www.talkcyprus.org

[Dream_Merchant]

Ok .. I don't know if this has been tried before. If not, we can give it a go and see what comes out of it.


I think it is vital for all Cypriots to do two things if we can start discussing the solution to the Cyprus problem. The first is clearing to ourselves, what each of us want most from 'our side's' point of view. The second thing is, for all of us to clearly see what the 'other side' wants.

I think if we manage to outline these two issues, we have a stronger chance of doing something constructive.

Hence, I would like to call upon all forum members to make a simple post with a 'wish', what is to them most important.. what troubles them most that they don't have in regards to our island, so that others can see it.

So, all you have to do is say what you would want to see in an eventual solution. And please, not vague general things, I am talking about concrete issues. Also, don't go writing 4 paragraph speeches and counterspeeches, neither 1 line sloganeering vandalism. I also urge forum members to write what they honestly want, and not 'answer' other people's wants or demands, however 'unrealistic' or 'scandalous' they may seem.

I am curious to the outcome and once I have also reflected I will also write down what I want most.

Hope this works.

[Kifeas]

I will not only write what I personally wish, but also what I firmly believe the official Greek Cypriot leadership and the majority of the members of the Greek Cypriot community wish from a solution.

We wish and aim for a solution that will create a peaceful, prosperous, developed country for the whole of its people -Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots and all others alike. We wish a solution that will create a truly independed and sovereign country that will be a bridge of peace for the entire region, and that it will be able to play a contributing and important role as a member of the EU and the international community.

We wish and aim for a solution that will establish a country in the whole of which every one of its citizens –Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots and all others alike, will equally have and equally enjoy security and safety, their cultural identity and religion and all their human and political rights equally respected and safeguarded; and in which it will not matter and there will be no discrimination or prejudice to the fact that they belong to anyone of the cultural or sub-cultural groups that compose or constitute its people.

[100%cypriot]

Kifeas wrote: I will not only write what I personally wish, but also what I firmly believe the official Greek Cypriot leadership and the majority of the members of the Greek Cypriot community wish from a solution.

We wish and aim for a solution that will create a peaceful, prosperous, developed country for the whole of its people -Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots and all others alike. We wish a solution that will create a truly independed and sovereign country that will be a bridge of peace for the entire region, and that it will be able to play a contributing and important role as a member of the EU and the international community.

We wish and aim for a solution that will establish a country in the whole of which every one of its citizens –Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots and all others alike, will equally have and equally enjoy security and safety, their cultural identity and religion and all their human and political rights equally respected and safeguarded; and in which it will not matter and there will be no discrimination or prejudice to the fact that they belong to anyone of the cultural or sub-cultural groups that compose or constitute its people.

My Sentiments exactly Kifeas !

[Kifeas]

100%cypriot wrote: Kifeas wrote: I will not only write what I personally wish, but also what I firmly believe the official Greek Cypriot leadership and the majority of the members of the Greek Cypriot community wish from a solution.

We wish and aim for a solution that will create a peaceful, prosperous, developed country for the whole of its people -Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots and all others alike. We wish a solution that will create a truly independed and sovereign country that will be a bridge of peace for the entire region, and that it will be able to play a contributing and important role as a member of the EU and the international community.

We wish and aim for a solution that will establish a country in the whole of which every one of its citizens –Greek Cypriots, Turkish Cypriots and all others alike, will equally have and equally enjoy security and safety, their cultural identity and religion and all their human and political rights equally respected and safeguarded; and in which it will not matter and there will be no discrimination or prejudice to the fact that they belong to anyone of the cultural or sub-cultural groups that compose or constitute its people.

My Sentiments exactly Kifeas !

Thank you very much 100%Cypriot for agreeing with the above! However, I am sorry to say that this is not exactly what the leadership of your community wishes and aims, and as evidence to it, you will see how few if any of the other Turkish Cypriots in the forum will agree with the above, and how many more will not agree and will instead avoid expressing their opinion.

And even those few that may partially or reluctantly agree, will also come up with one hundred different preposterous explanations, excuses and arguments so that they will try to convince the rest of us why we should not have the above principles as the most basic and essential ingredients of a solution. Wait and you will see what I mean!

[100%cypriot]

i am a great believer of principles and allways follow high principles but sometimes against our own wishes those principles are not followed by the powers that be. In the Politics of Cyprus that is the pure example !

[Dhavlos]

Ok, personally, i would wish to see what kifeas said.

Also, i would like a highly decentralised unitary state. No BBF as i think it encourges differnce. Also, active promotion by the government of 'similarities(the 'cypriotness') rather than the 'greek/turkishness' of the two communities.

Also, a single education, for ALL cypriots.

thats all i can think of (plus it is a very good idea DM!)

[erolz]

I want a unifed Cyprus where it is not possible for a numericaly dominant Greek Cypriot community to (once again) try and impose it's purely Greek Cypriot / Greek will on a Turkish Cypriot community that is opposed to such imposition.

One where if this does once again happen everyone will know exactly what the consequences will be.

What I do not want is 'fine words' that are not backed up with any real comittment or just a 'mask' for creating a Greek Cypriot Cyprus run for Greek Cypriot by Greek Cypriot and where the Turkish Cypriot community is nothing more than a barely tolerated minority within this Greek Cypriot / Greek state.

[Kifeas]

Dhavlos wrote: Ok, personally, i would wish to see what kifeas said.

Also, i would like a highly decentralised unitary state. No BBF as i think it encourges differnce. Also, active promotion by the government of 'similarities(the 'cypriotness') rather than the 'greek/turkishness' of the two communities.

Also, a single education, for ALL cypriots.

thats all i can think of (plus it is a very good idea DM!)

Dhavlos, the above outlined basic principles may fairly well be followed and observed both under a unitary state and under a federative state concept. They may also be fairly well observed in both a decentralized and a centralized type of governance, due to the fact that Cyprus is not a huge country by all aspects and measures for a centralized type governance to potentially create significant inefficiencies.

Furthermore and lastly, retaining each and every ethnic or cultural group or sub-group its distinctive cultural identity is not by itself a threat or an obstacle to the formation and maintenance of a unifying Cypriot identity roof. Many countries in the world do have similar situations, like for example the US, Australia, etc, in which people to retain and even enhance their sub-cultural identities, but still feel, express and practice their “nation /state” citizenship identity, without any conflict between the two. The answer to Cypriotism is not through a leveling out of each ones distinctive cultural identity, but instead such a reality should be seen as an enriching characteristic of it.

[Dhavlos]

just a couple of points;

when i say 'unitary', i mean 'not BBF(or any kind of division into two sections of the island)'. i am not saying the Turkish Cypriots should just be a minority in a Greek Cypriot dominant state.

When i say 'promote cypriotism' i have taken on what kifeas says, and what i mean is rather than 'cut off' the greek and turkish parts of our identity, i think that everyone should be able to bask in it. Everyone should be able to speak greek and turkish, to learn the cultures and traditions of the other side, the hopes, the worries. hey, maybe we may see a resurgence of linobambaki lol! Also, jsut simple wording can do thins, so rather than 'the greedy Turkish Cypriots/ the greedy Greek Cypriots' maybe 'our brothers' ...if that makes sense?!

Anyway, rahter than hijack DMs thread, keep to topic. Or make a new one to discuss further issues.

[pg]

I (also) agree with Kifeas points outlined in his first posts.

I believe it is best attainable of a politician in order to be elected must attract voters in both communities. if we have that as a basic force, most other parts will fall in place by themselves.

[depurple]

Kifreas your solution is simple:
1: Remove all the weapons and soldiers from Cyprus:
2: Remove all the Greek & Turkish Flags AND Everyone living in Cyprus Unite under one Cyprus Flag:
3: New Agreed National Anthem:
4: Freedom of Speech, religion and language:
5: Equality in the government:
PRESTO Instant Country just add Common sense and piss off ancestral ties!
cheers

[Viewpoint]

erolz wrote: I want a unifed Cyprus where it is not possible for a numericaly dominant Greek Cypriot community to (once again) try and impose it's purely Greek Cypriot / Greek will on a Turkish Cypriot community that is opposed to such imposition.

One where if this does once again happen everyone will know exactly what the consequences will be.

What I do not want is 'fine words' that are not backed up with any real comittment or just a 'mask' for creating a Greek Cypriot Cyprus run for Greek Cypriot by Greek Cypriot and where the Turkish Cypriot community is nothing more than a barely tolerated minority within this Greek Cypriot / Greek state.

Exactly, well said.

[100%cypriot]

depurple wrote: Kifreas your solution is simple:
1: Remove all the weapons and soldiers from Cyprus:
2: Remove all the Greek & Turkish Flags AND Everyone living in Cyprus Unite under one Cyprus Flag:
3: New Agreed National Anthem:
4: Freedom of Speech, religion and language:
5: Equality in the government:
PRESTO Instant Country just add Common sense and piss off ancestral ties!
cheers

Nice idea :lol:

[Kifeas]

I want a unified Cyprus where it is not possible for a numerically smaller Turkish Cypriot community to (once again) try to use its disproportionate constitutional privileges in order to paralyse (or blackmail to do so) the whole state, or to (once again) try to hold hostages the 82% of the country’s people, in order to render the state’s government ineffective so that it will use it as an excuse to call for its nullification and dismantling, for the sake of (once again) promoting and forwarding its purely Turkish Cypriot /Turkish separatist agendas.

I also want a unified Cyprus in which the Turkish Cypriot community will not have the possibility to (once again) systematically conspire with another foreign power (Turkey) in order to use ambiguously defined unilateral “intervention rights” for the purpose of promoting and forwarding purely Turkish Cypriot /Turkish national expansionist aims and objectives. I want a unified Cyprus in which no foreign country (such as Turkey) that evidently did not and does not respect international law and the UN Charter, to (once again) be able to assume to be having unilateral military or otherwise interventional rights into Cyprus, another sovereign and independed country, and blackmail it with the use of such assumed “rights” and its military might, whenever it unilaterally feels there is an opportunity to do so.

One where if any of the above does take place again, everyone will know exactly what the consequences will be!

[repulsewarrior]

well said erolz, by contract this is an element with which everyone has difficulty, so I grant what seems to be negativity is correct; there should be a consequence that everyone is clear about.

...and anyone who is reasonable sees the value in what Kifeas said...

However the geographical context of the island will not remain the same. Therefore my wish is the creation of about twenty "enclaves" (I have taken to liking the word) scattered, like jewels across the island, so that new settlements of Turkish Cypriots will grow in the south, as it will be possible for Greek Cypriots to return as communities, without disturbing the fabric of the culture that surrounds them.

Politically, I would like to see a bi-cameral parliament and two other governments of the communitys' choosing for their representation.

Both these acts combined will provide a basis of equality between the founding partners, and it will support free movement, free association, and free expression.