www.talkcyprus.org

[repulsewarrior]

Ah...freedom of speech, not a European idea, but an idea which is embraced by Europeans.

Whatever you want to think about the chapfallen guy, he speaks his mind forthrightly.

Chapfallen, bored already, well that is not the issue. Our freedom, and an end to subjugation is an issue. Thus, dialog is an issue, and the attempt to learn as much as to exchange.

Bad breath is a result of having less of the good things in your being and more of the sloth which comes from indilgence. Beside brushing your teeth once in a while try to fill yourself with sustinance. Blah, blah, yawn yawn, you are a smelly guy unless you stink. The vomit is always colourful, always a good show, but it is always washed away, by the better person, without a trace.

So reward us with a little insight, with which you are able, leave the crap behind, show some value, or be slime.

PS keep up, the good work. Personally I think alot of what you say is supportable, as well as making sense... but I expect more from a mind like yours.

[Chapfallen]

Freedom of speech and democracy are European values from Ancient Greece.

About my aggression I’m like a mirror and I’m responding to the other person with his own view, maybe this is a stable personality problem but this is me we are all human with our imperfectness.

As about the Turkey accession I’m one of the biggest supporters and I’m expecting some things from some people and I will not be glad if they fail me.

About the bored issue is what I’m loosing much time when I’m involved to politic or religion conversation and my mind keep making circles for this issues even when I’m not online and I’m loosing valuable time of my work since I’m a programmer and I’ve all day my mind stuffed with info and calculations.

So this is goodbye and I hope what when I’ll finish some projects that I’ve to do we will speak again.

[Dream_Merchant]

Xenos 2Fan wrote:
The EU has set forth certain rules and regulations that "DICTATE" how Turkey can join the club. Human rights, freedom of speech etc.. etc.. and other shortcommings that "EUROPEANS" feel that Turkey shows.

So whats the problem here? Human rights or freedom of speech? Or rules and regulations?

Only a dictator that deals with absolutes can not appreciate these things.


Quote: The only "Deep-Rooted Problem" that Turks have is that people like you try to do a hatchet job on anything Turkish.

Of course I try to do a hatchet job on anything Turkish which is seriously flawed in the context of the civilised world. If you consider the Turkish elements I am referring to as 'normal', I suggest you give up your pursuit of EU entry and prepare yourself for something radically different. And its clear that the Turks overall have some serious cultural problems, otherwise they wouldnt be counting their friends on their fingertips and having serious condemnation in international forums that deal with humane issues.


Quote: Could not have said it better myself. Again, after 500 years of rape, pillage, war and death you suddenly wrote the book on civilisation?

At least Europeans appear to have learned something from two world wars and a cold war... what did Turkey learn? To be a steadfast ally of the anglophone world so it can do whatever it wants?

Quote: Since they can't it means we can do whatever we want, and heck we can do worse since they are saying that they are better than us.. after all we are Turkish and we Turkish have always had a rough side"

Quote: There you go again with your generalisations. Let me tell you something. Turkey is a big country with a large population. The EU talks have only just begun. You expect Turkey to change overnight? Reforms are going to take time and they will happen especially when know-it-alls like yourself would stop harrassing us at every corner with your superiority complex.

I don't expect Turkey to change overnight. On the contrary I find it very difficult to see how Turkey can change. There are far too many 'deep-rooted' issues which have become integrated in the Turkish way of life. Changing or recalling these would shatter the very country's foundations.

On the contrary, I think it is Turkey that thinks that changes are going to happen overnight and EU entry the next morning and is so darn impatient that nothing is happening as it 'sees'. The exception is that what Turkey sees as changes and what the EU sees as changes are very different.

Quote: You don't know shit. Just because you have nice vocabulary doesn't make an expert on international affairs nor an Einstein on different cultures.

At least I don't swear in an effort to get my point through. Yes, I sometimes sound insulting, I know that. And I admit sometimes thats not a very good strategy because it aggrevates the average guy who I don't have a problem with. But if the reader takes it so personally, than it means either I have struck home a point or the other guy is simply being a reactionist.

Quote: You want me to tell you what are European values? Why don't you tell yourself what are European values? Or don't you know what are European values?

Quote: Let me refresh your memory Sparky:
Rape
Pillage
War
Killings of millions
Colonisation
Genocide

So from what you wrote there, it would appear that you don't know what I am talking about. However, I will not allow myself to accuse you of an inability to realise what are the European values I am talking about, on the assumption that you actually do, but do not admit in the realisation that in doing so you will be giving me 'debate points'.

Quote: Turkey is playing it the way they should. Have you ever been to Turkey? Have you spoken to Turks?

No, Turkey is playing it the way it wants. And no, I have not been to Turkey.. I feel rather insecure about the fact that Turkey does not recognise my country and I am not sure how far my comfort if not safety can be guaranteed given my ethnic background. There are many other places I would visit beforehand, but sometime I do intend in going to Turkey. But, I have had considerable contact with Turks and I would say almost all of them were quite pleasant.

[/quote] Or are you one of those idiots that forms their opinions on things simply by reading about them?[/quote]

I prefer to read before forming an opinion and if you think people forming opinions after reading about issues are idiots.. then maybe I was wrong with my previous assumption. Of course, real life experience is invaluable, but it can be equally skewed if not more sometimes. Because personal experiences are by definition subjective in their nature. But why am I telling you this.. I don't know.



Quote: Perhaps in your own mind but it is offensive to some of us...
The only horse excrement around here is in your head... I doubt you and I will find anything "in between". You're a hypocrite.

No Sir, you are the offender and the hypocrite!

[Xenos 2Fan]

Quote: Dream_Merchant wrote: Xenos 2Fan wrote:
The EU has set forth certain rules and regulations that "DICTATE" how Turkey can join the club. Human rights, freedom of speech etc.. etc.. and other shortcommings that "EUROPEANS" feel that Turkey shows.

So whats the problem here? Human rights or freedom of speech? Or rules and regulations?

Only a dictator that deals with absolutes can not appreciate these things.

I am sorry. The functional combination of words here should have been "EUROPEANS FEEL" with an exclamation on the word "FEEL". All I will say is that "Europeans" form their perspective on Turks that live in their respective countries. No? Like you, most have not been to Turkey and they do not know anything about the average Turk. Especially about those who are educated and lead an average life of an educated person.


Quote: Quote: The only "Deep-Rooted Problem" that Turks have is that people like you try to do a hatchet job on anything Turkish.

Of course I try to do a hatchet job on anything Turkish which is seriously flawed in the context of the civilised world. If you consider the Turkish elements I am referring to as 'normal', I suggest you give up your pursuit of EU entry and prepare yourself for something radically different. And its clear that the Turks overall have some serious cultural problems, otherwise they wouldnt be counting their friends on their fingertips and having serious condemnation in international forums that deal with humane issues.

Of course you do a hatchet job on anything Turkish. Again you don't know shit about us except from what you heard from your ancestors and you continue to read what you want to read and thus believe what you want to believe. In that case you would be right. We would appear seriously flawed as opposed to your precious European culture.

If I am not mistaking you are of Armenian stock so enough said. Instead of telling me that "We are Turks and we have had a rough ride" you should reflect about what you said. Sounds amazingly much like what you have been feeding the world about your people's condition.

Quote:
Quote: Could not have said it better myself. Again, after 500 years of rape, pillage, war and death you suddenly wrote the book on civilisation?

At least Europeans appear to have learned something from two world wars and a cold war... what did Turkey learn? To be a steadfast ally of the anglophone world so it can do whatever it wants?
Quote: Since they can't it means we can do whatever we want, and heck we can do worse since they are saying that they are better than us.. after all we are Turkish and we Turkish have always had a rough side"

What have they learned???????? One thing is for certain. They have learned is that they think that they can manipulate others, they have acted on it and they do a fine job of it. They have learned that they have become wealthy off of other's misery and now they try to hide it behind a facade of their version of "civilization" without any regard to their own history. The only Europeans that show a concern presently for their past deeds are the English.

Again your argument that he Turks have had a rough time of it sounds much like the BS you and your diaspora have been spreading. over the world. "Admit that the Armenian Genocide happened or face the consequences". If someone speaks against this notion they can be thrown in jail in France. Is this your version of European freedom of speech? I chuckle at some of your arguments.

Quote: Quote: There you go again with your generalisations. Let me tell you something. Turkey is a big country with a large population. The EU talks have only just begun. You expect Turkey to change overnight? Reforms are going to take time and they will happen especially when know-it-alls like yourself would stop harrassing us at every corner with your superiority complex.

I don't expect Turkey to change overnight. On the contrary I find it very difficult to see how Turkey can change. There are far too many 'deep-rooted' issues which have become integrated in the Turkish way of life. Changing or recalling these would shatter the very country's foundations.

Again you generalise. You still don't know shit about us yet you claim that our foundations would be shattered. You're a joke.

Quote: On the contrary, I think it is Turkey that thinks that changes are going to happen overnight and EU entry the next morning and is so darn impatient that nothing is happening as it 'sees'. The exception is that what Turkey sees as changes and what the EU sees as changes are very different.

No! Turks are much more pragmatic about heir future than you think. We have a clear grip on reality and what our relative future holds for us as far as the EU is concerned. Most of us know that it is going to be long, difficult journey for us to reach the goal of joining the EU....and most of us are prepared for the worst of it. We will eventually get in much to your aggravation but then you will still have a whipping boy in Europe.

The way that Europe is dealing with Turkey is not in a fair manner. Everyone knows that you keep moving goal posts. Moreover, everyone knows that you keep putting unfair additional pressures on us that border on illegality.

Quote: Quote: You don't know shit. Just because you have nice vocabulary doesn't make an expert on international affairs nor an Einstein on different cultures.

At least I don't swear in an effort to get my point through. Yes, I sometimes sound insulting, I know that. And I admit sometimes thats not a very good strategy because it aggrevates the average guy who I don't have a problem with. But if the reader takes it so personally, than it means either I have struck home a point or the other guy is simply being a reactionist.

Fine. Don't swear. Good for you. I don't see how some swearing makes someone less of a human. Perhaps it's only part of their personality or their syntax. It doesn't bother me. Maybe you should swear sometimes. It may get rid some of that angst you harbor. But thanks for admitting that you are an asshole sometimes.

Of course some people take your comments personally because you mean to insult. You do a good job of it though by taking cheap stabs.

Quote: Quote: You want me to tell you what are European values? Why don't you tell yourself what are European values? Or don't you know what are European values?

Quote: Let me refresh your memory Sparky:
Rape
Pillage
War
Killings of millions
Colonisation
Genocide

So from what you wrote there, it would appear that you don't know what I am talking about. However, I will not allow myself to accuse you of an inability to realise what are the European values I am talking about, on the assumption that you actually do, but do not admit in the realisation that in doing so you will be giving me 'debate points'.

Okay...now we know why you are here. You want to score "debating points". You on your way to politics? Congrats! You would do well with Tpap. :lol: :lol:

Quote: Quote: Turkey is playing it the way they should. Have you ever been to Turkey? Have you spoken to Turks?

No, Turkey is playing it the way it wants. And no, I have not been to Turkey.. I feel rather insecure about the fact that Turkey does not recognise my country and I am not sure how far my comfort if not safety can be guaranteed given my ethnic background. There are many other places I would visit beforehand, but sometime I do intend in going to Turkey. But, I have had considerable contact with Turks and I would say almost all of them were quite pleasant.

You still don't know shit. You really think that your ethnic background affects the average Turk? You think that we wait for Armenians or Greeks to come to our country so we can do harm to you? Do you know how stupid that sounds?

While there are some that wish you harm there is a gigantic majority of humans that are inately good and well meaning. Ther have been many times that I sat with Greeks and had a few drinks. We are not the blood-thirsty people that you and some others make us out to be?

Quote: Or are you one of those idiots that forms their opinions on things simply by reading about them?

I prefer to read before forming an opinion and if you think people forming opinions after reading about issues are idiots.. then maybe I was wrong with my previous assumption. Of course, real life experience is invaluable, but it can be equally skewed if not more sometimes. Because personal experiences are by definition subjective in their nature. But why am I telling you this.. I don't know.[/quote]

More of your cute vacabulary. I take acception to your last sentence. You think I'm thick? There is nothing better than personal experience with other cultures. No matter how subjective or objective as you may perceive them to be. When I went to Greece it changed my attitude. Sadly there are people like you and Kifeas on these forums that form their opinions on that bullshit they are taught and on what they read.



Quote: Perhaps in your own mind but it is offensive to some of us...
The only horse excrement around here is in your head... I doubt you and I will find anything "in between". You're a hypocrite.

No Sir, you are the offender and the hypocrite![/quote]

No Sparky...you still remain the offender.

[Kifeas]

city wrote: Quote: The European Parliament has adopted a report warning that the pace of reform in Turkey has slowed, jeopardising Ankara's EU membership bid.

But MEPs dropped a clause demanding that Turkey recognise as "genocide" the mass killings of Armenians in 1915.

Turkey maintains that the Armenians were casualties of turmoil as the Ottoman empire crumbled. Armenians say up to 1.5 million died in a "genocide".

The non-binding report said Turkey had failed to ensure freedom of expression............

Quote: Cyprus deadlock

The MEPs also called on Turkey to recognise the Republic of Cyprus and lift its embargo on Cypriot ships and planes, saying continued failure to do so "will have serious implications for the [EU] negotiation process and could even bring it to a halt". ...........

full article from BBC News

It seems that in Turkey there is a complete lack of political culture, resulting in the making of its entire political life to revolve around populist methods and rhetoric, and every time elections approach (actually years before them,) the country is paralyzed and is unable to take any decision on any critical matter. The political life in this country is so corrupted, that all it matters to the various power centers and ideological platforms is how to retain or regain power in their hands. As a result, they engage in purely populist practices and rhetoric -nationalism being a prime one such premise, for the sole purpose of surviving politically and regardless of how detrimental and costly their actions and rhetoric may end up being to the long-term interests of the country. The Turkish public is kept always in a stage of complete confusion, unable to judge what is right or wrong, good or bad, and unable to properly evaluate who tells them the truth and who doesn’t. It seems that this is how the Army wants the political life of the country to be rolling, obviously because this makes their jobs easier, and their role better consolidated.

Turkey is a country in a stage of permanent socio-political paralytic shock, and it seems that only electroshock can wake her up and save her!

The most likely scenario is for the EU member states to proceed to the freezing of Turkey’s accession process for at least 1 year, so that elections in Turkey will take place, and a new government is formed, and then, provided it has fulfilled its pending commitments and obligations regarding internal reforms and the implementation of the Ankara agreement in the case of Cyprus, to reopen the process by the beginning of 2008.

[zan]

Of course Greece just walked into the EU with all that was needed in place. :lol:





Quote: How times have changed. Greece was a basket case when it entered the then European Community in 1981. It was propelled in, partly under American pressure (sounds familiar?), before many people, including the European Commission, thought it was ready. During the first three years of membership, an army of Commission officials shuttled between Brussels and Athens to coax, cajole and bully the Greek administration into implementing EC policies and giving up centuries-old Levantine practices and habits.

The shock therapy succeeded, although it took time: by the mid-1980s Jacques Delors was still musing out loud that Greek membership had been a mistake.

If the treatment worked for Greece, can it work for the newcomers? The answer is: probably, up to a point. The trouble is that Commission president Romano Prodi does not have enough armies at his disposal to handle the equivalent of ten recalcitrant Greeces. It will be much better if the newcomers are able to emulate the self-help and self-discipline approach adopted by Simitis and his socialist government since 1996. It has been even more crucial to Greece’s success.

This is not to say that Greece has become a star pupil. It has been less astute in using EU membership (and money) to accelerate economic development than the other poor countries, Portugal and Ireland, with which it is inevitably compared. The nation’s wealth – measured in terms of GDP – is still less than 70 percent of the EU average. Greece is among those EU countries most frequently taken to task by the Commission for failing to implement, or for not implementing correctly, EU directives. It can show the same mean streak as other governments in defending national interests – as over Cyprus.


http://www.erabrussels.be/information/editorials/greece_pace.htm

[De_La_Soul]

Zan, is that another piece of text you kept in your 'Turkish Propaganda' favourites folder? :lol:

[Khan]

Still no mosque in Athens DLS?

[zan]

De_La_Soul wrote: Zan, is that another piece of text you kept in your 'Turkish Propaganda' favourites folder? :lol:


You keep playing with your marbles and reading your Greek propoganda De-A-soul.

You seem to have done some reading since you posted here as Main source at least. Shame it has all been from Greek sites. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What you need to do is look up the definition of "Argument" and then look up the word "Reasonable", and then have another go. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[zan]

Oh! dear Oh! dear. :roll:


The single European currency, the euro, was officially adopted by 11 member states in 1999. Greece, which took longer to meet convergence criteria, joined two years later
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/country_profiles/3498746.stm


Of the older EU members, Spain, Greece, Portugal and Ireland also traditionally end up getting more back than they paid in. Spain's "positive balance" in 2005 was in fact bigger than that of the 10 new member states put together. In future Spain will do less well from the EU budget, and the newer member states - the poorer ones, at least - will do better.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2266385.stm

[De_La_Soul]

Islam opressed Athens for almost 500 years. You think its so easy to put a mosque up?

Besides, being a Turk, I wouldnt be bringing up religious freedoms if I was you.

[De_La_Soul]

Quote: You keep playing with your marbles and reading your Greek propoganda De-A-soul.

You seem to have done some reading since you posted here as Main source at least. Shame it has all been from Greek sites.

What you need to do is look up the definition of "Argument" and then look up the word "Reasonable", and then have another go.

What Greek sites have I been looking at? lol...you tell me.

...and whats your defenition of argument? cut and paste anything from the internet that sounds anti-Greek?

[Khan]

De_La_Soul wrote: Islam opressed Athens for almost 500 years. You think its so easy to put a mosque up?

Besides, being a Turk, I wouldnt be bringing up religious freedoms if I was you.

yawn.

[De_La_Soul]

haha..wats the point of that question? You trying to compare human rights abuses between Greece and Turkey?? lol

[zan]

De_La_Soul wrote: Quote: You keep playing with your marbles and reading your Greek propoganda De-A-soul.

You seem to have done some reading since you posted here as Main source at least. Shame it has all been from Greek sites.

What you need to do is look up the definition of "Argument" and then look up the word "Reasonable", and then have another go.

What Greek sites have I been looking at? lol...you tell me.

...and whats your defenition of argument? cut and paste anything from the internet that sounds anti-Greek?

I may be lazy but I am right. What do you want an essay. :lol: :lol:

As for your argument, as Main source, you used to just rant and rave and not offer anything as proof. I have noticed that you are a little bit more informed lately but in the wrong direction which you obviously got from Greek propaganda sites. You are as transparent as a transparent thing with extra transparency. You still have your militant :lol: attitude though :lol: :lol: .