www.talkcyprus.org

[repulsewarrior]

I would like to focus on the military defense of Turkey, and ending the threat that this State senses from the island of Cyprus.

The proposal is a Treaty of Defense, necessarily requirng the recognition of the Republic of Cyprus, and its sovereignty over all the island.

The reform of this Republic's Constitution is desired by the government of the day. However its resolve to maintain for the vast majority, a Grecophonic nature, must be balanced with the desire of Turkish Cypriots for self determination. Divided and isolated from each other, now for almost fifty years, their lives lack free movement, association, and expression. Much of this is unnatural, and there is the great hope that human behaviour is for social-exchange, and that Denktash will be marked as a hero, maybe two hundred years from now, because he took the first step and opened the border.

Turkey has nothing to fear from these people, united and free from subjugation, to direct their own lives toward prosperity. Cypriots are the people who lead in socialisation, for millenia. They are a people who are inclusive, they are peace loving, and they are welcoming. Cyprus, its vital culture, to survive in this Modern world, must be self governing, because strategically it cannot belong to anyone. This gift the world has promised to them. Turkey's foreign affairs, has this issue, and others to resolve.

A Treaty today provides the most powerful regional social-economy, exchange, with the largest maritime service, their neighbour, both profiting, each of the partners gaining long term security, stability, and mutual defense. Part of the comprehensive package, toward ending the Cyprus problem, it is a premise that provides a venue, for an international relation, with Turkey as the benefactor from this esteem.

Cypriots can identify themselves as Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot if and only if the Republic of Cyprus, and its government are free from linguistic (ethnic) bias. As an identity, this reformation must reflect their proportional representation and their equality as founding partners, these peoples. A bi-cameral legislature will provide for this need. As individuals, and as Europeans they can expect a government which acts in defense of their individuality and equality.

Greek Cypriots can look back without despair, having retained power over their own lives, if they themselves control a government, as their Turkish counterpart, requiring three governments, so that their relations as Cypriots, externally are satisfied by one Government, meeting the norms of a higher authority, and internally, having two Governments to represent these people as communities, providing the services these communities desire, sovereign in their territory, as they please.

I think the greatest fear for Turkish Cypriots, is the possibility of being overwhelmed by the "Greekness" of the vast majority of people living on the island. This will soon be replaced by the fear of so many other Peoples, who will find this little island of value to them personally. Ironically both societies will suffer the same fear unless there are suitable provisions made to accommodate having minorities with separate needs, by their respective National Assemblies.

In 1974, I remember a map, in the newspaper, the island, the line which divides it in two, and little circles scattered here and there, over all its territory, Makarios and Denktash in one of their meetings, during those heady days. Recently, I read a quote from Mr. Papoudopoulos, (sorry for the spelling) the current President of the Republic, from his youth, describing the population of Turkish Cypriots warmly, as a people whose population was scattered like sand, tossed over a map so that the grains would cover its whole surface. Demographic maps, I have seen, prove this sentiment and the reasoning of their proposals.

I do not propose to replicate the past. However, these notions, indeed resolve much of the anxiety, which comes from the Right of Return, and resettlement, for so many, because it has its historical basis.

"Cantons", satellite territories, would add to the balance which would be required so that each of the counterparts, Greek and Turkish, has a majority of people who see themselves this way, within their territory for their self-determination. They provide a setting in which all people can demonstrate their commitment toward Basic Human Rights. New communities will be founded, and in others people will return to their homes, as communities. None will lack service as they prefer, nearby; none will lack a choice for their representation, as they desire. Each gain in the diversity this will add to their respective cultures. Most importantly, the reciprocation of respect by these two adversaries, sustains a benefit, which allows for the inclusiveness our Age requires from each one of us as human beings.

Turkey, requires a military presence here. The Brits have a right that is acquired, and NATO, (as well as some of its parts) desire the same as the UN, soldiers here, who now has, as well, established offices to direct their military campaigns elsewhere. I fear the nukes, and this island's supermilitarisation, but it offers great opportunity as well.

Finally, I would like to add, it is for Turkey to find the resolve that ends these political issues, ending the prejudice it causes to its own people, and to be in harmony with the rest of the world's States; a Republic of Cyprus, and all its people Cypriots, must exist, without which there is no peace.

[depurple]

RW:
There is no need for a treaty:
Put Turkey in the EU and Put Cyprus in NATO:
Presto end of story!
cheers

[Dream_Merchant]

Quote: "Cantons", satellite territories, would add to the balance which would be required so that each of the counterparts, Greek and Turkish, has a majority of people who see themselves this way, within their territory for their self-determination.

There are this kind of exclaves and enclaves, what you refer to as "Cantons", and they cause only problems even between states where there are little differences. In the best case they would be problem 'hot-spots' and in the worst case ghettos surrounded by rampant racial discrimination.

Excuse my draconic judgment on your approach, but you dont put a sheep in the midst of a pack of wolves, in the hopes that the sheep will preach them by word and example into becoming vegetarian.

[depurple]

DM what would happen IF there is no armies and NO weapons or any type AT ALL on Cyprus? Only EU police:
Where will the threat come from?
cheers

[repulsewarrior]

However, Dream_Merchant, never again will it be possible to have only one of the communities encircled, feeling threatened. Neither society will be sustainable ignoring the other. Both, having "enclaves", will have the responsibility to reciprocate acts of goodwill, as both will be obligated to respect the rights, and the needs, of their respective minorities.

As a proposition, it is not "one size fits all", although it may be a valuble precedant in other conflicts (like Isreal). We live on an island, which relatively speaking, is very small. To meet the criteria, on which our identity was established, there must exist among Cyprus' people free movement, association, and expression.

As a jurisdictional border the "Green Line" must become transparent, without military preoccupations for its defense, as it is in the rest of the world where there exists, neighbours, of democratically elected governments.

I propose, this geographic reconfiguration will serve to promote great prosperity, and it will provide diversity, so that, for each of these societies, they gain their vitality from a greater array of choices, to choose from.

[Dream_Merchant]

repulsewarrior wrote: Both, having "enclaves", will have the responsibility to reciprocate acts of goodwill, as both will be obligated to respect the rights, and the needs, of their respective minorities.

Allow me to paraphrase that:

Both, having "enclaves", will have the opportunity to reciprocate acts of malice, as both will be feeling the urge to avenge the greivances, and demands, of their respective minorities.

No weapons doesn't work much either. The greatest weapon is the human mind honed to hatred and pain. What do you suggest we do? Lobotomise everyone who doesn't like each other?

Although there is some merit to this discussion and I do not want to sound categorically negative about it, but there are huge problems that first need to be overcome for such a thing to work, and to work succesfuly.

[repulsewarrior]

I do not support your premise, that by nature, the people of Cyprus would choose to enter into any engagement with brutal malice.

Quote: Both, having "enclaves", will have the opportunity to reciprocate acts of malice, as both will be feeling the urge to avenge the greivances, and demands, of their respective minorities.

If this were true. then murder and mahem, after thirty years, would be the norm, as is the case in several neighbouring states where there are international interlocutors, that are in an (a kind of) intercommunal conflict.

I think that the flow of citizens who take advantage of all the island's parts will grow. They will want to realise their desires for convenience as well. Therefore, beyond what is a "normal" choice, by European standards, they will find this "cantonal" system offers them the opportunity to benefit from having, "a place", away from "home" that is "their own".

The result being, most likely, that there will be a first language, a second language, and other languages, as custom, in each "zone". For the respective minority, a setting where the inverse is the case, somewhere not far.

There will be demonstrations of hatred by individuals, but we cannot generalise, like the racists, who promote their exclusivity. I think that in Cyprus, like anywhere else people believe that living is done with respect, that there is a Rule of Law, and that all people are equal.

As a part of the "package", in terms of defense, Turkey gains a foothold that will be longstanding and sustainable over the whole island. Cynically speaking, enclaves of Grecophones in the north provides for a great deal of leverage when or if Turkey's restraint would be called for.

[Dream_Merchant]

Of course I am not generalising. But you have to admit that these sort of enclaves will be like magnets to the more radical and polarising aspects of both communities. I am not denying that they can also act as sources of intercommunal understanding and cultural exchange, but you know...

" The Turkish mahalla got torched today by cocktail molotovs thrown from a passing car with unmarked plates"
" Last night an elderly Greek couple was threatened in front of their house by youths who drove away with their motorcycles. "

newspaper headlines.

[Dhavlos]

were those headlines recent? or from pre74?

[repulsewarrior]

Dream_Merchant, your sense of humanity is very low. Do you have neighbours, and from the people you know, would you or them commit yourselfs to such acts of hatred?

Last week a person walked into a college, here in Montreal, and injured twenty, killing one (most cruelly), before ending his own life. Do you think that this kind of sadness surrounds you?

You may not have read the posts I wrote about my experience on the subject, but I know that this is not the normal case. Although many speak in a manner which exagerates the facts, expressing the emotions the speaker feels so strongly, but for the most part, in a time of need people do nothing, few may seek to be helpful, but fewer still seek to bring more harm.

Again, I repeat myself, we are not in a conflict as it is bloody close by. The Turkish State has the opportunity to resolve this issue, their defense, with a population which remains obstinate but rational for now over thirty years. You forget the Kurds, and the issue of Isreal and Palestine, as well as the shameful torturing of people in other countries nearby. None of this has happened here, and that says alot.

So... I don't know if you are a Turkish Cypriot or a Turk or a Grecophone of some kind, but it really doesn't matter. Wouldn't you agree that all people are the same, having similar desires and the same needs?