www.talkcyprus.org

[depurple]

There is a cloud of doubt over my head about Turkey being able to join the EU: Take a good hard think about it: Look at it with a level of common sense and reality:
I have a few questions about Turkey and the EU and maybe you can answer some on my queries?

1: How much power does the military have in Turkey: Can they dictate to the government what to do? Can they put there foot down? Can they take over one day like in Thailand and Pakistan?

2: Will Turkey ever be able to give at the Kurds and the Armenians living in Turkey freedom of speech, religion and cultural rights?

3:Will Turkey be able to look at Cyprus as an EU country on equal par with all the together EU countries: Cyprus is in and the EU already and Turkey is trying to get in: Instead of addressing what the EU has said to Turkey about the ports ect Turkey throws its OWN demands to the EU:

4: Freedom of Religion? Will Turkey be able to see Christians and other religious people able to preach to their gods without fear?

5: Freedom of speech: Talking other languages and even opening schools to Greeks and Armenians and Kurds?

6: Homosexuality?

You see most of the above are EU criteria and that is what is puzzling me: WILL Turkey be able to agree to all these:
turkey can not say we will fix all these issues after we join:
They cant even say we have already addressed these issues because it is all BS:
AND the main problem is IF Turkey does want to address all these issues what will the Military reaction be? The Military has stated many times we will NOT jeopardize Turkey for the EU: So what does that mean?
So really will Turkey be able to address all these everyday normal things that the EU already addresses:
Let me know?
I am not asking about countries already in the EU I am asking HOW on Earth will Turkey be able to address these issues in ORDER to be able to join the EU:
Crikey!

[clive of peyia]

Despite all the antics and posturing going on, Turkey is desperate to join the EU. It has to join otherwise it will go under to the Taliban rule eventually. This is also the South's bargaining chip - it can afford to wait and sit on its hands for it is in the EU anyway.

Turkey will hold the North as hostages to fortune and will dump the North if that what it takes to gain full membership of the EU. Remember negotiations are being done by politicians who would sell their grandmothers, not caring citizens.

The South will accept the North as it is, refugees and all to gain unity again. Just like Germany did with the former communist GDR.

As a 64 year old Englishman, What do I know about it?

I was here in 1960. Again in 1974, before many of you were even born, and I have now lived here for the last five years. I have sufficient knowledge of Greek to be able to converse with the wise sages in the coffee shops.

Well, that's the considered opinion of us old guys in Peyia.

Clive

[Alexios]

clive of peyia wrote: Despite all the antics and posturing going on, Turkey is desperate to join the EU. It has to join otherwise it will go under to the Taliban rule eventually. This is also the South's bargaining chip - it can afford to wait and sit on its hands for it is in the EU anyway.

Turkey will hold the North as hostages to fortune and will dump the North if that what it takes to gain full membership of the EU. Remember negotiations are being done by politicians who would sell their grandmothers, not caring citizens.

The South will accept the North as it is, refugees and all to gain unity again. Just like Germany did with the former communist GDR.

As a 64 year old Englishman, What do I know about it?

I was here in 1960. Again in 1974, before many of you were even born, and I have now lived here for the last five years. I have sufficient knowledge of Greek to be able to converse with the wise sages in the coffee shops.

Well, that's the considered opinion of us old guys in Peyia.

Clive

Simple , wise words from an "old" man...

[Kifeas]

clive of peyia wrote: I was here in 1960. Again in 1974, before many of you were even born, and I have now lived here for the last five years. I have sufficient knowledge of Greek to be able to converse with the wise sages in the coffee shops.


Since you was here in 1960 and in 1974, it would be very interesting and useful to hear some (as many) of your experiences and impressions regarding Cyprus! Under what circumstances you were here, where was you based, how did you come across and related to the then unfolding events, etc, etc?

[zan]

DP Do you really want asnswers to those questions? It sounds to me you have already made up your mind.

By the way I have a project for you over on the Entertainment section.

[Dream_Merchant]

It has been shown that mankind's ability for innovation is only bound by the limits of its collective individuals' imagination. Hence, whether Turkey will join the EU or not is not the interesting question as such, but more to when and how Turkey will join the EU.

I do not want to sound strictly definitive, indeed the EU as we know it might evolve beyond the boundaries of our current understanding, but given present conditions which dominate both local as well as global politics, the joining of Turkey is an eventuality if not an inevitablity.

However, there is also another axiom whereby this eventuality is restricted. There must be the will. And the will must be bilateral. And not only that, but also unfaltering as it is easy to be derailed from a position to a different position whereas return to the first position in a moment displaced in the future is no longer dynamicaly possible.

There are several obstacles and hurdles on the way, some which the EU has set before the path, some which Turkey itself has set in its own path. This I find critical to the success of these talks, as both Turkey and the EU have to accept and understand what they expect from each other, in order to have a clear vision of their joint goal. This is the true spirit of the word 'EU harmonisation'.

[depurple]

Clive good posting keep them coming:
Zan what Turkey did with its latest writer proves that it is on the right track:
Personally I want Turkey to join only because it will be monitored by the EU and that will help all the people of Turkey and Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus: The EU will be like Big Brother keeping an eye on the politicians and the army:
Every time I have a problem with the Republic of Cyprus I get the EU to intervene: The Republic of Cyprus don't like it but that the way it is mate:
Turkey in the EU will also help the Kurds, Armenians and other minorities and also make Turkey a real multi culture GEM in the EU:
I can not wait for the Day when the Greek Cypriot can invest in Turkey and vise versa and the Turkish Cypriot get equality and security:
Zan going to entertainment section:Cheers

[Bullika]

i dont really care about whether turkey joins the eu or not, but turkish citizens like all world citizens deserve human rights regardless.

[depurple]

BUT remember one thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
TIME IS RUNNING OUT!
The question should be Does the Military want Turkey to be part of the EU!
cheers!

[boomerang]

Quote: Commander vows military will never bow to EU

Saturday, September 30, 2006

‘I feel sorry for these poor wretches who are preparing their own end. These groups will either leave Turkey or be drowned in the sea of Anatolia,’ says Naval Forces Commander Adm. Karahanoğlu

ANKARA - Turkish Daily News


The Turkish military will never agree to concessions in the name of harmonization with European Union standards, the commander of the naval forces said yesterday, joining a wave of criticism by the military.

“It should be known clearly that the Turkish Armed Forces (TSK) can never turn a blind eye to the basic values of the Republic of Turkey set out in the Constitution for the sake of EU ideals and the process of harmonization with the EU. It will not allow the weakening of these values, either,” Adm. Yener Karahanoğlu told a ceremony at the opening of the school year at a naval academy in Istanbul.

He said the military would guard these values even more forcefully if the EU demands involve concessions on “our honor and security and foreign policy interests.”

“In this perspective, attempts to turn the process of harmonization with the EU into an area where hostile policies on the part of certain countries and groups are being implemented should never be allowed to proceed,” he added.

Karahanoğlu's remarks were the strongest criticism against the EU since Hansjoerg Kretschmer, the EU's envoy in Ankara, criticized the military's habit of expressing an opinion on almost every issue.

Since then, Land Forces Commander Gen. İlker Başbuğ has defended the military's right to speak up in defense of nationalism and secularism.

On Thursday, another senior military official, Air Forces Commander Gen. Faruk Cömert, warned against “different approaches that feed [Islamic] reactionaries and terrorism,” saying such approaches would lead Turkey to disaster. “If the roof collapses, an outcome where everyone is buried under it might be unavoidable,” he said.

Chief of General Staff Gen. Yaşar Büyükanıt has already said he would deliver his response speech to Kretschmer's criticism on Oct. 2.

Turkey, an EU candidate since 1999, has carried out numerous reforms in the name of bringing its laws closer with EU standards, some of which have trimmed the powers of the military.

Turkey began EU entry talks last year but is not expected to join for many years. The European Commission is expected to criticize Ankara's reform record and the continued political influence of the military in its annual report in November.

Karahanoğlu said domestic and foreign groups bent on destroying the armed forces were stepping up their efforts. “I feel sorry for these poor wretches who are preparing their own end. These groups will either leave Turkey or will be drowned in the sea of Anatolia,” Karahanoğlu said.

Nationalists have long accused the EU and its backers at home of aiming to break up Turkey under the guise of promoting the rights of cultural and religious minorities.

Karahanoğlu's remarks, like those of other top commanders earlier in the week, appeared targeted at the government of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan as well.

“In a Turkey where some forces are allowed to continue using the screen of democracy to pursue their dark aims, giving concessions on secularism and the unitary structure of the state will cause harm that would be impossible to repair,” Karahanoğlu said.

“I am of the opinion that seeing opposition to secularism grow in force and secularism slowly being degraded should make us think,” he went on to say, although he appeared confident that the military could deal with the situation if necessary. “This unending strength of ours is sufficient to overcome every kind of threat,” he said.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=55448



I don't know about you DP, but I think that Turkey's aspirarations might be short lived...

[Birkibrisli]

Something is not quite right in the state of Turkish affairs.
This guy,the naval commander,is the third general to speak out in this manner over the past week or so.As it says in the article above the Chief of Staff is to speak tomorrow (october 2nd) at the opening of some military school or other.But the remarkable thing is General Buyukanit's speech will be broadcast live by more than one TV and radio station.
At this delicate stage of EU reports and negotiations one would've thought these guys would keep a low profile...If I were PM Erdogan I would be worried...very worried indeed. :? :? :?