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stavrizatz

Just to get away from politics I decided to post this alternative topic that brought numerous arguments between myself and my friends. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed writing it.

Homosexuality is becoming more and more accepted by our society, especially after the sexual revolution of the western counties in the 60s and 70s. The sexual revolution refers to the trend of equalising sexual behaviour between heterosexual and homosexual, bisexual or alternative sexual oriented people. However even the sexual revolution sets its limits and some other alternative categories of sexuality are left out. For example what do we call the women who is attracted to transexual males and is her sexual orientation consider normal! So what are the limits of normality.

By the vast majority of people certain categories of sexual orientation are consider sickening where others are not and society sets some unwritten rules of sexual behaviour. In addition the norms of society are affected by the dogma of religions where in most cases monogamic heterosexuality is consider the only ethical type of relationship.

Unattached polygamy:
Even so religions impact greatly cultural norms; the impact of religion seems little concerding pre-marriage agamy as the extreme majority of people had sex before marriage. In Cyprus most most teenagers from Nicosia lose their virginity the summers in Ayia Napa, often with random British tourist girls or maybe in the brothels of ‘Odos Soutsou’ and those from Limassol in the brothels of ‘Platia Iroon’! As for the females, their virginity is lost mainly through high school relationships. The majority of those teenagers have religious faith, despite the fact that they engaged in sexual activity before marriage. I wonder what are the culrural habits regarding sexual activity in the North and how islam impacts their sexuality.

Homosexuality:
Homosexuality is generally accepted and in Cyprus the sexual revolution arrived in the early 90s. Debates around the world today are not concerning the acceptance of homosexuality but the debate is same-sex marriages. The constitution court of South Africa said that it is uncostitutional to prevent safe sex marriages where in Nigeria the parliament took a step in the opposite direction stating that “same-sex marriages are un-African”. Czech Republic refuse to allow same-sex marriage and adoption but it does give access to public health for same-sex couples (not married couples). In Venezuela there is a sexual revolution within a political revolution, where the gay community is campaigning for equal rights between heterosexual couples and same-sex couples. Well friends of mine argue that marriage is between any two people who are in love and therefore homosexual couples should have the right do get married. But what if there are more than two people in love?

Poly-amory:
Poly-amory refers to polygamic relationships. Relationships between more that two partners, etheir homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual. I personally went to poly-amory workshop called the ethical slut. The lady who host the workshop said that “I am a slut by definition (a female that has frequently casual sex) but I am an ethical slut, I let my partners know of my intentions and sexual orientation”
I asked her a question “What if you fell in love with a monogamist person, and he respects your point of view on sexuality but he is only interested in a commited relationship, then what? Whould you sacrifise your addiction to sex for someone that you love or? She took a few seconds to reply and she said it happened to her before and she stayed monogamist for a period of time but eventually she broke up. Someone else asked the question - What happens in the situation where you want to have a family? In nature kids cannot be made by more that two people. She replied that many people in today’s society are divorced and are forced to raise their children with partners other than the original parents.

Well, friends of mine seem to accept other sexualities other than the traditional by cultural beliefs but when in a conversation I said that I enjoy it when my girlfriend is fisting my arse, everyone froze and said – yiiiiac, disgusting! (I was just joking ofcourse) but why that was considered disgusting at the time that they all agreed that homosexuality was ok! What about pedophilia and zoophilia… where do we draw the line if we draw it at all!!!

erolz · Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 4195 Location: Kyrenia / Girne

For me personally the only morality issue is that of consent.

Neither children or animals can give informed consent and thus seuxal practises involving either is moraly wrong imo. Outside of that if human adults consent , then whatever they wish to do in private is nothing to do with me and I see no moral issues.

stavrizatz · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject:

I agree with you Erolz but what is strange in these circumstances is that pedophilia is illegal where zoophilia is not and it is consider a crime when an overage has a sexual relationship with an underage. What happens to marginal age difference... I don't know but I think for example if a 20 year old has sex with a 17 year old I think it is ok but is it considered illegal?

cypezokyli · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 2344

you opened a number of different topics at once stavrisatz.

1. paedophilia has a very good reason to be illegal (actually it is the only crime that i wouldnt mind the death penalty to be honest). as for the margins... i think that a margin is always set having in mind a small variance from it. yes it might be that some teenagers are mature enough and have sex at 15 , 16, 17 , but if you make it legal at 15 then the margin will be again debated : so whats wrong to have sex with a 12 year old ? (well it is already kind of wrong)

2. i never thought about zoophilia to be honest!!! (what a simple mind i have some times :lol: ) i think the case its clear. it should be outlawed since you can never get the consent of the animal to participate :shock: :lol:

Quote: In Cyprus most most teenagers from Nicosia lose their virginity the summers in Ayia Napa, often with random British tourist girls or maybe in the brothels of ‘Odos Soutsou’ and those from Limassol in the brothels of ‘Platia Iroon’!
sex with tourist girls is one of the greatest myths between cypriot male teenagers (and men) . :lol: :lol:

Quote: Unattached polygamy:
Even so religions impact greatly cultural norms; the impact of religion seems little concerding pre-marriage agamy as the extreme majority of people had sex before marriage. In Cyprus most most teenagers from Nicosia lose their virginity the summers in Ayia Napa, often with random British tourist girls or maybe in the brothels of ‘Odos Soutsou’ and those from Limassol in the brothels of ‘Platia Iroon’! As for the females, their virginity is lost mainly through high school relationships. The majority of those teenagers have religious faith, despite the fact that they engaged in sexual activity before marriage. I wonder what are the culrural habits regarding sexual activity in the North and how islam impacts their sexuality.
highschool kids are nowadays far more progressive than the ones a decade ago. theres nothing that religion can do to stand against the power of the media.
the problem in cyp, is that parents are so conservative and have so many tabboos that they hardly ever speak with their kids about sex (even for important things like protection). parents (especially when it comes to their daughters ) prefer not to know ! that attitudes forces in essense teenagers to lie, and at the end of the day everybody is happy. (the same works with drugs another problem thats on the rise both in the south and in the north. )

Quote: Homosexuality:
Homosexuality is generally accepted and in Cyprus the sexual revolution arrived in the early 90s. Debates around the world today are not concerning the acceptance of homosexuality but the debate is same-sex marriages. The constitution court of South Africa said that it is uncostitutional to prevent safe sex marriages where in Nigeria the parliament took a step in the opposite direction stating that “same-sex marriages are un-African”. Czech Republic refuse to allow same-sex marriage and adoption but it does give access to public health for same-sex couples (not married couples). In Venezuela there is a sexual revolution within a political revolution, where the gay community is campaigning for equal rights between heterosexual couples and same-sex couples. Well friends of mine argue that marriage is between any two people who are in love and therefore homosexual couples should have the right do get married. But what if there are more than two people in love?

homosexuality is ofcource not illegal in cyp, but the society is way far from accepting it. again too conservative society.
no problem for gays to marry.
i am still undecided about them adopting children.
i never studied the topic but i believe that there are sound reasons to have a mother and a father. one can always argue , but what is better for a kid : a bad "normal" family or a good gay one? this is irrelevant. bc we are not comparing the same thing
the same works for more than two people marriage !!! (another thing i never thought of !! ) well if they want to have it why not. even though to be honest i dont understand the point. they are so liberal as to have multiple partners but still so conservative as to want to marry ?!
again, i am not sure if it would be good for a kid to grow up in a family with more mothers and fathers

Quote: Poly-amory:
Poly-amory refers to polygamic relationships. Relationships between more that two partners, etheir homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual. I personally went to poly-amory workshop called the ethical slut. The lady who host the workshop said that “I am a slut by definition (a female that has frequently casual sex) but I am an ethical slut, I let my partners know of my intentions and sexual orientation”
I asked her a question “What if you fell in love with a monogamist person, and he respects your point of view on sexuality but he is only interested in a commited relationship, then what? Whould you sacrifise your addiction to sex for someone that you love or? She took a few seconds to reply and she said it happened to her before and she stayed monogamist for a period of time but eventually she broke up. Someone else asked the question - What happens in the situation where you want to have a family? In nature kids cannot be made by more that two people. She replied that many people in today’s society are divorced and are forced to raise their children with partners other than the original parents.

i think that poly-whatever is no problem , but sth that should be discussed and agreed from the couple from the very beggining. if they have no problem with separating love and sex, they may as well enjoy it. if not, all other kinds of emotions are included such as jealousy, loss of trust, betrayal etc! when these start then it is not a relationship any more.
Quote:

Well, friends of mine seem to accept other sexualities other than the traditional by cultural beliefs but when in a conversation I said that I enjoy it when my girlfriend is fisting my arse, everyone froze and said – yiiiiac, disgusting! (I was just joking ofcourse) but why that was considered disgusting at the time that they all agreed that homosexuality was ok! What about pedophilia and zoophilia… where do we draw the line if we draw it at all!!

well there are many disgusting ( a word which is strictly matter of taste) things that people can do to each other sex wise.
where we draw the legal (and not the taste) line, is when one of the two involved has not given his / her concent for the sexual act (then you have rape, child abusers , animal-whateverists..)

Leon · Joined: 28 Aug 2005 Posts: 240 Location: England

I agree with the above posts. I am pro-polygamy, as well as pro-same sex marriage. However, what is the age that it can be considered 'acceptable' to consent to sex/marriage? What is a child?

Leon.

zan · Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 962

Quote: highschool kids are nowadays far more progressive than the ones a decade ago. theres nothing that religion can do to stand against the power of the media.
the problem in cyp, is that parents are so conservative and have so many tabboos that they hardly ever speak with their kids about sex (even for important things like protection). parents (especially when it comes to their daughters ) prefer not to know ! that attitudes forces in essense teenagers to lie, and at the end of the day everybody is happy. (the same works with drugs another problem thats on the rise both in the south and in the north. )

But what do the parents think when a teenager takes home a boy/girl and says they want to get married when they are sixteen say, they hit the roof and scream at you for wanting to ruin your life. It seems in their heads sex is safer than marriage and can be done at a younger age.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

thebrix · Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject:

stavrizatz wrote: I agree with you Erolz but what is strange in these circumstances is that pedophilia is illegal where zoophilia is not and it is consider a crime when an overage has a sexual relationship with an underage. What happens to marginal age difference... I don't know but I think for example if a 20 year old has sex with a 17 year old I think it is ok but is it considered illegal?

Here we go with thebrix's consensual formula ;)

I suggest that, if a1 is the age of the older person and a2 is that of the younger, then if

a1 > a2 + sqrt(a2)

there is a crime.

Here 17 + sqrt(17) = 21.12 so no crime, and 16 + sqrt(16) = 20 so no crime. But 15 + sqrt(15) = 18.87 so a crime, which I think is reasonable!

This is actually not a joke - an absolute age of consent of 16 is about in as great disrepute as any number could be (it is, ahem, widely flouted) and you have an excellent point regarding relative ages :D

city · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3370 Location: Larnaca area

erolz wrote: For me personally the only morality issue is that of consent.

Neither children or animals can give informed consent and thus seuxal practises involving either is moraly wrong imo. Outside of that if human adults consent , then whatever they wish to do in private is nothing to do with me and I see no moral issues.

I completely agree with erolz.
The main thing is that the individuals agree. Religion or whatever else should not have any influence.
But unfortunately we all know that this is not always the case. There are still the rules of the church and also the norms of society regarding marriage and sex that are forced on individuals.

Also we can witness a change of opinion over time. For example in ancient societies pedophilia with young boys was sort of common practice. This is unthinkable today.

stavrizatz · Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject:

Now I'll give my opinion I formed so far on te issues that I raised earlier.

Sexuality I believe is something both genetic and something that evolvs as people grow. Right or wrong is a matter of opinion which is greatly influenced by culture. If pedofilia was culturally acceptable today then probably people will just do it and not consider it disgusting neither illegal. However as Erolz said earlier "Neither children or animals can give informed consent and thus sexual practises involving either is moraly wrong imo" and I agree with him and to extent, imposing sexuality to someone and forcing sexual activity with anyone is something that I strongly disagree. Eg. imposing to a gay person to be straight or to a women to get with some man or even marry him etc.

Marriage
Who said that a man gets married to a women or any two people in love get married or any group of people can get or a man can get married to three women or or or.
Marriage is something invented by people where a man is commited to a relationship with a woman and are announced as husband and wife. Changing cultures and accepting homosexuality or whatever else doesn't mean that these people necessarilly can become married. As long as two or more people are accepted the way they are then why is there a necessity to get married. These people can be de facto and it is the same thing.

Culture do not change day by day, and the alternative sexuality communities have to accept that and before demanding rights of marriage and adopting, firstly there should be an educational campaign against descrimination, homophobia and that way the change will come smoother.

And really some bizzare fetishes, at least culturally seen as bizzare, can be kept private.

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

Marriage is for a heterosexual couple.

Xenos 2Fan · Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject:

DigenisAkritas wrote: Marriage is for two heterosexual couples.

Now he wants to put 4 people in a marriage. What next? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

Xenos 2Fan wrote: DigenisAkritas wrote: Marriage is for two heterosexual couples.

Now he wants to put 4 people in a marriage. What next? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You know what i meant 2fan, i just made a typo.

erolz · Joined: 11 Aug 2005 Posts: 4195 Location: Kyrenia / Girne

Xenos 2Fan wrote: DigenisAkritas wrote: Marriage is for two heterosexual couples.

Now he wants to put 4 people in a marriage. What next? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ahh you beat me to it 2fan :)

Xenos 2Fan · Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject:

DigenisAkritas wrote: Xenos 2Fan wrote: DigenisAkritas wrote: Marriage is for two heterosexual couples.

Now he wants to put 4 people in a marriage. What next? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You know what i meant 2fan, i just made a typo.

Kinda like your entire existance. Right Sparky? :lol: :lol:

DigenisAkritas · Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

Xenos 2Fan wrote: DigenisAkritas wrote: Xenos 2Fan wrote: DigenisAkritas wrote: Marriage is for two heterosexual couples.

Now he wants to put 4 people in a marriage. What next? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You know what i meant 2fan, i just made a typo.

Kinda like your entire existance. Right Sparky? :lol: :lol:

That doesn't make any sense. How can someones existence be down to a typo?