www.talkcyprus.org

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

I am prepared to have a debate with anyone who is prepared to take up the challenge of disproving my allegations against Mohammed. We will begin on a certain point, I will bring up scriptural evidence (which I can source straight from the Quran - I will also bring up historical and contemporary abuse of human rights by Muslims to prove my case that Islam is a dangerous cult. So, without further ado

I accuse Muhammad of being:

- A Rapist
- A Pedophile (had sex with a child)
- An Assassin
- A Mass Murderer
- A Ruthless Torturer
- A Terrorist ("I have been made victorious through terror")
- A Lecher
- A Misogynist
- A Narcissist
- A Thief and Plunderer
- A Cult Leader
- Mentally Deranged (was paranoid, heard voices, hallucinated of seeing jinns, Satan and angels, used to think he had sex with his wives when he did not, suffered from depression and had suicidal tendencies).

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

http://www.prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Islams_Terrorist_Dogma_in_Muhammads_Own_Words.Islam

The best selling Craig Winn book, 'Prophet of Doom' is now available in audio format in the above link. Muslims must listen to it to see why everyone is laughing at Islam and why they should be embarrassed.

stavrizatz · Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:34 am Post subject:

No one seems to disagree with you as no-one reacts to what you said.

Personally I am not religious and don't give a shit about islam or cristianity (culture), I don't care who the hell Mohamed was, all I care is what this religion teach and both cristianity and islam teach some good values.

thebrix · Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:41 am Post subject:

stavrizatz wrote: No one seems to disagree with you as no-one reacts to what you said.

Personally I am not religious and don't give a shit about islam or cristianity (culture), I don't care who the hell Mohamed was, all I care is what this religion teach and both cristianity and islam teach some good values.

I wonderered "who is Craig Winn" then read the pieces and realised they were of the same breed as the "443 contradictions in the Bible" books that used to be advertised in national newspapers (! - but what happened to them? Presumably migrated to the Internet) ... the people who write them think that allegory has something to do with peanuts ;)

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

thebrix wrote: stavrizatz wrote: No one seems to disagree with you as no-one reacts to what you said.

Personally I am not religious and don't give a shit about islam or cristianity (culture), I don't care who the hell Mohamed was, all I care is what this religion teach and both cristianity and islam teach some good values.

I wonderered "who is Craig Winn" then read the pieces and realised they were of the same breed as the "443 contradictions in the Bible" books that used to be advertised in national newspapers (! - but what happened to them? Presumably migrated to the Internet) ... the people who write them think that allegory has something to do with peanuts ;)

thebrix, does that mean you are prepared to debate the issue with me?

Mohammed was a terrorist, right to the bitter end.

cypezokyli · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 2344

stavrizatz wrote: No one seems to disagree with you as no-one reacts to what you said.

thats actually a big mis-conception.
DA is well known to the members of the forum (he s been here before with all kinds of greek heroic names :roll: ) , so they just dont bother to answer to him any more....even though surprisingly this time , he is actually having a couple worth-reading discussions....

he has this anti-islam fixation , even though we told him 1000 times that it has nothing to do with the cyppro. moreover the Turkish Cypriots are in general either not religious or very open minded when it comes to religion (something that i also told him 1000 times - he just doesnot want to accept it).

DA obviously has read a number of specific books , who say exactly the same thing , he does not seem to care in reading a book with the opposite opinion , and he seems to be well "specialized" in a topic that doesnot interest any cypriot.

i bet there are 100s of forums out there where he can have a debate about things like that. i mean if i wanted to have a serious discussion about quanto physics , i would search a forum with people who have specific knowledge. and yes ofcource we discuss other things in this forum , but in general we discuss them as non-experts.

Quote:
Personally I am not religious and don't give a shit about islam or cristianity (culture), I don't care who the hell Mohamed was, all I care is what this religion teach and both cristianity and islam teach some good values.

I agree :wink:

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

cypezokyli wrote:
he has this anti-islam fixation , even though we told him 1000 times that it has nothing to do with the cyppro. moreover the Turkish Cypriots are in general either not religious or very open minded when it comes to religion (something that i also told him 1000 times - he just doesnot want to accept it).

If the Turks are so liberal religiously, how do you explain the fact their nation was built on the extermination and ethnic cleansing of Christian Assyrians, Greeks and Armenians from inside the borders of what is today Turkey? How do you explain the destruction of Churches in the occupied areas justified by occupied area 'Ministers' because they say it is an 'Ottoman Custom'. I am going to write to His Excellency Tassos Papadopoulos today and explain my grievances with this state of affairs, I do not think Greeks want to continue to pay taxation money to fund mosques as well as upkeep them (Mosques in many cases have turned into virtual terrorist training centers with Saudi involvement, such as Finsbury Park).

Quote: DA obviously has read a number of specific books , who say exactly the same thing , he does not seem to care in reading a book with the opposite opinion , and he seems to be well "specialized" in a topic that doesnot interest any cypriot.

I have read the Quran, revealed by the delusional Mohammed and his 'Allah' (a God stolen from Arab Paganism, Allah was originally the moon God of their pantheon). The issue of Cyprus is based around religion in my opinion, the years of hatred were fermented by the Ottomans brutal treatment of 'dhimmi' non-Muslims and continues to this day in the occupied areas, as well as in the occupied areas of Constantinople where there are continual bomb threats against the Patriarch and fully supported by Gay Wolves. Threats to Greece must be crushed totally and utterly, the Aegean is a Greek lake, there can be no compromise over this issue. The occupied areas must submit to become part of the Republic, there can be no compromise.

I repeat, there can be no compromise. Either you are a patriotic Greek, or you will face deportation to the Reich.

Some quotes from the Quran:

Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."

Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, ‘Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

cypezokyli · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 2344

how much did you read about Turkish Cypriots ?
dont mix them with turkey.

turkey has a ruling mild-islamist party.
there was always a minor islamic party since the beggining of turkish democracy.

Turkish Cypriots dont have such a thing.
the topic of the headscarf (the intrumentalisation of secularism vs islamism) is completely irrelevant for Turkish Cypriot political system. concequently , your quoting of the quran is completely senseless... :roll:

cannedmoose · Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject:

No-one responds to this person because we all know his motives in this. He is not here for a full and frank debate on the Qu'ran or Islam, he is simply here to lecture on his (mis)interpretation of them.

His view is one based on mistrust and fear and consequently hatred of Islam and anyone who practices it. As a result, it is pointless in debating the issue with him, because a debate is a mutual dialogue in which the views of both sides have equal weight. In this person's mind, any view contrary to his own is worthless.

He is here simply to provoke hatred, misunderstanding and antagonism. Therefore, I for one refuse to debate any of this with him. His ultimate motive is to present anyone who is a Muslim as a radical barbarian bent on the destruction of anyone who doesn't bow to Allah.

As others have said, the people of Northern Cyprus are about as areligious as any group I've come across. I've visited a couple of mosques in the north at the time of evening prayers and they were virtually deserted. So, this whole argument is almost irrelevant when it comes to debating Cyprus. The sooner this hateful person is banned from this forum for good, the sooner we don't have to confront the nonsense he peddles.

zan · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 962

You know I actually thought this guy was a really intelligent man but all I see know is that he is a mine of information without the understanding. Encyclopedic knowledge text book understanding of the world. A man that believes that the natural order of things and a iffy god will judge us on death and then he puts Hitler as one of his heroes :lol:

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

cannedmoose wrote: No-one responds to this person because we all know his motives in this. He is not here for a full and frank debate on the Qu'ran or Islam, he is simply here to lecture on his (mis)interpretation of them.

His view is one based on mistrust and fear and consequently hatred of Islam and anyone who practices it. As a result, it is pointless in debating the issue with him, because a debate is a mutual dialogue in which the views of both sides have equal weight. In this person's mind, any view contrary to his own is worthless.

He is here simply to provoke hatred, misunderstanding and antagonism. Therefore, I for one refuse to debate any of this with him. His ultimate motive is to present anyone who is a Muslim as a radical barbarian bent on the destruction of anyone who doesn't bow to Allah.

As others have said, the people of Northern Cyprus are about as areligious as any group I've come across. I've visited a couple of mosques in the north at the time of evening prayers and they were virtually deserted. So, this whole argument is almost irrelevant when it comes to debating Cyprus. The sooner this hateful person is banned from this forum for good, the sooner we don't have to confront the nonsense he peddles.

Ok Moose, nice one for debating my points, lets point out some more hatemongering in the Quran shall we? There are hundreds of stories of assassinations, genocide, torture, raids, rapes, lootings, and all sorts of crimes of Muhammad that are recorded in the authentic Islamic annals. Political correctness is a cult, and the politically correct people can be just as vicious as any cultist, you Moose are being Politically Correct, you are repeating the Blair/Cameron mantra on Islam, that is, that Islam is an inherently 'peaceful' faith and that it differs in no way to other Monotheistic religions, this is patently absurd, take the Bible for example, the Bible is a book of fables, in terms of the Old Testament written to boost the confidence of a people in captivity, but at least Christian Liberals have some scriptural justification for their adjoining of Christianity and Modern Liberalism as I pointed out in my debate with Chapfallen - Islam has no such scriptural justification, and I challenge you to prove me otherwise other than throw around ridiculous ad-hominem attacks against me to try and justify your point. But I stand by my convictions, the problems of Cyprus are rooted in religion, maybe there is not as much of an outward face of this factor today as there was 3 centuries ago, it is still the reason for the conflict in the first place if you trace it back to 1571. As for Islamic 'peacefulness' this is nothing but a sham.

When Muslims say "peace", it means you submit to us so we let you live. Otherwise we will kill you.

When Muslims say we fight oppression, they mean we fight disbelief. You become an oppressor the moment you say I don’t want to be a Muslim.

When they say Islam does not allow killing innocent people, they mean those who have not yet rejected Islam. Once you reject their d’awa you are no more innocent.

When Muslims say Islam fights corruption, they mean freedom of thought. This is the greatest corruption as far as Islam is concerned.

When Muslims talk about negotiations and treaties, they mean we pull wool over your eyes so we can buy time while you look the other way and when we are stronger we will break all our treaties just as Muhammad did at Hudaibiyyh and later ratified it in the Sura Deliverance where Allah delivered him from all obligation toward those with whom he had made a treaty.

When Muslims say Islam teaches piety, it does not mean at all what you think piety means. Piety in Islam means do what is halal (permitted) and avoid what is haram (forbidden). These have nothing to do with right and wrong. For example, homosexuality is haram but pedophilia is halal. Masturbation is haram but killing the non-Muslims is halal. wine is haram but stoning is halal. For a woman, exposing her hair in public is haram but for her husband beating her is halal. The concept of Islamic piety defies human logic. A pious Muslim is not necessarily a good person by our definition. A pious Muslim is one who follows Muhammad, he could be a terrorist, a child molester, a wife beater or a liar. As long as he lies to non-believers, he is pious. As long as he says his obligatory prayers, fasts, his beard and his dress are the right size, he enters into toilet with the correct foot and follows all the rituals meticulously, he is pious.

It is my firm belief that Islam is an ideology of hatred, it wants to bend the world to it's will, I direct you to an email a famous professor once sent me, when we were debating the causes of the Byzantine-Arab, Arab-Persian wars of the mid 7th century (I will remove his name for obvious reasons though):

"Even if we assume (for the sake of argument)
that it's true, the idea that the Muslim attacks on
Byzantium and Persia (and other Arabs) were "defensive" is
impossible. The early Muslim Arabs regarded the world as
divided into the "land of Islam" and the "land of war"
(i.e., the region where they had a duty to fight holy war
against non-Muslims), and they consistently refused to make
peace with non-Muslims; their treaties were only for
temporary "truces," interrupting a war that was in principle
to last until all non-Muslims were conquered."

And from the great Ali Sina as well:

"Muslims are not going to integrate. They are not going to adopt the Western culture and values. On the contrary, they will destroy the democracies and will establish their own barbaric way of life by force. If the Europeans think Muslim immigrants will one day work to pay for their pensions, they are in for a big surprise. Muslims can only receive but they will not give back. To give back is not in their ethos, it is not in their character. The whole concept of dhimmitude is that non-Muslims support Muslims and not the other way round. Today, a great number of Muslims in European countries are maintained by the government. Muslims see this as their right. It is the Jizyah that the non-Muslims are supposed to pay. They will never return the favor."

- Ali Sina, Faithfreedom.org

Oh and Zan, it's a shame that an agnostic such as yourself does not adopt a more sceptical tone towards the evil that is contained with the Quran. You are quite prepared to clash sword over a Deistic interpretation of God, but you see fit to defend the wrathful, vengeful 'Allah' of Mohammed's creation for some reason, a God infinitely worse than any biblical or pagan interpretation of a 'satan'.

zan · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 962

Quote: Oh and Zan, it's a shame that an agnostic such as yourself does not adopt a more sceptical tone towards the evil that is contained with the Quran. You are quite prepared to clash sword over a Deistic interpretation of God, but you see fit to defend the wrathful, vengeful 'Allah' of Mohammed's creation for some reason, a God infinitely worse than any biblical or pagan interpretation of a 'satan'.

I am not an agnostic or an atheist or any other label you wish to stick on me I have no beliefs in any religion or any religious denials, but most importantly that I have no need in my "soul" :lol: for these weaknesses. I feel "enlightened" by my freedom of these trappings and do not want to make them into another religious virtue to cover up my lack of faith. What you are is a coward. You have thrown off all the trappings of religion, or so you say, but still hold on to god for safety. You believe that that and the fact you are Greek is your ticket through the pearly gates where you and Hitler can sit and talk about how two civilized nations have colonised heaven and the road to enlightenment and the rest will rot in hell forever. I hope your note to Santa was sent off on time too...... :lol:

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

zan wrote: Quote: Oh and Zan, it's a shame that an agnostic such as yourself does not adopt a more sceptical tone towards the evil that is contained with the Quran. You are quite prepared to clash sword over a Deistic interpretation of God, but you see fit to defend the wrathful, vengeful 'Allah' of Mohammed's creation for some reason, a God infinitely worse than any biblical or pagan interpretation of a 'satan'.

I am not an agnostic or an atheist or any other label you wish to stick on me I have no beliefs in any religion or any religious denials, but most importantly that I have no need in my "soul" :lol: for these weaknesses. I feel "enlightened" by my freedom of these trappings and do not want to make them into another religious virtue to cover up my lack of faith. What you are is a coward. You have thrown off all the trappings of religion, or so you say, but still hold on to god for safety. You believe that that and the fact you are Greek is your ticket through the pearly gates where you and Hitler can sit and talk about how two civilized nations have colonised heaven and the road to enlightenment and the rest will rot in hell forever. I hope your note to Santa was sent off on time too...... :lol:
I believe the concept of a hell is illogical, judgment need not follow with a hell. So if there is a heaven, then Hitler will be there I think.

cannedmoose · Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:20 pm Post subject:

Again DA, all you do is preach... you are as bad as those you seem to despise so much. There is no point debating with you because you show no willingness or desire to actually listen. You have your views and you're welcome to them. It's the fact that you don't realise that you are also a zealot that I find so amusing.

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

cannedmoose wrote: Again DA, all you do is preach... you are as bad as those you seem to despise so much. There is no point debating with you because you show no willingness or desire to actually listen. You have your views and you're welcome to them. It's the fact that you don't realise that you are also a zealot that I find so amusing.

Moose, I have no problem with any belief except Islam, I have no problem with people practicising Hinduism, Neo-Paganism, Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism or whatever - I have a problem with Islam for the reasons I have mentioned, if you want to reform Islam you are going to have to change what is in the Quran, because what is in the Quran is not that good I am afraid. Here are some quotes from Quran and Hadiths (with appropriate references given for Bk. Number and Verse):

Tabari IX:69 "Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us."

Tabari VIII:141 "The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!'"

Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive."

Ishaq:489 "Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing."

Qur'an 2:191 "And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter."

Qur'an 33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering."

Bukhari:V4B52N270 "Allah's Messenger said, ‘Who is ready to kill Ashraf? He has said injurious things about Allah and His Apostle.' Maslama got up saying, ‘Would you like me to kill him?' The Prophet proclaimed, ‘Yes.' Maslama said, ‘Then allow me to lie so that I will be able to deceive him.' Muhammad said, ‘You may do so.'"

Ishaq:368 "Ka'b's body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad's order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Traveling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet."

Ishaq:368 "We carried Ka'b's head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah's enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf's head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah's Cause. Our attack upon Allah's enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.'"