www.talkcyprus.org

[The Cypriot]

I had some air and thought about the following as something we might work towards in resolving the Cyprus issue and, at the same time, helping with Turkey's EU accession.

The EU and Turkey, demonstrating their mutual desire for partnership, to work together to guarantee the rights of Turkish Cypriots, under the 1960 constitution - amended, where necessary, to enshrine EU rights and freedoms. This arrangement to continue until such time as Turkey accedes to the EU. Talat to become vice-president.

Turkey's army to withdraw in stages, to be replaced by EU security forces, until appropriate civil structures are established.

The UK to give up land from its sovereign basis, in accordance with the Annan Plan.

Turkey's military to be given a base - perhaps to be run in partnership with the British - in the north of the island. The British to share facilities with Turkey's military in Agrodiri and Dhegelia.

All property issues, settler issues and other outstanding issues, to be resolved in accordance with EU and international laws and in independent EU courts. A budget to be established by the EU, Turkey and the government of Cyprus, to compensate those deemed unable to return to their homes, or required to return to Turkey.

Or shall I just stick to writing novels...?

[Khan]

It would never happen Cypriot. If Turkey was a member of the EU, ok then we could talk. But for now, your moving the parameteres for a solution from the UN to the EU, which Greece and Greek Cypriot's have proved in using agaisnt Turkey. I do not trust them, and through the EU's own fault, neither does Turkey.

[The Cypriot]

Hang on though, Khan. Actually what I'm doing is moving the parameters back - to the one legal contract we have in place - and re-instating Turkey's guarantor rights over the whole island until she's safely harnessed to the EU.

I'm tying Cyprus's destiny with that of Turkey's EU destiny - and making it in both countries interests to work together to help realise that destiny.

[erolz]

The Cypriot wrote:
Or shall I just stick to writing novels...?

I think thats probably best - with all due respect.

Firstly do you really believe that a Greek Cypriot adminstration would support a return to the 'unfair, imposed unworkable consitution' of the 60's? The idea that the consitution - its bias towards the Turkish Cypriot community and its 'imposition' on Greek Cypriot was the 'cause' of the cyprus problem is a central part of the Greek Cypriot 'belief system' as far as I can see. Can Greek Cypriot really admit that such a consitution was in fact workable and viable and that it's collapse was down to the actions and the fault of CYPRIOTS (and therfore a numerical majority of Greek Cypriot). Do you think the Greek Cypriot community is capable of such a 'mental adjustment'?

What EU courts will sort out property and settler issues? The EU has no courts with such a mandate or competancy currently. The EU has European Court of Justice.

Quote: The ECJ is the Supreme Court of the European Union in matters over which it has competency (below), but no others - EU member states' supreme courts, or equivalent, are the highest courts in their respective jurisdictions in all other matters, as each nation state has its own soverign and different legal and jurisprudence systems.

It adjudicates on matters of interpretation of European law, most commonly:

Claims by the European Commission that a member state has not implemented a European Union Directive or other legal requirement.
Claims by member states that the European Commission has exceeded its authority.
References from national courts in the EU member states asking the ECJ questions about the meaning or validity of a particular piece of EC law.

Or do you mean the ECHR? This is not an organ of the EU and is only useable when all local recourse to remedy have been shown to have failed. The reality is there is not such 'super national' courts competent to deal with these issues. So we would end up with the Supreme court in Cyprus having to do so. But what supreme court. One as it exits today. One as it is mandated under the original 60's constiution? Or do you suggest that a entirely new form of supernational court be set up to handle these issues. Do you have any idea what that would entail or the resistance there would be in Cyprus from cypriots to resist such external interferance in their sovreign affairs?

Even if they are the pratcial problems of a return to a consitutional order that Greek Cypriot bemoned and sought to undermine from the moment they agrred it and that lead to deadlock colapse violence division and partition the first tinme round are monumental.

Then there are the changes that have been made to the consitution since 63 to consider and more importantly the changes to legisaltion that relate to the consitution made by an 'unconsitutional' all Greek Cypriot administration. Will all these changes be 'reset' in your invesaged return?

The Cypriot wrote:
I'm tying Cyprus's destiny with that of Turkey's EU destiny

The fact is Turkeys EU destiny is already tied to finding a solution to the Cyprus dispute. If an agreement over Cyprus can not be reach then Turkey can not enter the EU.

The 1960 consitution is dead. It was killed by Cypriots. It can not realisticaly be 'returned to' by those that killed it in the first place imho.

[The Cypriot]

Fair enough. Back to bi-bi's then.

[magikthrill]

The Cypriot wrote: I had some air and thought about the following as something we might work towards in resolving the Cyprus issue and, at the same time, helping with Turkey's EU accession.

The EU and Turkey, demonstrating their mutual desire for partnership, to work together to guarantee the rights of Turkish Cypriots, under the 1960 constitution - amended, where necessary, to enshrine EU rights and freedoms. This arrangement to continue until such time as Turkey accedes to the EU. Talat to become vice-president.

Turkey's army to withdraw in stages, to be replaced by EU security forces, until appropriate civil structures are established.

The UK to give up land from its sovereign basis, in accordance with the Annan Plan.

Turkey's military to be given a base - perhaps to be run in partnership with the British - in the north of the island. The British to share facilities with Turkey's military in Agrodiri and Dhegelia.

All property issues, settler issues and other outstanding issues, to be resolved in accordance with EU and international laws and in independent EU courts. A budget to be established by the EU, Turkey and the government of Cyprus, to compensate those deemed unable to return to their homes, or required to return to Turkey.

Or shall I just stick to writing novels...?

Turkish Cypriots don't agree to a federation that doesn't involve bizonality for seprate districts for a number of reasons.

One as erol put it is that the Greek Cypriots claimed the 1960 constitution to be unworkable (even though the first VP of Cyprus Dr. Küçük also claimed that taksim would only be acceptable before the constitution was drafted).

[repulsewarrior]

Again I will reiterate my point of view.

To be acceptable, as a betterment to our Human condition, the resolution will include these coniderations:

i.) recognition of the people who identify themselves as Turkish Cypriots.

ii.) the re-population of the island, with or without compensation.

Our unatural isolation from each other will end. The result must provide for free movement, free association, and for free expression. These values, with our liberation from subjugation are without compromise, and as a people our relationship will grow, when we imagaine that the brethren lost to us as heros who were sacrificed, victims of those whose sentiments are not sustained.

In a practical sense, the territory, and the identity their governments' represent, can remain unchanged, as it provides for its electorate. Only the addition of "Cantons" (or city-states), will allow for resettlement, (even on a small scale, about 43,000 people, under the strictest reglementation). However, with many of these "Jewels" scattered across our island we will be better able to provide for the diversity, and the vitalitity of our respective communities, while we profit from the development of these territories to provide for a population which is European and Occidental, as well as Asian, on the frontiers of Africa. Remember 'the population of Cyprus is twelve million' ?, in 200 years I will not be far off.

[pg]

I am afraid that in general the Turkish side can not find any acceptable legal ground to base a solution on.

[magikthrill]

In the sense that a solution will not involve the repatration of all refugees then obviously there isn't a "legal" ground.

nonetheless weve all seen how these int'l laws can prove quite useless as can be seen from around the world.

I think that a trizonal or multizonal federation would be a wonderful solution, one (or many) with greek cypriot control, one (or many) with turkish cypriot control and then one (or many) with federal control.

[pg]

I just struck me that even if we used Turkish law the refugees would go home... We just need to declare union with Turkey first...

[repulsewarrior]

Three govenments, one capital, is the basis of the treaty which gave us our sovereignty (limited, with guarantors) in 1960. If language and culture are considered to be internal matters of the State, then our central government will be free to focus on defending our rights as individuals in our representations externally. Therefore, it will be possible to have a Republic of Cyprus that has a credibility supported by all its citizens, if Greek Cypriots resolved to represent themselves with their own Assembly, mirroring the will of their Turkish counterparts.

Cantons will adjust the territorial concerns of the two communal states to provide for the growth of communities that are self sustaining, and prosperous. A central government to protect our individual rights and two national states to provide service to its communities will allow for the normalisation of our relationship with each other as individuals and as people.

Both states will be confronted with the power of its minorities, and in the future, being inclusive, the demands will be far more complex. Cantons offer the guarantee that neither of the two states will have their fabric threatened, moreso, for their people, a greater diversity of demands will grow.