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Dhavlos · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 4697 Location: Birmingham

what do you mean by this?

Crash Test Dummy · Joined: 25 Sep 2005 Posts: 4911 Location: London(ish)

its Art. each flag represents each community. just like the flags are together and equal on the page the 2 communities should live together equally on the island

Viewpoint · Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 971 Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia

Giorgio wrote: its Art. each flag represents each community. just like the flags are together and equal on the page the 2 communities should live together equally on the island

The thought behind your words is every true Cypriots goal but how do we get there??? our leaders do not seem to be taking the necessary steps towards this goal.

cannedmoose · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:26 pm Post subject:

Leaders need to be pushed by civil society VP. Unless the people of Cyprus start telling their leaders they want a solution and that both sides need to compromise on their 'red lines' then the politicians won't see any need to negotiate. I'm not saying the politicians as human beings like things the way they are, but they do have a vested interest in the status quo and will be loath to see those interests disrupted unless they know they will be rewarded in the new environment. This may sound cynical, but it seems to be how many politicians in Cyprus work. Unless they feel that their seat in parliament is at risk, they won't have an interest in finding solutions. Sadly, the absence of what I would call a civil society independent of vested interests does not bode well for such a groundswell of support.

Turkey (( * · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 32 Location: Turkey/Switzerland

Giorgio wrote:

Don't you think this would be a very good flag of the Republic?? I mean no offense, they just look so good together!!

cannedmoose · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject:

I think the attempt by the UN competition to steer flags away from anything identifiably Greek or Turkish was missing the point and trying to 'ignore the elephant standing in the garden'. I feel that any future flag of Cyprus has to emphasis the dual Greek and Turkish heritage of the island and their fusion into one territory. I also think that the dirge that they came up with as a new national anthem was terrible and failed to reflect Cyprus' history. What Cyprus needs is a national anthem like that of the new South African one, which is sung in both languages and emphasises the coming together of two peoples into one nation.

Perhaps at some point, when things look more positive, we can have a competition on here to design such things.

Turkey (( * · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 32 Location: Turkey/Switzerland

cannedmoose wrote: IPerhaps at some point, when things look more positive, we can have a competition on here to design such things.

I hope so.

Dhavlos · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 4697 Location: Birmingham

Moose, i agree,

i think that the national anthem should have a verse in both languages, which can be sung by both communities...i know people talk about the 80/20 population so 50/50 in the anthem doesnt fit, but for gods sake, it is such a petty thing to worry about...if anything, it is easier to change the antherm in the future rather than a rushed constitution(ie Annan Plan).

however im not sure the representation of greek/turkish is such a good idea for the flag, especially if we want to think about nation-building. A better idea may be a 'neutral' flag, so that people could use this as a symbol for nationbuilding, as a Cypriot nation, rather than greek and turkish nations under an umbrella of 'the island of cyprus'....it may be easier to build relations if people beleive thay have a common 'cypriotness' rather than be two differnet peoples only connected by the island they share.......do you see what i mean?

Turkey (( * · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 32 Location: Turkey/Switzerland

Yeah, Dhavlos, you are right about the flag actually, there should be a unique one rather than one Turkish influenced and one Greek influenced. But I think it would be rather a good idea to try to nationalise the Cypriots so they would stick together. This would, as a result, create a spark for a joined government where there are Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots. The hard thing here will be the blocks that Turkey and Greece will place in the route to peace and friendship of the two communities.

cannedmoose · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:27 pm Post subject:

The problem is that 'Cypriotness' has never really existed. Both communities have always defined themselves as different, whether it was culturally, religiously or nationally different. I think if we try to ignore the fact that Cypriots of both communities DO identify with their respective 'nations', we're ignoring the root cause of the division. However, by incorporating national symbols into a common flag, we'd be reflecting these belongings and illustrating that in Cyprus, the two belong together.

Dhavlos · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 4697 Location: Birmingham

Turkey CC* i agree with you,

Moose said:
Quote: The problem is that 'Cypriotness' has never really existed. Both communities have always defined themselves as different, whether it was culturally, religiously or nationally different.

this is what needs to be changed if some sort of solution becomes workable. People need to see each other not as of turkish or greek origin, but that they belong to the island of cyprus and that the cultural differences are not something divisive, but to embrace as part of cypriot culture.

The similarities between cypriots is probably more profound than the obvious differences.

I do see where you come from moose, but in the long term, the idea of 'two nations, one country', i dont think, will work. It will again become divisive and we may be back where we started in 20/30/40 years time. I am not supporting however, aggressive implimentation of 'cypriotness' and suppression of other cultures, if you see what i mean.

Viewpoint · Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 971 Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia

I personally feel the Cypriotness issue will only develop over time, it cannot be forced. As for our image to be honest I like the island on the flag, this can be developed further using blue and red intertwining braid the symbol of unity of the 2 communites. The national anthem should be in both languages and emphasise peace and harmony towards each other.

Turkey (( * · Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 32 Location: Turkey/Switzerland

Cypriotness will NOT be forced, it will just be encouraged by different means without using or exerting force.

brother · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 8920 Location: London/Cyprus

Quote: I personally feel the Cypriotness issue will only develop over time, it cannot be forced. As for our image to be honest I like the island on the flag, this can be developed further using blue and red intertwining braid the symbol of unity of the 2 communites. The national anthem should be in both languages and emphasise peace and harmony towards each other.

My sentiments exactley, and maybe we can have a competition to make the new national anthem for cyprus.