www.talkcyprus.org

city · Joined: 15 Aug 2005 Posts: 3373 Location: Larnaca area

Quote: The European Parliament has adopted a report warning that the pace of reform in Turkey has slowed, jeopardising Ankara's EU membership bid.

But MEPs dropped a clause demanding that Turkey recognise as "genocide" the mass killings of Armenians in 1915.

Turkey maintains that the Armenians were casualties of turmoil as the Ottoman empire crumbled. Armenians say up to 1.5 million died in a "genocide".

The non-binding report said Turkey had failed to ensure freedom of expression............

Quote: Cyprus deadlock

The MEPs also called on Turkey to recognise the Republic of Cyprus and lift its embargo on Cypriot ships and planes, saying continued failure to do so "will have serious implications for the [EU] negotiation process and could even bring it to a halt". ...........

full article from BBC News

cypezokyli · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 2344

turkey managed to loose even traditional allies. even the liberals and socialists were split.

what turkey has to do is clear, and the sooner it starts with those reforms the better. especially for turkey itself

Mete · Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 1150 Location: Boston

I really do not see how Armenian genocide is at all related to Turkey's EU membership. Social, economic reforms, I'm all for it. Solution to Cyprus problem, I'm all for it but how the hell that something happenned 90 years ago is relevant to Turkey's EU membership.

repulsewarrior · Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 1767 Location: Canada

http://euobserver.com/9/22517

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2006/09/27/afx3048521.html

two more...from Google

depurple · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 2879 Location: Australia

Did this surprise anyone: NOT ME!
I have been saying this for years: Being part of the EU MEANS cleaning up the past: Or any doubts with the past:
METE:
It all has to do with saying SORRY: I just hope they also do this with the Greek Cypriot and the Turkish Cypriot one day:
What I would really like is getting these clowns to go the same!!!!!!
Greece
Turkey
Britain
The USA
Russia
to say SORRY to the poor Cypriots who they have manipulated for so many years and then sat back and reaped in all the benefits:
cheers

Mete · Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 1150 Location: Boston

depurple wrote:
METE:
It all has to do with saying SORRY: I just hope they also do this with the Greek Cypriot and the Turkish Cypriot one day:

It would be nice if the Armenian issue was not such a taboo in Turkey and it would be nice if there was an apology if there was indeed a genocide. However, the issue is why is this a requirement for Turkey's EU entry? Is there a requirement in the EU that says that every EU candidate country has to accept the history the way the EU accepts? Or is there a rule that says no country can join the EU without apologising all the crimes of the past? If so, maybe France should start apologizing to Algeria? Or the British should apologize for their crimes?

I'm not trying to cover up to what happenned Armenians in Ottoman times. I just don't see how this can be a requirement to Turkey's EU entry. I think it's one of those excuses to keep Turkey out of Europe.

depurple · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 2879 Location: Australia

Mete:
Sometime is isn't fair: What do you mean sometime: Most of the time:
Turkey should weigh up the whole situation with the EU: PUT it on a scale of benefits to Turkey:
HOW beneficial is the EU going to be to Turkeys future:
Think about it:
IS it going to be that good for Turkey: Will Turkey reap in many benefits and fiances, investment ect:
OK then think what will happen to a Turkey without the EU: The EU will close up very soon and will not want to deal with outsiders:
That is what I have been told:
NOW weigh up what consequences Turkey will have IF they do the following:(If the Military lets them)

1: Recognize The Armenians Genocide: (Say sorry and maybe pay some compensation: Who knows?)
Like Germany to the Jews:

2: Do concrete steps to solve Cyprus:( Try and Unite Cyprus NOT divided it in to to countries)
Like Indonesia to East Timor:
3: Address the minority ethnic groups like the Kurds and others in Turkey:
Like most EU countries: I said most:

4: Freedom of Speech and Religion: Like most EU counties and I said most:

So it is hard BUT Turkey wants to join the EU and many in the EU do not trust or believe Turkey call it what you want SO Turkey must prove it is willing to change for the better or for the worst who knows:

What I would also like to see after a Cyprus solution is that the Turkish Cypriot take the Republic of Cyprus to the EU court over all the injustices to them during the 50s, 60s and 70s:
If we are going to clean up everything lets start at HOME!
cheers

Mete · Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 1150 Location: Boston

As I said before, I'm all for freedom of speech, democracy, rule of law, solution to Cyprus problem because these are issues related to TODAY but I still don't see how something that happenned 90 years ago is relevant today.

cypezokyli · Joined: 20 Dec 2005 Posts: 2344

Mete wrote: I really do not see how Armenian genocide is at all related to Turkey's EU membership. Social, economic reforms, I'm all for it. Solution to Cyprus problem, I'm all for it but how the hell that something happenned 90 years ago is relevant to Turkey's EU membership.

the armenian problem has been removed from the obligations. it was amended . obviously the armenian lobby was not strong enough :wink:

and had cyprus been not a member most probably it wouldnt be there either.

when it comes to the reforms, turkey in general up to now tried to do them the very last minute, in the hope of getting something in return. despite the fact that they were conditions. or making a whole show out of one clause of the reform (i.e. adultery), while the rest of the "reform" continued to supress the press. imo, games like that can work for some time, but not always.

dont get me wrong, i really do hope that turkey enters the EU, but i do believe that it has to change its tactis this time

Viewpoint · Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 971 Location: Lefkosa/Nicosia

Mete wrote: As I said before, I'm all for freedom of speech, democracy, rule of law, solution to Cyprus problem because these are issues related to TODAY but I still don't see how something that happenned 90 years ago is relevant today.

Mete you have many Greek Cypriots arguing points going back 500 years and that all our problems are down to the Ottomans.

Imo 1960 is the best starting point becuase thats when we have the opportunity to build a united Cyprus and well all know what we did. :wink:

Birkibrisli · Joined: 29 Aug 2005 Posts: 1409 Location: Australia

I read in the online Turkish press that the EU report was largely organised and voted for by the socialist block of the EU parliament,which I believe is the biggest block.
There was lots of horsetrading apparently led by Greek and Cypriot delegates,which assured that the Armenian clause was voted down in exchange for strong words on Turkey's obligations towards Cyprus,and in exchange for leaving out any mention of the EU responsibility towards lifting the isolation of the Turkish Cypriots...

Another defeat of the Turkish diplomacy,and another win by the Greek and Cypriot lobby...Things are not looking good for the die hard partitionist I'm afraid...

depurple · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 2879 Location: Australia

VP get off Mete back: We are in a democracy and respect his views as I do yours and his:
Birk:
Nothing to with left wing and that wing and bargain: Hey that all rhymes:
Its the TOO MANY DOUBTS about Turkey that the EU want to Clean UP:
IS TURKEY really EU material: What role has the army got: Can they work with the neighbor Cyprus a EU country:
Simple EU question BUT hard for Turkey to swallow:
Erodgan has to please the EU Type Turks and also the NON EU type Turks and ALSO the Military:
So he is doing a juggling act:
BUT how long will this last?
In the long run there can only be one question:
EU or Not EU that is the question????????
cheers

SP · Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 265 Location: Girne

Birkibrisli wrote:

Another defeat of the Turkish diplomacy,and another win by the Greek and Cypriot lobby...Things are not looking good for the die hard partitionist I'm afraid...

Quite the contrary in my opinion. As long as Turkey has a glimmer of a hope in becoming an EU member then there is scope for a political solution to the Cyprob.

If Turkey's EU accession is "derailed" I believe the status quo, ie partition, will remain indefinitely.

SP · Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 265 Location: Girne

Oops, sorry Birkibrisli

I re-read your post and it occurred to me you may have been being sarcastic.

:oops:

depurple · Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 2879 Location: Australia

Mate Turkey is going to a 1000 New warnings IF it doesn't start to think 100% like a EUROPEAN!
So these new warning DON'T surprise me and don't tell me it surprises you?
There is a famous saying that applies to Turkey!

You can fool some of the people some of the time BUT not ALL the people all the time!

cheers & good luck!
Where my Robin Hood outfit?