www.talkcyprus.org

[s300]

I think Turkey needs to bury the refugee property once and for all. Its EU accession will take about 15-20 years in my prediction and accordingly the refugee property issue will be resolved through the commission

[Alexios]

erolz wrote: Alexios wrote: The connection between The Property Commission and the Annan Plan s300, is that the relative "Law" of which i have an english translation and on which the Commission operates is itself based almost entirely on the provisions of the Annan plan (regarding property matters). It will soon be published so you can verify this yourself...

Do you mean regarding the issue of if property is to be potentialy returnable or only compensatable ? For clearly in terms of compensation the comission is very different - annan plan with bonds essentialy paid for by the Greek Cypriot community (for Greek Cypriot losses and Turkish Cypriot community for Turkish Cypriot losses) vs the comission with cash settlement in full paid by Turkey. Also did not the Annan have some provisions relating for a return of 1/3 of peoples land ? Does the property comission have this 1/3 aspect in it too?

Could you scan and post the english translation of the comissions rules _ I for one would be most interested in seeing it.

Alexios wrote:
Having said the above, the question still stands. Even if this Commission does mean business, where is all the money going to come from?? And how long will the whole process take to satisfy thousands of applications if ever these are received? There is no doubt, Turkey is simply trying to buy time over a very grave matter for her...

The money is comming from the same place that money awarded for claims via the ECHR have come from. If Turkey can not afford claims made via the comission it cant afford them for claims via the ECHR either I guess ? How long would it take to satisfy the thousands of applicants via the ECHR? Would that be likely to be quicker or slower than via the property comission? Is Turkey buying time over the issue or trying to solve it once and for all - as far as it can be?

You will understand what i mean once you read the relevant "Law" soon to be published.

I agree that both ways of getting compensation face the same practical difficulties as far as money and time involved are concerned. I am sure however you can recognize the political and legal implication of having compensation imposed on Turkey by the ECHR viv a vis accepting the Commission as a remedial body.

[Alexios]

PS: I agree with what you imply.ie, that a final, agreed, and workable solution is the only way to avoid lengthy legal stalemates with huge practical problems.

[erolz]

Alexios wrote: PS: I agree with what you imply.ie, that a final, agreed, and workable solution is the only way to avoid lengthy legal stalemates with huge practical problems.

Actually I did not intend to show that implication. I do agree that in overall terms the best way to solve a poltical problem is via a political solution.

However I also welcome the comission in terms of what it does and means in terms of continued failure to agree a comprehensive solution. I welcome it for the personal 'closure' it can bring to indivdual Cypriots wanting and needing such closure on this issue. In more 'selfish' terms I welcome it should it prove that an agreed solution remains unobtainable any time soon. If such turns out to be the case, and I have to consider that possible (that an agreed solution remains unobtainable), then every piece of returned or compensated for Greek Cypriot land in the North helps our 'position' internationaly vs it not having been returned.

In many ways I see this as being progressive in similar terms to the border being opened. It may or may not increase our ability and mutual desire to find a comprehensive solution, but if it does or does not do this it is a positive thing within itself.

[Alexios]

I tend to see the whole thing in a different way.I am a refugee, i have property in the North for which i hold a recognized kocan and it is my basic human right to do exactly as i wish with it.I may take your advise as to the implications, for which i may or may not care.It is up to me to weigh the whole situation and up to me to decide the way i personally want, what to do with my property.The government,or whoever else may state its opinion which i may or may not follow!!!

[erolz]

I do not really disagree with anything you say above alexios. I think it is your right to choose to seek recovery or redress for loss (whichever you prefer) for your property in the north via the norths property comission or to not do so and wait for a comprehensive political solution, as you personaly choose.

I juts see the property comission in the north as a progressive and benefical thing. I beleieve this to be true if we do not prove able to find a comp settlement or if we do. Either way things are better with this comission than without it, both for indivdual cypriots (even if they choose not to use it, for choice is always better than no choice) and for the Turkish Cypriot community in the north as well - and they are increasingly better with every property retunred or compensated for. So to date this improvment is tiny - but it can only increas and never decrease. At least that how I see things in this reagrd currently.

[Alexios]

erolz wrote: for the Turkish Cypriot community in the north as well - and they are increasingly better with every property retunred or compensated for.

What do you mean??

[erolz]

Alexios wrote: erolz wrote: for the Turkish Cypriot community in the north as well - and they are increasingly better with every property retunred or compensated for.

What do you mean??

What do i mean by the first bit or the second bit ?

What I mean by the first bit (the property comission is good for Turkish Cypriot community) is that

1) it good for us 'phyclogicaly' to start returning and compensating Greek Cypriot for property lost in 74

2) it is good for us 'tacticaly' to do - taticaly in terms of showing that Greek Cypriot property loss was an 'effect' of the events of 74 and not the intent or reason for them

By the second part I mean that the amount of good (for Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot) is directly related to how many properties are dealt with by this mechanism. 3 is good. 30 is 10 times as good as 3. 300 is 10 times as good as 30. 3000 is ten times etc etc

[pg]

Alexios wrote:
I agree that both ways of getting compensation face the same practical difficulties as far as money and time involved are concerned. I am sure however you can recognize the political and legal implication of having compensation imposed on Turkey by the ECHR viv a vis accepting the Commission as a remedial body.

If anyone is not happy with the treatment given by the Turkish property commission, one can always appeal to the ECHR.