

the point still stands, thank you.

city · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3370 Location: Larnaca area

I don't think the point still stands if that stanza is not 'officially' sung.
Same here in Germany - we only sing the first stanza of the national anthem cause the others are outdated and not suitable anymore. And no one cares about them anymore, they are simply ignored.

Dhavlos · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 4697 Location: Birmingham

lol...you should read the other stanzas of the british national anthem! :shock: lol

brother · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus

Dhavlos wrote: lol...you should read the other stanzas of the british national anthem! :shock: lol

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

zan · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 962

MER HAYRENIK OUR FATHERLAND
Verse 1
Mer Hairenik, azad angakh,
Vor abrel eh tareh tar
Ir vor tika art ganchoom eh
Azad, angakh haiasdan. Our fathertherland, free and independent,
That lived from century to century
His children are calling
Free independent Armenia.

Repeat last two lines twice

Verse 2
Aha yeghpair kez mi trosh,
Zor im tzerkov kordzetzi
Keeshernera yes koon chega,
Ardasoonkov luvatzi. Here brother, for you a flag,
That I made with my hands
Nights I didn't sleep,
With tears I washed it.

Repeat last two lines twice

Verse 3
Nayir neran yerek kooynov,
Nuviragan mer nushan,
Togh poghpoghi tushnamoo tem,
Togh meesht bandza Haiastan. Look at it, three colors
It's our gifted symbol.
Let it shine against the enemy.
Let Armenia always be glorius.

Repeat last two lines twice

Verse 4
Amenayn degh maha mi eh
Mart mee ankam bid merni,
Paytz yerani vor ir azki
Azadootyan ga tzohvi. Everywhere death is the same
Everyone dies only once
But lucky is the one
Who is sacrificed for his nation.

Repeat last two lines twice

Armenian national anthem...............About planting trees and making love :lol: What a stupid comment DM.