www.talkcyprus.org

[brother]

Armenia has been trying to make the world believe that the Ottomans committed a so called genocide and yet they practice the most severe form of terrorism and have assasinated many Turks since the 70's and probably before.

These are Turks they have murdered

January 27, 1973 Santa Barbara Mehmet Baydar Turkish Consul General
January 27, 1973 Santa Barbara Bahadir Demir Turkish Consul
October 22, 1975 Vienna Danis Tunaligil Turkish Ambassador
October 24, 1975 Paris Ismail Erez Turkish Ambassador
October 24, 1975 Paris Talip Yener Turkish Ambassador's chauffeur
February 16, 1976 Beirut Oktar Cirit First Secretary in Turkish Embassy
June 9, 1977 Rome Taha Carim Turkish Ambassador
June 2, 1978 Madrid Necla Kuneralp Turkish Ambassador's wife
June 2, 1978 Madrid Besir Balcioglu Retired Turkish Ambassador
October 12, 1979 The Hague Ahmet Benler Turkish Ambassador's son
December 22, 1979 Paris Yilmaz Colpan Turkish Tourism Attache
July 31, 1980 Athens Galip Ozmen Turkish Admimistrative Attache
July 31, 1980 Athens Neslihan Ozmen Turkish Administrative Attache's daughter
December 17, 1980 Sydney Sarik Ariyak Turkish Consul General
December 17, 1980 Sydney Engin Sever Turkish Consul General's bodyguard
March 4, 1981 Paris Resat Morali Turkish Labour Attache
March 4, 1981 Paris Tecelli Ari Religious Affairs Officer in Turkish Embassy
March 12, 1981 Teheran 1. Guard Turkish Embassy
March 12, 1981 Teheran 2. Guard Turkish Embassy
June 9, 1981 Geneva Mehmet Yerguz Secretary in the Turkish Embassy
September 24, 1981 Paris Cemal Ozen Security Guard in the Turkish Embassy
January 28, 1982 Los Angeles Kemal Arikan Turkish Consul General
May 4, 1982 Cambridge, MA Orhan Gunduz Turkish Honorary Consul
June 7, 1982 Lisbon Erkut Akbay Administrative Attache in Turkish Embassy
June 7, 1982 Lisbon Nadide Akbay Administrative Attache's wife
July 1, 1982 Rotterdam Kemalettin Demirer Turkish Consul General
August 27, 1982 Ottawa Atilla Altikat Turkish Military Attache
September 9, 1982 Burgaz, Bulgaria Bora Suelkan Administrative Attache in Turkish Embassy
March 9, 1983 Belgrade Galip Balkar Turkish Ambassador
July 14, 1983 Brussels Dursun Aksoy Administrative Attache in Turkish Embassy
July 27, 1983 Lisbon Cahide Mihcioglu Deputy Turkish Consul General's wife
April 28, 1984 Teheran Isik Yonder Turkish Embassy employee's husband
June 20, 1984 Vienna Erdogan Ozen Assistant Labour and Social Affairs Counsellor in Turkish Embassy
November 19, 1984 Vienna Enver Ergun Deputy Director, Centre for Social Development and Humanitarian Affairs

And more than i care to list.


A very civilsed approach by so called genocide victims.
 

[brother]

If you read the names you will notice they had no issue what so ever with killing the wives, daughters etc. of diplomats etc. :(

[stavrizatz]

What msg do you try to give from this post Brother?

[Xenos 2Fan]

stavrizatz wrote: What msg do you try to give from this post Brother?


Probably that they are a bunch of murderous scumbags.

[brother]

stavrizatz wrote: What msg do you try to give from this post Brother?

The message i am trying to give is they practised murder during the Ottoman collapse killing nearly 500,000 Turks and Kurds villagers and if that was not enough they then formed 2 terrorist organisations that not only kill and assasinate leading Turkish figures but their famalies too and not forgeting they have invaded and occupied Azeri lands and made over one million people refuges and killed, tortured and made many more just go missing and then they want the world to accept an unproven so called genocide and sympathise with them.

I just find that a very hard and bitter pill to swallow.

[cannedmoose]

No smoke without fire... in both directions... but I really don't see what stating these crimes achieves...

If these murders were committed by Armenian terrorists, then they are terrorists and deserve to be punished... but you can't say that 'Armenians' killed these people because that is labelling an entire nation as terrorists.

It would be like me saying that those in the IRA who murdered 3,000 innocent men, women and children over the past 30 years acted for all the people of Ireland, and that the attrocities committed by a small group of self-interested murderers somehow serves to denigrate what happened to millions during the Potato Famine.

I hope you'll see the parallels and realise that such logic is nonsensical. Blind nationalist beliefs serve no-one in the modern world, not least Cypriots who need to escape from this way of thinking.

[brother]

cannedmoose wrote: No smoke without fire... in both directions... but I really don't see what stating these crimes achieves...

If these murders were committed by Armenian terrorists, then they are terrorists and deserve to be punished... but you can't say that 'Armenians' killed these people because that is labelling an entire nation as terrorists.

It would be like me saying that those in the IRA who murdered 3,000 innocent men, women and children over the past 30 years acted for all the people of Ireland, and that the attrocities committed by a small group of self-interested murderers somehow serves to denigrate what happened to millions during the Potato Famine.

I hope you'll see the parallels and realise that such logic is nonsensical. Blind nationalist beliefs serve no-one in the modern world, not least Cypriots who need to escape from this way of thinking.

I do not dispute what you have said but like the Armenians i felt the need to tell the world what has been done in their name to innocent Turks and their famalies and that is my aim or do you think i should just pretend it never happened and only acknowledge their suffering.

Like the 3000 victims that you talk that were victim to the IRA should we never talk about them and just pretend it never happened and if you suddenly find a propoganda campaign by the Irish aimed at showing the English as murderers who never suffered in their hands would you stay silent at the innocent deaths they commited in the name of the Irish..

[Dream_Merchant]

not that I am a particular supporter of the above groups or their actions, but do notice that all the above mentioned victims were diplomatic missionaries of Turkey, hence sworn supporters of the denialist Turkish propaganda. It is clear that it was Turkey itself rather then the specific individuals that were the target of these attacks, and however unfortunate it is, these individuals acted as the face of Turkey.. hence got the 'slap'.

[Dream_Merchant]

brother wrote:

Like the 3000 victims that you talk that were victim to the IRA should we never talk about them and just pretend it never happened and if you suddenly find a propoganda campaign by the Irish aimed at showing the English as murderers who never suffered in their hands would you stay silent at the innocent deaths they commited in the name of the Irish..


So go ahead, and admit that the Ottoman Turks killed over one and a half million Armenians in mass slaughter, and then we can go discuss about terrorist activities. But until you insist that 'nothing happened', a lot of people will simply keep trying to balance the tally.

[brother]

Dream_Merchant wrote: not that I am a particular supporter of the above groups or their actions, but do notice that all the above mentioned victims were diplomatic missionaries of Turkey, hence sworn supporters of the denialist Turkish propaganda. It is clear that it was Turkey itself rather then the specific individuals that were the target of these attacks, and however unfortunate it is, these individuals acted as the face of Turkey.. hence got the 'slap'.


What a distasteful and downright arrogant way to view the death of assasinated people by murderers wether they were diplomats or not and their innocent wives, daughters and sons etc....shame on you.

[brother]

Dream_Merchant wrote: brother wrote:

Like the 3000 victims that you talk that were victim to the IRA should we never talk about them and just pretend it never happened and if you suddenly find a propoganda campaign by the Irish aimed at showing the English as murderers who never suffered in their hands would you stay silent at the innocent deaths they commited in the name of the Irish..


So go ahead, and admit that the Ottoman Turks killed over one and a half million Armenians in mass slaughter, and then we can go discuss about terrorist activities. But until you insist that 'nothing happened', a lot of people will simply keep trying to balance the tally.

Balance the tally :shock: :shock: That is just disgraceful but with that logic that means you accept the Azeris to come into Armenia and illegally occupy its lands and etnically cleanse one million people to 'balance the tally' as put by you.

[Dream_Merchant]

Tell me something.. do you have difficulty with English or are you too blinded by your hate to read anything? I EXPLICITLY stated that I do not support such activities or organisations. So before including me with your generalisations do try and read what I write.

Now coming to your reactionist 'statement'. As you very well stated, there is no effective tie between the Armenian genocide and the Karabakh issue, except possibly the fact that in both cases an external force attempted, and in the first case succeeded, to ethnically cleanse indigenous Armenians from their historical lands.

So, before you go on with your paranoia that Armenians are trying to 'up the tally' in respect to the Genocide with the Azeri case, let me correct you. It is not with Azeri's that those people are 'upping' the tally, but with Turks.. and as I said, until Turkey recognises the sins of its past, these people will continue to think like that.

Besides, why do you think I put the quotation marks? Even if all the Turks were wiped from the face of the earth, it wouldn't help even a single bit in the Armenian case, there would be noone to recognise it. I do not beleive that it is with violence and terror that this issue can be resolved, and instead through humility and wisdom.

EDIT: Which I might very well add, that the Turkish side is acutely lacking!

[brother]

Dream_Merchant wrote: Tell me something.. do you have difficulty with English or are you too blinded by your hate to read anything? I EXPLICITLY stated that I do not support such activities or organisations. So before including me with your generalisations do try and read what I write.

Now coming to your reactionist 'statement'. As you very well stated, there is no effective tie between the Armenian genocide and the Karabakh issue, except possibly the fact that in both cases an external force attempted, and in the first case succeeded, to ethnically cleanse indigenous Armenians from their historical lands.

So, before you go on with your paranoia that Armenians are trying to 'up the tally' in respect to the Genocide with the Azeri case, let me correct you. It is not with Azeri's that those people are 'upping' the tally, but with Turks.. and as I said, until Turkey recognises the sins of its past, these people will continue to think like that.

Besides, why do you think I put the quotation marks? Even if all the Turks were wiped from the face of the earth, it wouldn't help even a single bit in the Armenian case, there would be noone to recognise it. I do not beleive that it is with violence and terror that this issue can be resolved, and instead through humility and wisdom.

No i have no difficulty with enlish but do you read what you write???

Quote: and however unfortunate it is, these individuals acted as the face of Turkey.. hence got the 'slap'.

That is what annoys me, i will never see ANY justification for anyone to murder the innocent because such and such, as a cypriot i saw first hand what murderous terrorists do and believe me the state suffers very little in comparison to your average citizen hence why i never have and never will believe in wars or terrorists as viable options or justifiable for any reason what so ever.

But your last sentance above;

Quote: I do not beleive that it is with violence and terror that this issue can be resolved, and instead through humility and wisdom

Shows me we are both on the same page which makes me extremely happy. :D

[Dream_Merchant]

Quote: believe me the state suffers very little in comparison to your average citizen

I don't need to believe you, of course.. thats another reason why I am not a proponent of terror, and another reason why I don't think its effective in its 'goal'.

Quote: That is what annoys me, i will never see ANY justification for anyone to murder the innocent because such and such


So.. the cul-de-sac. Admit the genocide happened.

Of course there is no justification, but there are reasons.

[brother]

Dream_Merchant wrote: Quote: believe me the state suffers very little in comparison to your average citizen

I don't need to believe you, of course.. thats another reason why I am not a proponent of terror, and another reason why I don't think its effective in its 'goal'.

Quote: That is what annoys me, i will never see ANY justification for anyone to murder the innocent because such and such


So.. the cul-de-sac. Admit the genocide happened.

Of course there is no justification, but there are reasons.

Admit to something that lacks complete proof is just not right and not debatable.

I support the idea that an International committee of historians must be formed that has Turkish and Armenians as members that will investigate in an unbiased way and whatever they come up with is what i will accept not allegations backed with flimsy at best proof.